@Karlos
Quote:

Hmm, let's see. First of all, there were various changes required to make the driver work on Picasso96 and as things stand, there could be more to come. However, I am guessing that's not what you meant :)

Right ! I forget that os3.x version was CyberGraphics based. Even migrating from cgx to p96 not trivial taks imho.

Quote:

Access to the FIFO has been completely rewritten to be consistent throughout the driver and to reduce the amount of checks that need to be made.

That one imho the most important part of the "speedup" ?

Related to other changes - that all seems like just compeletely new driver, not just "fixes" for sure :)

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@kas1e

Well, the driver doesn't make direct calls to P96 or GGX in any case, there is a decent abstraction layer in there so from an API perspective it wasn't an issue. However, there are still some differences in the behaviour of the 2D driver that can catch out the unwary.

Quote:

That one imho the most important part of the "speedup" ?

Well, it helps, but the state optimised vertex fetch functions are probably more responsible. They basically remove a lot of conditional code from inner loops and move them way outside. Due to the number of different states that could be in effect at any moment, a naive implementation could have many conditional statements involved in retrieving just 1 vertex and formatting the data into something the chip expects.

A (presently) unique feature for this driver is that you can have different environment settings for different applications. This was the only way, for example, to get Wipeout2097 working as it did before the 4.2 driver introduced it's faked additive blend. The latter is essential for newer MiniGL titles but breaks some effects on the former. The only solution was to allow per-application driver "profiles". The main env vars are still in Envarc:Warp3D/Permedia2, but now you can also put a subdirectory in there with the same name as the executable you are trying to tweak the settings for and put a copy of each environment variable you want to set differently in there. If those are found, they will override the global settings. I guess it sounds more complicated than it is, it really is a simple thing to set up.

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@Karlos
congratulations, sounds pretty good even if it stays restricted to os4.x and permedia only. guess, os4 team has gained a valuable member.

@Karlos

Impressive work, karlos

We know that the main warp3D.library 4.2 suffering a lot of problems (like the AOS4 NG version) that cause slowndown.


- Have you been annoyed by the V 4.2 problems and your driver work with the original warp3D.library V4.2 really (and not a corrected version) ?


I said that because one AOS4 team programmer have little fixed warp3D.library (known and low speed problems surely only) end of last year that mean It's possible for the classic also to have an updated version of warp3D.library.


- On your side, you could, or allready, have made a list of problems for original warp3d.library and maybe even submit them to the AOS4zilla allready (or confirm the warp3d problem allready on the aos4zilla).


Of course, the main interest is to have a better warp3d library to allow programmer to release some of their ported game that are actually slow to be released (this is for waiting after gallium on aos4.2)

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@Karlos

Quote:

.. but I remember completing AB3D2 on the same A1200 and that surely ran less than 10fps at times.

You managed to finish AB3D2 -- The Killing Grounds? Wow! I was lost in same late level as it was simply to difficult to me to kill all these aliens Music wise and atmospheric, The Killing Grounds are still my favourite 3D-First-Person-Shooter (also, I'm playing not that much). And 10fps seems to little too me -- from my memory, it was at least 15fps! I wished I could buy it again for AOS4.


thanks for your work on Permidia2 driver and for the insights in its developement!

nexus

Last edited by nexus on 21-May-2011 at 08:43 AM.

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@Mrodfr

Quote:

Impressive work, karlos

Well, it's not finished yet and there are still bugs. All of this is mentioned in the included beta notes so I guess there's no harm in pointing them out. One bug that has been evading me for quite a while is that occasionally, textures get corrupted, especially in low video memory situations. Compared to most other supported 3D cards, the Permedia2 is almost always in a low memory situation so it crops up quite a lot.

Another bug is that at certain sizes (really affects windowed mode applications), the driver fails to clear the buffers properly or at other sizes fails to render primitives properly also. The cause of this bug has only recently been properly identified as it's not actually in W3D or the driver itself, but in the rtg driver.

The Permedia2 has some limitations that are a big problem for some titles. Firstly, it can't do hardware multitexturing at all and secondly it only has 2 supported blending modes, only one of which is genuine, the other is faked and requires some knowledge of how it works to exploit properly. Since most 3D applications for OS4 were written around Voodoo and Radeon based machines, the Permedia2 is often quite stretched by their requirements.

-edit-

@nexus
Quote:

You managed to finish AB3D2 -- The Killing Grounds? Wow! I was lost in same late level as it was simply to difficult to me to kill all these aliens Music wise and atmospheric, The Killing Grounds are still my favourite 3D-First-Person-Shooter (also, I'm playing not that much). And 10fps seems to little too me -- from my memory, it was at least 15fps!

Oh, I finished it on my 040 powered A1200. It was definitely a sub 10fps at times. Nevertheless, I too found it (and of course AB3D itself) to be among of my favourite games in the genre. More difficult than the game were probably the included editors, but I even had a go with those too:

http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/810/1_montage1_256.png
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/810/1_montage2_256.png

Last edited by Karlos on 21-May-2011 at 02:34 PM.

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it seems i may have a problem not sure yet,but i can't get a 3D display with OS4.1. works fine OS3.9 3D & workbench 3.9 & 4.1. no 3D with OS4.1,will try old Permedia 2 chip to see if this is the problem.

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@delshay

Some more information might be useful. What resolution and colour depth were you trying to use for 3D, for instance?

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @delshay Some more information might be useful. What resolution and colour depth were you trying to use for 3D, for instance?

i tryed OS4.x Quake 2 800x600 got some strange display,i think it maybe the permedia 2 will check again,note my permedia 2 is different so i will try the old Permedia 2 to see if this new version is the problem. will post back here of the outcome thanks.

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@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: I believe the best thing for well equipped classics will be the tons of OS4 specific software they will finally have access to (and even if you had 4.0 there are improvements and 4.1 exclusive software) great way to spark some life to the old ladies...

Great news!
Congratulations to all working Classics

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@delshay

If the version you are using requires W3D_MULTITEXTURE to work, then you are out of luck. There is no support for this whatsoever in the Permedia2 driver.

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@delshay

Any joy? The driver definitely should work.

See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xglmLuFZrjU

(not actually Q3 there, but some old W3D applications running concurrently)

Last edited by Karlos on 24-May-2011 at 09:52 PM.

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We now have 128MB SIMMs in stock for Blizzard PPC - ideal for using AmigaOS 4.1 Classic

Last edited by amigakit on 25-May-2011 at 12:35 PM.

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Today, we received a new batch of Hyperion games.

I have just successfully tried the OS 4.1 version of Freespace with AmigaOS 4.1 Classic on Amiga 1200

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@Deniil715

I'd forgotten about that question I asked ages ago!

The reason I jumped on Chris' comment was not because it was "internal" information, but because it had never been mentioned "internally". Maybe others knew about it, but it was news to me, which is why I wondered where Chris got the info. I thought that someone must have made it up, "reading between the lines", as it were.

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@Hyperionmp

Awesome! Is the Radeon 9200 family still the recommended best supported?

Would this adapter allow newer Radeon chips to be used in Classic with the drivers from Hans? (I'm waiting for confirmation it works well in 5V slots, thought it does show a universal PCI edge)

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@Moxee
Quote:

Didn't you say you were quitting Amiga?

That was Evert Carton who left. This was likely Ben Hermans posting.

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PCI network cards compatible with AmigaOS 4.1 Classic now available:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1041

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Removed. Reason, Off Topic in this thread.
You are free to post a news item about it though, or start a new thread. /Tomazkid

Last edited by tomazkid on 28-May-2011 at 12:50 AM.
Last edited by Stephen_Robinson on 26-May-2011 at 09:58 PM.

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We will shortly have compatible Radeon 9250 PCI in stock (within a week).

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