@pavlor

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Two more weeks = when it is done.

I wish people would shut up about this 'when it's done' nonsense. People here seem to use it like it's the 21st century Amiga slogan or something. It reeks of unprofessionalism and is the complete opposite of the Amiga Corp's way of operating i.e. getting Lorraine ready for the 1984 CES for example.

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@BigD

Quote:

I wish people would shut up about this 'when it's done' nonsense.

Quote:

People here seem to use it like it's the 21st century Amiga slogan or something.

Do you get meaning of this phrase is now taken as mockery of never ending promises and broken deadlines?

@pavlor

Please take it with a sense of humor, but I think you are 3 or 4 catch phrases behind the curve now.

RSN® (real soon now) was being used at least as early as 2004 here as a "2 more weeks" replacement.

Source

Later we saw "parallel development" indicating work on one platform would partially translate to another, making for swifter development overall.

Now we have "imminent" as in the case of the October announcement about pre-ordering X5000.

I'm sure I left out a few others. heh.

#6

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@number6

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Assuming he means Hyperion approval and not Amiga Inc. approval. heh.

That's just stupid, way should they comment on that, and way do you think a digital download, should exclude people with real hardware?

I think it be great if all versions of AmigaOS4.1 was available as digital download, what AmigaKit and Hyperion and x,y,z don't get, I don't want the DVD cover, I don't need it, I don't want to wait for upgrades to be shipped, and I don't want to wait for shipment, I don't won't pay for shipment.

I see no point in Hyperion paying for DVD to burned and printed, it’s a waste of money, the only time I look on the DVD is when install the OS, then its stored somewhere and forgotten.

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@number6

Quote:

Please take it with a sense of humor, but I think you are 3 or 4 catch phrases behind the curve now.

One learns something everyday. Noted.

@Fairdinkem

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Fairdinkem wrote: @thinkchip With the paid upgrade for OS4.1 FE and the very little features benefits added to it or differences between it and 4.1.6 I question how developed and nearing completion AmigaOS 4.2 is. I still can't bring myself to buy and upgrade my Pegasos 2 with AmigaOS 4.1 FE I mean really for the money they are asking what do I get, more of the same oh I can open tabs in shell which I hardly use yippee!

I agree. After all, "FE" is just the 4.1.8 release (4.1.7 was internal for some reason) renamed so that they could charge money for it again. And judging from posts online, it seems to have introduced some issues that weren't there in the 4.1.6 release. Maybe the "FE updated" (4.1.9?) version will cure?

Regarding 4.2, it's promised to introduce features that simply aren't possible on an Amiga compatible system, so I suppose it's quite far off! Especially so considering the development pace; the highlight of recent developments has been the new shell console, and that has been coming for, well, like forever. Maybe they should crawl properly before promising to walk (or to run)? There are lots of basic fundamental stuff to focus on before thinking about 4.2 features, like writing proper in-house gfx drivers and such. UI has lots to wish for as well. There is room for improvement in USB as well. Just to name a few things...

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @thread Maybe Hyperion could at least confirm what Trevor "thinks" in his blog: Quote: Now that Hyperion Hyperion Entertainment, in collaboration with Cloanto of Amiga Forever emulation fame, have made the Classic version of AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition available for purchase as digital download this should mean emulating AmigaOS 4.1 on an x86 PC has official approval.

Good point!

However, I fear that Hyperion's vague and poorly communicated stance regarding this issue is quite deliberate and intentional...

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @pavlor Quote: Two more weeks = when it is done. I wish people would shut up about this 'when it's done' nonsense. People here seem to use it like it's the 21st century Amiga slogan or something. It reeks of unprofessionalism and is the complete opposite of the Amiga Corp's way of operating i.e. getting Lorraine ready for the 1984 CES for example.

Thanks, man! That really made my day!

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I think it be great if all versions of AmigaOS4.1 was available as digital download, what AmigaKit and Hyperion and x,y,z don't get, I don't want the DVD cover, I don't need it, I don't want to wait for upgrades to be shipped, and I don't want to wait for shipment, I don't won't pay for shipment. I see no point in Hyperion paying for DVD to burned and printed, it’s a waste of money, the only time I look on the DVD is when install the OS, then its stored somewhere and forgotten.

Couldn't agree more! And make all the updates as proper ISO's as well, so you could always do a fresh install from the latest version without having to go through a hopeless chain of updates! And put the system files in some "OS4SYS:" folder and let the users files and changes reside in the SYS: to make updates easier!

In my humble opinion I do not think that OS4.2 will happen in the foreseeable future, certainly not before 2019-2020.... if ever. Development seems glacially slow and I do not think there is enough manpower and resources left for such a big project.

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For the moment it looks like amigaos4.2 is starving as working on drivers for new hw. For future you dont know what will happen. Maybe there comes more problems and then work is on drivers for yet another hardware. Anyway i hope we get os4.2 in near future :')

merry xmas :)

@BigD

Quote:

I wish people would shut up about this 'when it's done' nonsense.

It's not nonsense. There are four basic release strategies in the practice of software engineering:

1. Release on a predetermined date, regardless of the functional state of the software.

2. Release when the functional state of the software reaches a certain level, regardless of the date.

3. Start out with strategy 1 and revert to strategy 2 when it becomes apparent that the software is too buggy for general release.

4. Start out with strategy 2 and revert to strategy 1 when it becomes apparent that the software will not be viable unless released soon.

I've worked with project managers that seem to think 1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive, but as a group project managers are some of the most delusional people I have worked with. (Which is not to say that there aren't any good ones -- there are a few.)

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Will be intereting what will come first OS4.2 or MorphOS x64. But probably both will come later than sooner.

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@number6

I think he just means that it is possible to run OS4.1 on PCs now via AmigaForever.
So in an a-round about way they are finally making if available on x86...

@Fairdinkem

I'm excited about the new menuclass that they have now added.
Especially as I was the genesis of it.
It may appear fluff but it does add functionality such as unlimited menu depths.
It also allows for best placement of the menus.

They do seem to have developed it a little different to what I first provided.
It does still have automatic menu wrapping (which I still had an unfixed bug with).
Not that many will see it but if the menu stretches passed the bottom of the screen it automatically wraps around.

- I also was lining up aspects a bit more than they did.
If there were any icons on the left then I had all the text items still aligned even when they had no icon. (Not so presently on the OS4.1FE menus).

- I also preferred to put the checkmark and radio buttons after the icon. (OS4.1FE leaves this at the leftmost).

- They also have put the menu shortcuts in a column by themselves. I allowed for overlap with the menu items to make the menu tidier, more compact and always nice looking.

- They have allowed for other short cut strings (eg ctrl z) but these are simply text at the moment. Mine included definable icons for the modifier keys.

Plus other things...

The good thing, being BOOPSI now, is that these features can be added at a later time :)

So I think that is a step in the right direction...
I'm please they did that because I didn't have time to finish it and I thought my solution would just go to waste. So thank you to Trixie, Steve and whoever for getting this into such a wonderful and polished form.

It is good that they brought it in pre-OS4.2.
Most people will probably upgrade to whatever that is...
So it should ensure menuclass gets some use as I can foresee it would be a pain to support both old menus when OS4.1 is present or the newer BOOPSI menus when OS4.2 is present. It is possible but just a pain...

I couldn't presently find anything that uses them except the small example programs. I noticed that the OS4.1FE menus automatically wrap. So I'll have to check if previous versions have automatic wrap negating all I have said...

I'd be interested to know. I did use multiple classes whereas they have tidied it into a single menuclass. I was also working on a menu prefs/editor...

I apologise that I haven't able to provide more time to complete this myself for the Amiga. Though it does help having access to the OS code which I didn't.
For example there is/was a bug where the OS drew the selected image before changing the selected flag (I think that was the bug; I would have to check my old code). Though it may have only occurred when multi-selecting I suspect...

So I had to do some awful work-a-rounds to draw the menu items as selected or not selected correctly at particular times. If I had access to the OS4 code I could have just fixed this bug. So that does certainly help.

I hope menuclass garners wide adaption as icons are certainly a feature of today's modern OSes. It makes some other things easier too.

I look forward to OS4.2 whenever it arrives!

@TRIPOS

I wonder how many people would prefer new modern features to compatibility. I think I would. Spending excessive amounts of effort on compatibility seems like backwards thinking when you don't have the resources for it anyway. Probably a lot of people would say if you don't have compatibility then it isn't Amiga OS anymore; it's something else.

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@thinkchip

Quote:

I wonder how many people would prefer new modern features to compatibility. I think I would. Spending excessive amounts of effort on compatibility seems like backwards thinking when you don't have the resources for it anyway. Probably a lot of people would say if you don't have compatibility then it isn't Amiga OS anymore; it's something else.

I agree with all of this. There isn't much old Amiga software worth maintaining compatibility with other than some classic games, and these work with emulation, so no problem there. I'm all for taking the best concepts of Amiga and making something new.

This is especially true of UIs. I think the reason there are so many is because none of them are very good. Windows 10 and KDE 5 are minor refinements on what has been done for the past 20 years. Gnome 3 and Ubuntu Unity are trying (unsuccessfully) to merge desktop and phone UIs, i.e. so-called "convergence". OS X is probably the best of the lot, but I think there is still room for significant improvement.

There's room for improvement with Workbench too, but somehow it got the fundamentals right 30 years ago, while Windows hasn't. Case in point: there's still no way to lower a window in Windows. Cascading window placement, alt-tab window cycling, and minimization were all attempts at working around this shortcoming. While they are useful in there own way (especially alt-tab), none of them are as effective as a simple, direct means to lower a window.

Anyway, I'll get off my UI soapbox now.

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Seems like a sensitive topic so I'll state "in my opinion" first

Price of Widows makes up to-from 20-50% of end price for
Windows licensed machine in shop so if that logic is applied
then Hyperion would have to sell OS4 for about 1000 $ so it
can hire developers to do things faster but I doubt that
would go too well.

I read somewhere that Trevor invested million in recent
developments and I have no doubt that in the end it will
sell for no profit so while 1 million dollars isn't enough
to build new PPC CPU or related components I think it
might be barely enough to create replacement motherboard
for classics in ASIC form (or even FPGA with large quantity of
units produced).

I'm not trying to push my preference but looking at prices of
classics on EBay I think that way investment might just pay
off and make profit (no piece of classic hardware remains
unsold as it seems).Other idea would be to create zorro/A1200
expansion card with socket for 040/060 and memory onboard
and get money that way then use it for non-profitable
projects.

Last edited by blizz1220 on 26-Dec-2015 at 10:06 AM.

@blizz1220

I think they would have made more profit updating Amiga OS for 68k beyond 3.9 than with the whole PPC line but that is a different topic. Too late to change now.

@blizz1220

And BTW I am grateful to them... if they would not been so stubborn there anything outside would have had any chance

i thinking ... os 4.2 will come when something important will be finally done in the os side ... gallium , smp and memory protection like on osx , win, lnx ...

for now i think illbe wonderful have a bridge board like was the goldengate on pci for make the machine run some software not present on os4

if we thing a quad core atom minipc complete prize like 70€ .... i will happy to pay 100€ for one board like this for my miggy new gen hardware

Last edited by tlosm on 26-Dec-2015 at 10:52 AM.

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