@BrianK

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People sleeping in the same room? If you're gaming with all the sound off what do you care if it's 5.1 or 7.1?

The wonderful invention is called "The headphone". Philips and Sony manufacture some very good one!

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Besides I need it dark the 50" TV illumination on is enough to keep me awake.

My girlfriend falls asleep while watching movies...

@MikeB
Good humor.

Here we do Sennheiser.

The best advice I can give iPod owners is to scrap the crappy headphones that Apple ships. You'd be amazed how good your iPod sounds with some decent headphones.

@BrianK

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That's because the PS3 is Deep Color only so video HDMI v1.3 compliant but not audio v1.3 compliant.

OK. I still think this might change with a firmware update knowing Sony, but we'll see. Until then no shouting HDMI 1.3 from the rooftops thanks. OTOH, It would be interesting if Xbox 360 Elite would get 5.1 or 7.1 PCM sound (at least for HD DVD) some day too... I wonder what limits that at present, is it the hardware, software or some marketing reason (like not wanting to differentiate the SKUs too much). I guess it might be a combination of the first two.

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Microsoft is making further moves to move into a media center type appliance with the 360. Though I believe that was the plan all along. The Sony may feel a bit more media centric but I think the 360 is the 2nd largest used online audio visual purchasing platform with the the 1st being iTunes.

Duly noted. I do think MikeB has a point though with PS3 looking the part more in media center application with its built-in BD, memory card slots, multiple USBs in the front for easier access, Internet browsing, focus in menus not very gaming oriented etc. I most of the time may not need any of those extra features, but the difference is there. Aside those Xbox 360 certainly has many of the same features built-in or expandable (and it has IR!), but clearly Microsoft had a slightly different initial goal with their system (not much different, but slightly). They did include many media center features and have been adding to that ever since, but I do think Xbox 360 looks a bit more like a gaming console of the two contenders, which is fine for me, I don't need it to be anything else - nor do I need the PS3 to be anything else really.

The problem with PS3 at the moment is that while a nice general purpose box, the gaming console feature is still lagging content-wise. I also think Microsoft's focus on gaming resulted in an excellent set of first party controllers and accessories, mostly from launch already. It is interesting to see how the gaming content battle heats up come that almost mythical Christmas 2007...

@MikeB

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MikeB: Quote: Of course, some vocal XBox 360 fans were shouting the loudest jtsiren: Quote: ...isn't that a bit like you loudly concerned about Xbox 360 issues when you have no interest in the system? What the hell are you talking about? In the past in relation to the PS3 I couln't care less about the XBox 360. It started to matter more to me when some vocal people dissed in-depth PS3 discussions, because the XBox 360 was supposedly superior in any regard, which it's certainly not.

I'm talking about youself acting here like your secondary agenda is putting down Xbox 360 even though you have no personal interest in the system (your primary agenda is of course praising PS3 in the form of select quotes and links every chance you get). I just found it a bit odd of you having an issue with Xbox 360 fans dissecting PS3 issues when you are doing the same for Xbox 360. I have no problem with that really (if the issue is legitimate, lets discuss) but I would welcome more balance from you, there is no shame in posting some nice stuff about Xbox 360 too for a change (plenty of that around).

I'm sure it started out when "some vocal people dissed in-depth PS3 discussions", but you must understand that that exact very same reason is why I respond to you so often in Xbox 360 topics - being pretty much console neutral it just irritates me to see such blatant unbalanced posting. I wasn't against PS3 at all when we started talking, but discussing this with you really got me digging deeper into the PS3 mess. As you can see, as the PS3 matures, I have also reflected that in my commentary and much of the time have tried to shy away from debating things with you, but I still get that same reaction from time to time when I feel you are bashing Xbox 360 unfairly while praising PS3 without critique.

You are doing the exact same thing for PS3 you complain Xbox 360 fans doing for their system.

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You may not agree with me on this today, just like you may have thought the Atari ST to be superior at some point because it had more and slightly better versions of early games which didn't really make use of the benefits provided by the Amiga's custom chips.

I never thought that Atari ST would be superior to Amiga. I was a Commodore boy to the core. But looking at it objectively (easier with age), Atari ST was faster processor-wise then Amiga 500 and in some types of games this resulted in speed improvements. The built-in MIDI interface also helped a lot in the music industry. Some smaller individual benefits for Atari ST in things like the user-interface, screen resolutions and disk drives come to mind too. Atari put up a good (even if less inspired) fight, no doubt about that.

I know that wasn't your point really, just adding to the observation my own experiences. I do think both of us care about fanboy comments enough to irritate us to respond at times. I also do think you seem to stray into PS3 fanboyism yourself at times.

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The XBox 360 issues have affected my personal life and I am not happy about this. Normally when I temporary get to use something from someone else, I return this in 100% working condition. This should have been the case with the XBox 360 as well!

Things break. Anything you borrowed could have broken in a similar manner. Get Microsoft to fix it for you. As for the discussion about Xbox 360 build quality, that is a very legitimate discussion of course. Your interest in Xbox 360, though, is still much less personal than many of us here.

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The higher price is perfectly normal considering higher taxes and localized support/ marketing in different languages, etc.

It may be normal all right, but it has much to do with getting Europeans to pay more than Americans and taking an advantage of this. Remember, the money exchange rates are such that even priced at 1 EUR = 1 USD or something Sony would have benefited tremendeously (i.e. loosing at least not more than they are loosing in the U.S.). Not to mention the yen rate benefit in manufacturing. They saw a chance to make more money than in the U.S., took it, and apparently it worked out for them allright. I don't have to like it though, and as an European consumer I would wish you don't like it either.

Last edited by jtsiren on 27-May-2007 at 09:41 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 27-May-2007 at 09:41 AM.

The difference between full RGB range HDMI and limited (left side), if supported by your HDTV:

http://i11.tinypic.com/62zumfd.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/4t7nres.jpg

If the end result is too dark you'll have to play with your HDTV's brightness and contrast levels to get the best result.

I don't want to comment too much on the ongoing lawsuit between Amiga Inc and Hyperion, but as this is related and now out in the public, IMO some interesting food for thought:

Most relevant parts, underlined:

Thomas Frieden: "I think what we lack is definitely a high-end system. The low end is pretty much covered, but we need some "beast" with a G5, or even better a cell... The Cell is extremely interesting, especially since Toshiba's roadmap shows a lot of promise about it in the future.

Bill McEwen: "We are working with IBM very closely on the Cell, and they have offered us some support for Cell. RJ Mical agrees with you as well about the cell."

Hans-Joerg Frieden: "Cell is certainly the way to go for the longer term future."

Bill McEwen: "OK, the next reason that I am asking is becuase we have been approached by Sony on PS3 stuff. They want to have Amiga available on that platform :)"

Hans-Joerg Frieden: "THe PS3 is a logical target"

See thread on latest court submissions for the full story.

@MikeB

So....

Why Amiga port to PS3 did not happen? What was reason in your opinion?

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@jtsiren

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OTOH, It would be interesting if Xbox 360 Elite would get 5.1 or 7.1 PCM sound (at least for HD DVD) some day too

HUH? It's my understanding the Elite does what the PS3 does. Internally convert to PCM and send over HDMI. Though it does 5.1 not 7.1.


Quote:

Thomas Frieden: "I think what we lack is definitely a high-end system. The low end is pretty much covered, but we need some "beast" with a G5, or even better a cell... The Cell is extremely interesting, especially since Toshiba's roadmap shows a lot of promise about it in the future. Bill McEwen: "We are working with IBM very closely on the Cell, and they have offered us some support for Cell. RJ Mical agrees with you as well about the cell."

Something strange about this. The low end AmigaOne w/ G5 from software hut is $1,500. The high end Cell using a PS3 would cost around $700. Whose brillant idea would be selling the high end at half the price of the low end?

@itix

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Why Amiga port to PS3 did not happen? What was reason in your opinion?

Should be "did not yet happen?". Also note there's some time between the initial port running on the hardware and an enduser version becoming available.

Like I said before, without going into details (I am just a neutral observer at this point):

1) IP related disagreements.
2) Samantha deserving priority from Hyperion, as for example it's an easier port to fully support the hardware.
3) At some point European OS4 developers did not yet have access to PS3 hardware.

Surely there may be more reasons I may even be unaware of myself, but one thing is clear AmigaOS4 developers, Amiga Inc as well as Hyperion (and several other parties, myself included) want to see AmigaOS4.x happen for the PS3.

@MikeB

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Surely there may be more reasons I may even be unaware of myself, but one thing is clear AmigaOS4 developers, Amiga Inc as well as Hyperion (and several other parties, myself included) want to see AmigaOS4.x happen for the PS3.

Yes, maybe it will indeed happen after the lifespan of the PS3.

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@BrianK

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HUH? It's my understanding the Elite does what the PS3 does. Internally convert to PCM and send over HDMI. Though it does 5.1 not 7.1.

It is my understanding Xbox 360 Elite is able to pass out PCM only as 2.0 via HDMI. DD 5.1 via HDMI is of course also possible. I am of a very distinct impression that this is the case for HD DVD at least, you can output e.g. TrueHD in 2.0 PCM lossless or DD/DTS/WMA compressed. I believe for games too. PS3 has the ability to output 7.1 PCM lossless (not sure about 7.1 for games, but BD at least).

@jtsiren

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7.1 PCM lossless (not sure about 7.1 for games, but BD at least)

Motorstorm, Resistance: Fall of Man and a few others already support 7.1 PCM lossless audio. Lair 7.1 audio is confirmed and be sure most other high profile titles published by Sony will do so too in the future.

@MikeB

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Motorstorm, Resistance: Fall of Man and a few others already support 7.1 PCM lossless audio. Lair 7.1 audio is confirmed and be sure most other high profile titles published by Sony will do so too in the future.

Yes, I confirmed this with Motorstorm. The receiver reports 7.1 PCM and the rear surrounds pump out different sound than the side surrounds. In this game the rears seem to (just listening quickly) play all the music while the sides concentrate on surround effects.

@MikeB

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Lawsuit Claims Microsoft Xbox Sparked Fire That Killed Baby

You're using an Xbox 1 power lead recall to justify your claims about the 360's reliability. You could mention Sony recalling millions of PS2 power adapters. You could metion that Sony made biggest recall programme in history - 7.7 million overheating batteries. You could have mentioned the PS2's notoriously unreliable laser.

Fianl edit: I thought quoting the tenuous link above, particularly in light of Sony's problems above was not done in very good taste. I'll leave it at that.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 27-May-2007 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by clebin on 27-May-2007 at 03:29 PM.

@clebin

The PS3 is often referred to as a tank in terms of reliability.

The actual point was, that the XBox 360 seems to have severe reliability issues (pointing towards not having done enough testing) and that leaving your console on for the night may not actually be a good idea. Take my advise or leave it, I don't wish you harm either way.

Sony has a long rich history of high quality, reliable consumer electronics. Microsoft still has to earn itself a reputation, which so far has gone the wrong way (excluding low risk consumer products like keyboards, mice and joysticks).

Last edited by MikeB on 27-May-2007 at 04:44 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 27-May-2007 at 04:40 PM.

@MikeB

As you can see, I was unsure whether I should be interrupting a thread I'm not involved with by posting not my first criticism of your posts.

You are saying the PS3 is "a tank" and it should stand on its own merit, and that is exactly what I'm arguing. Sadly, you will not let the 360 stand, or fall, on its own merit. According to you the Xbox 1 is relevant, but the PS2 is not. That is bias.

If there is any doubt over the relevance of a story like that, you should've shown the good taste and respect not to post it IMHO.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 27-May-2007 at 04:53 PM.

@clebin

IMO it's relevant, I would certainly appreciate ii if you shared a story on a lawsuit of the PS2 or PSX possibly resulting in great personal harm. The XBox issues have been confirmed by Microsoft and thus is pretty credible. I can see the relationship, torching carpets => house on fire => great physical harm to consumers.

IMO it would have been better for you to criticize the people who fabiricated the prank that a PS3 resulted in someone's home to burn down. I understand that you may not see the bias in your approach.

Last edited by MikeB on 27-May-2007 at 05:35 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 27-May-2007 at 05:03 PM.

To recap:

In 2005 Microsoft recalled 14 million power cables they shipped with their XBox gaming console from 2001-2004. They did this after years on the basis and in reply of consumer reports (quite likely the company was afraid of lawsuits). It's quite possible there were further incidents where it wasn't discovered that the XBox was at fault.

How is this relevant to the XBox 360? The product doesn't seem well tested, user reports of overheating problems are going through the roof. The recall happened years after they first shipped the faulty power cables. Just food for thought for your consideration, make up your own minds if leaving on the console overnight is good or bad (be it in terms of console failures like I experienced myself or possibly an even more severe hypothetical incident).

@MikeB

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Sony has a long rich history of high quality, reliable consumer electronics.

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I can see the relationship, torching carpets => house on fire => great physical harm to consumers.

Understanding Irony: A Guide

Acer recalls 27,000 Sony laptop batteries (26 April 2007)
Sony says battery burn-out probe should have been quicker (4 December 2006)
Gateway opens up to Sony battery recall plan (24 October 2006)
Sharp asks laptop owners to return 28,000 batteries (16 October 2006)
Hitachi recalls Sony laptop batteries (6 October 2006)
Fujitsu wants 287,000 Sony batteries back (4 October 2006)
Lenovo and IBM recall 500k+ batteries (28 September 2006)
Sony probes Los Angeles Airport laptop blaze (25 September 2006)
Yahoo! guest's Dell laptop goes up in smoke (21 September 2006)
Toshiba recalls 340,000 Sony-made batteries (19 September 2006)
'Hindenbook' returns to burn Apple users (24 August 2006)
Dell recalls 4.1m laptop batteries (14 August 2006)
Dell's 'Zippo' batteries may be in other machines (16 August 2006)

The Incident MikeB posted about (December 2004)
Sony recalls slim-line PS2 power adapters (14 September 2005)

Clebin gets sucked into MikeB's argument (27 May 2007)

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 27-May-2007 at 06:14 PM.

@MikeB

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IMO it would have been better for you to criticize the people who fabiricated the prank that a PS3 resulted in someone's home to burn down. I understand that you may not see the bias in your approach.

When these idiots come to AmigaWorld and start participating on our forums, be sure to PM me and I will come and vent the sum-total of my wrath about any such stupid and unnecesary prank. How does that sound?