@clebin

You might think you are sharing "news" here regarding the battery recall, but that's not really the case. It's been mentioned and discussed in many PS3 related threads here at AmigaWorld and doesn't affect their game consoles at all. Luckily we don't see similar behaviour in consumer electronics forums everytime Sony's consumer electronics are being discussed.

Overall Sony has a good reputation regarding consumer electronics.

A video of the PS3 accessing content stored on a Vista/Media Center laptop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP1gGnsSVSE

Video of the new photo album slideslow:

Note you can zoom in and the program automatically rearranges your images:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0tXqI9QCS8

Last edited by MikeB on 27-May-2007 at 09:27 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Overall Sony has a good reputation regarding consumer electronics.

Not really.

Sony VAIO has one of the worst repair records for laptops. Sony Connect was at best a shoddy knock off of iTunes. Sony cameras from 2003-2005 got a recall just before Christmas 06 due to image quality that goes bad, luckily their battery fisaco was larger and covered up much news on this recall. Don't forget their fun with DRM Rootkits. Recently there was more fun with protections on DVDs. Sony blamed manufactures told people to get DVD player updates from their vendors and has since issued a recall. They buy out competition, Bleem, or take heavy handed actions against little guys which can't afford to defend themselves, Lik-Sang. They have questionable advertising practices such as hiring people to deface buildings with PSP graffiti, and the PS3 ads playing off racist stereotypes.

Sony does infrequently knock one over the fence such as their recent TVs and videocameras. It definitely helps them keep their good name.

If you think Sony has this great reputation perhaps you should look at why they nearly failed and have had some massive restructuring, I believe 5 times between 94-03. Seriously instead of denying you know anything about PS2 issues and take some time to look into it. Why not use 10% of the energy you expend dissing the 360 and look into Sony issues they exist. I think you'll find their reputation is decent electronics at premium prices.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Quote: European backwards compatibility seems almost complete at this point European BC appears to be as complete as it's going to be. Here's SCEE's statement in case you missed it "This upgrade focused on upscaling and there were no significant backward compatibility enhancements. As we have pointed out on many occasions, our engineer's focus is now on innovative applications and services for PS3 and not B/C, so you are not going to see major changes in future updates"

As Sony pointed out on many occasions (can't remember when, but I thought it was with 1.60 too), BC is no longer a priority, but still we see better BC with (up till now) every new firmware.

No major changes is not equal to no changes.

And as I tried to investigate this, I ran into some more positive stuff: Undocumented PS3 1.80 firmware goodies

It seems some HDMI handshake problems were solved. Especially people with Westinghouse screens seem to be very happy. I quickly went through the thread and saw only someone with a Samsung (1080i) still reporting problems with handshaking.

What I personally love is the inclusion of 1080p24. When your screen supports it, you can play BR in it's native frame rate. Although PAL usually bypassed this by ignoring the 24 and act as if it was supposed to be in 25 Hz and most people will not notice the slightly higher pitch for the soundtrack. When this will be added to the NTSC region, they can finally enjoy the movies on their PS3's without the need for 3:2 pulldown, with all the associated artefacts.

@BrianK

Note that the high quality standards HDTV market is highly competitive, Sony is far from a monopolist here considering the diversity of choices, yet the are the global market leader. I searched for some actual studies to see if they back up your or my perspectives, personally I thnk you may have been reading too many XBox 360 fanboy websites to cloud your perspective:

- "Sony Ericsson ranks highest in mobile phone customer satisfaction

November 20, 2006 Sony Ericsson ranks highest in satisfying customers who have owned their current mobile phone for less than two years, according to a J.D. Power and Associates 2006 U.S. Wireless Mobile Phone Evaluation Study released this week. "

- "Ninety-one percent of all digital camera buyers report doing some type of research prior to purchasing a new camera.

The study measures six factors within each price-based camera segment to determine overall satisfaction: ease of use, connectivity, functionality, cost, picture quality and appearance.

Nikon ranks highest in the $199 or less price segment with high ratings from customers in picture quality, appearance and connectivity. Sony closely follows Nikon in the segment and receives top ratings from customers in functionality. "



- Our study results seem to suggest the concern over the defective Sony battery packs was felt primarily by the media. With our interviews extending through the end of October, we observed nothing in customer perceptions that could be definitively traced to the battery recall. In 4Q06, we will attempt through more specific questioning to determine the effects, if any, driven by battery recalls on customer satisfaction.
© 2006 Technology Business Research, Inc. 4 Third Calendar Quarter 2006 Corporate Notebook PC Customer Satisfaction

- "Sony Assurance Ranks Highest in Customer Satisfaction with Response to Insurance Claims; Zurich Ranks Highest in Satisfying Auto Insurance Customers in Japan for a Third Consecutive Year.

The study, now in its third year, evaluates customer satisfaction with insurance plans and insurance claims as well as experiences with signing an insurance contract. The study is based on responses from 13,831 insurance customers, including 5,484 responses from customers who filed a claim, who were surveyed in May 2006."

Overall Sony seems to have a good reputation regarding their products and services.

Last edited by MikeB on 28-May-2007 at 09:45 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 28-May-2007 at 09:36 AM.

@jiyong

Quote:

It seems some HDMI handshake problems were solved. Especially people with Westinghouse screens seem to be very happy.

That's excellent news. Within an earlier thread I specifcally warned people of one particular earlier model Westinghouse TV with regard to HDMI handshake problems!

Last edited by MikeB on 28-May-2007 at 09:35 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Overall Sony seems to have a good reputation regarding their products and services.

To quote Chandler from the Friends when Joey says something crazy: "OH MY GOD!"

Nothing wrong with posting some positive quotes to balance the discussion out, but the conclusion that some quotes like that justify the conclusiong that "Overall Sony seems to have a good reputation" is just silly. Try at least and find some more wider research on this instead of cherry picking some areas where Sony has done well (in some markets).

No doubt Sony is a good corporation like Microsoft is a good corporation. Both produce enormous amounts of good products. I have several Sony consumer electronics devices and I think they have good industrial design and at times good technical results too (though not always, Sony is by no means a magic word). Of course I also have some Microsoft products, less so than Sony because I'm an Apple fan... But both Sony and Microsoft have also a more controversial side.

I guess I could post links of Microsoft customer satisfaction surveys or market leadership, but what would be the point. I'm not here to gloss over Microsoft's deficiencies as you seem to be of Sony's.

As for headphones, I have to go with BrianK, Sony has got nothing on Sennheiser.

Back on topic: I *DO* think PS3 seems to be of better build quality due to the design defect in Xbox 360 making is susceptible to heat warping related breakdowns.

@jtsiren

Quote:

Nothing wrong with posting some positive quotes to balance the discussion out, but the conclusion that some quotes like that justify the conclusiong that "Overall Sony seems to have a good reputation" is just silly. Try at least and find some more wider research on this instead of cherry picking some areas where Sony has done well (in some markets).

Cherry picking? I just did a google search on "+consumer +satisfaction + Sony + study" and posted the results of the studies regarding Sony. Can you provide us with better studies instead of making allegations, please?

Here's another one:

A survey conducted in Fall 2006 shows that Sony has the strongest brand:

The AlixPartners Brand Power IndexSM found that the ten most powerful brands today are:

1. Sony (NYSE-SNE)
2. Johnson & Johnson (NYSE-JNJ)
3. Kraft (NYSE-KFT)
4. Procter & Gamble (NYSE-PG)
5. Campbell’s (NYSE-CPB)
6. Toyota (NYSE-TM)
7. Tylenol
8. Dell (NasdaqGS-DELL)
9. General Mills (NYSE-GIS)
10. Hewlett-Packard (NYSE-HPQ)

Of note, several mega-brands such as Coca Cola (Nasdaq-COKE), Pepsi NYSE-PBG), tied for 11th, and Nike (NYSE-NKE), at 14th did not crack the top 10 under this new methodology.

http://www.alixpartners.com/EN/NewsMedia/PressReleases/tabid/129/PressReleaseID/73/Display/Detail/Default.aspx

@jiyong

Quote:

As Sony pointed out on many occasions (can't remember when, but I thought it was with 1.60 too), BC is no longer a priority, but still we see better BC with (up till now) every new firmware. No major changes is not equal to no changes. And as I tried to investigate this, I ran into some more positive stuff: Undocumented PS3 1.80 firmware goodies It seems some HDMI handshake problems were solved.

I'm confused why you even bothered to attempt to tie your statement to mine? I quoted SCEE themselves when they said no changes to backwards compatibility. Your statement is talking about other changes. Obviously I do not think that no changes haven't been done. It'd be a bit daft for Sony to release an upgrade without changes wouldn't yet? Yes of course. Of course and HDMI handshake problem doesn't make PS1 games work that didn't before as you state it fixed a problem with Westinghouse monitors.

@jtsiren

Quote:

As for headphones, I have to go with BrianK, Sony has got nothing on Sennheiser

That all good and well regarding your personal perspetives, but doesn't negate my comments on Sony producing some of the best headphones on the market today in any possible way.

Top 10 Headphones Reviewed

Sony MDR-700DJ Studio Monitor Series



"Durability:

By far the most durable of all the headphones reviewed. Double enforced head band, metal components, half the reason that DJ’s use these headphones is because they are soo durable. You can throw them around (did that), sit on them (that too), and overall do everything you aren’t supposed to do to them and they will keep on ticking.

Recommedation:

For anyone that will be listening to music for longer than an hour at a time. That’s calling all you engineering students out there, web designers, programmers, and anyone else that spends more time on their computer than they should. As far as design aesthetics these headphones are beautiful, we’re talking the Jessica Alba of headphones. I know that there are now more expensive new generations of this headphones and better DJ headphones out there, but there is a reason these headphones have become a classic."

Sony MDR-EX71SL Fontopia Headphones

"Buy if you are looking for those headphones to get your from point A to point B. Perfect for the train ride commute that is less than an hour. Don’t buy if you are planning on using these guys for hours on end while doing homework or web designing it’ll give you a headache or your ears will start throbbing…ok yours might not but mine did. This isn’t a Fontopia thing, it’s an in-ear headphone thing, though like I said in-ear works for some people just not me and I’ve owned some pretty good in-ear phones which right now my sister is enjoying (she loves in-ear headphones and CAN wear them for hours on end). Good buy if you like in-ear headphones, not super expensive and provide good value."

IMO it's somewhat astounding people here of all companies would like to portray Sony as having a bad overall reputation. I think it's very positive a company like Sony is interested in the Amiga community!

Last edited by MikeB on 28-May-2007 at 11:45 AM.

@MikeB

(As for headphones - I'm by no means an expert. Nothing wrong with Sony headphones either, I've owned some - I haven't owned any Microsoft headphones if not counting Xbox Live ones... - just a personal recommendation. Sennheiser does good, really good.)

Quote:

IMO it's somewhat astounding people here of all companies would like to portray Sony as having a bad overall reputation. I think it's very positive a company like Sony is interested in the Amiga community!

Sony has gained its big brother notoriety after incidents like the rootkit and Lik-Sang. Many people also dislike Sony's attempts, mostly failed, at controlling various formats (see how closed BDA is compared to the open HD DVD forum). Just like Microsoft gained its notoriety after incidents like BeOS and anti-trust cases. There are reasons why knowledgeable computer/electronics fans dislike these companies, both of them. Both have lost class action lawsuits, both have had well justified boycott campaigns directed at them. Both companies also have various build quality incidents under their belt, the PS2 laser being unreliable just as Xbox 360 has the X clamp issue.

Why you choose to ingore any issues Sony has had (or try to overwhelm the argument with positive comments) while freely taking jabs at Microsoft I can only attribute to some kind of bias. I wouldn't consider for one minute googling to try to prove you guys how good Microsoft is, but for some reason you choose to do the same for Sony. It would be one thing if it actually felt like you'd really try and understand all the issues surrounding Sony, but from your posts it seems like you just want to paint a rosy picture.

There are people who hate Microsoft. There are people who hate Sony. Some hate both. Many have good reasons for doing so. I'm more pragmatic in my approach, so I just look at the products and buy what I need and feel worthy of supporting.

@MikeB

Quote:

Top 10 Headphones Reviewed

The very last one along with some notable misses makes me seriously question this person's Top 10. They put the iPod headphones on there and make the comment not to laugh at them but that the hedaphones are the best if you don't want to spend any more money. Sure I'll give them the point but the top of a pile of dung still means they're dung. iPod headphones are NOT anywhere near the top 10 headphones one can buy.

On the same page if you go to the remastered Top 10 link they list the top 21 headphones from their users. Sony is # 13 behind 3 sets of Sennheisers. Looking at this list it's a much better layout.

@MikeB

Quote:

Note that the high quality standards HDTV market is highly competitive, Sony is far from a monopolist here considering the diversity of choices, yet the are the global market leader. I searched for some actual studies to see if they back up your or my perspectives, personally I thnk you may have been reading too many XBox 360 fanboy websites to cloud your perspective:

First off I want to thank you for backing my point that Sony has done well in the TV and camera arena. Now instead of just searching for Sony = good do it the other way. Sony sucks is likely a good start. You seem to seriously lack any willingness to admit Sony has had issues. Personally I thnk you may have been reading too many PS3 fanboy websites to cloud your perspective:

@MikeB

Quote:

Cherry picking? I just did a google search on "+consumer +satisfaction + Sony + study" and posted the results of the studies regarding Sony. Can you provide us with better studies instead of making allegations, please?

I'm not making allegations, I'm just saying that the quotes you provide proove in no way that Sony has a good overall reputation. I could just as well go an find out various quotes to the contrary, say, using "Sony reputation" as the keywords.

Just some articles:

For Sony, a Pain in the Image
"According to information site SonySuit.com, six class-action lawsuits have been filed against Sony in the U.S. so far, and one has been filed internationally. ... Whatever official steps are taken, for many individuals, the damage has already been done. Oldham of Compufix has been encouraging his clients to not buy anything Sony. "I can't trust Sony right now," he says."
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051202_241333.htm

Sony appoints safety manager after battery scare
"The recalls have forced Sony's share price down, and will probably cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars."
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39282621,00.htm

Sony's Damaged Reputation Has Its Costs
"It is often said that a good reputation is priceless. While this may be true, Sony (SNE) is demonstrating that the costs of a damaged reputation are quite quantifiable."
http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/19019

Wikipedia has good overview of why Sony has such a reputation (e.g. amongst hardcore gamers):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony

I mean, with companies as big as Microsoft and Sony, working any many fields and many kinds of products, we could go on and on, finding articles good and bad, research to both ways, and we probably couldn't come to a conclusive answer which one has the better reputation. Likely it depends on whom do we ask. I certainly don't claim to be such an expert to make an assesment one way or the other - other than state once again that both have done questionable deeds and paid the PR price (and probably financial price) of that as well.

If we were truly looking for a morally pure company we'd buy from neither.

Last edited by jtsiren on 28-May-2007 at 12:55 PM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 28-May-2007 at 12:52 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

November 20, 2006 Sony Ericsson ranks highest in satisfying customers who have owned their current mobile phone for less than two years, according to a J.D. Power and Associates 2006 U.S. Wireless Mobile Phone Evaluation Study released this week. "

Those users luckily don't have one of SE's Symbian phones... It was the most expensive mistake I've ever made so far...
Big shame, I really like my K750 and I like what I've seen from the K800 and expected the P990i to be a nice PDA/Phone, with WiFi, etc.

Last edited by AMiGR on 28-May-2007 at 01:33 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

Sony MDR-EX71SL Fontopia Headphones

Actually, I've had many pairs of Sony headphones over the years, as well as Sony CD players, Sony MP3 players, newer AIWA/Sony MP3 players and the sound quality never was good. It's sound for the beat and hi-hat generation, too much bass, too much treble, no mids, while most of the music is mids.

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@AMiGR

Quote:

Big shame, I really like my K750 and I like what I've seen from the K800 and expected the P990i to be a nice PDA/Phone, with WiFi, etc.

They appear to have had quite a few software problems with the p990i, it took some time but they seem to have been mostly fixed now (though the fixes may not have made it to the operator branded phones yet).

It's not clear what the problem was but SE said Symbian wasn't putting enough into their UIQ division, they eventually solved this by buying the division.

For the most part Ericsson were always very good and this appeared to continue with SE, the top end phones seemed to be considered pretty much the best on the market. Then they fouled up royally with the 990i.

--

Anyway, back on topic - here's an interview with one of the 360's hardware guys:

Interview about Xbox 360

Hmm, listening to it, it sounds like the original plan for the 360 was to have something more like Cell.

Last edited by minator on 28-May-2007 at 01:57 PM.

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Whyzzat?

@minator

Quote:

They appear to have had quite a few software problems with the p990i, it took some time but they seem to have been mostly fixed now (though the fixes may not have made it to the operator branded phones yet).

I have the latest firmware, since I've debranded my Orange P990i, and I still have way too many problems that make it useless, like missing calls, dropping the line randomly, crashing when receiving calls, crashing when making calls, crashing when entering a 3G area, crashing when GPRS kicks in, randomly crashing, randomly being very slow, et cetera... To make matters worse, my battery has died already, after only 6 months of use. It doesn't last the day...

Last edited by AMiGR on 28-May-2007 at 02:02 PM.

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@jtsiren

None of those are actual studies though, personally I would value the studies I linked to much higher. BTW especially US media has earned itself a reputation of being on a crusade against Sony and relatively lackluster with regard to objectively reporting on Microsoft's wrongdoings (not mentioning other below par reporting).

@ AmiGR

I am perfectly satisfied with recent Samsumg phones. Currently own an ultra thin U600! But my personal preferences don't mean anything with regard to actual surveys.

Last edited by MikeB on 28-May-2007 at 02:05 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I am perfectly satisfied with recent Samsumg phones. Currently own an ultra thin U600! But my personal preferences don't mean anything with regard to actual surveys.

I beg your pardon, Mike? What are you going on about? My personal preferences? I've already said that I have SE phones. In fact, I've had an SE T200, an SE T610, an SE K750i and now a P990i, from that you might be able to deduct that my preference is towards Sony Ericsson phones. Yes, myself and most users of the P990i and all other UIQ3 phones are completely dissatisfied with them because they are buggy and useless pieces of rat droppings, released to market a year before they were ready. The UIQ2 series of phones were *very* good, had a nice interface with the 5D wheel, etc. They've decided to screw it up with UIQ3.

So, yes, that has *nothing* to do with my preference and has everything to do with customer satisfaction, not just by myself but by every person I know that has such a phone as well as software developers for them.

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