@MikeB

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I think this may be a rational explanation, the discussion must have regarded Microsoft's claim of failure rates of between 3 and 5%, to which I believe the employee replied that these figures are wrong by a factor 10 based on EA's experience. That would then account for the journalist reporting between 30-50%.

I would suggest, though, that EA probably uses their Xbox 360 differently to the average Joe. EA may for instance run the machines all day, average Joe plays a few hours here and there. But, again, I do think Xbox 360 has a design flaw that makes is susceptible to heat related failure. Microsoft needs to fix it.

As for PS3, I do believe the mounting commentary on different experiences on how loud the machine is suggests that maybe noise isn't quite uniform. But varying noise levels does usually not affect reliability, so in comparison that is a very minor issue. PS3 indeed so far seems to be like a tank.

Knowing my luck, though, having said that I'll probably now break my PS3 and Xbox 360 just keeps on churning...

Microsoft has a reputation of filing for ridiculous patents, features and design used for decades by competiting effort like on Amigas. I found an interesting article:

"People in the technology business tend to think ahead. And there are some that saw this storm coming quite a while ago. And they have prepared for just this situation.

Open source software is, as repeatedly mentioned, a darling of corporate business. It is free and it is usually of high quality, what's not to like?

And there are some corporations that really do like their Linux systems and are willing to fight for them. Six of these - Sony, Philips, IBM, NEC, Novell and RedHat - set up an association in 2005. This association, the Open Invention Network (OIN), have proactively registered patents that some Microsoft technologies are based on.

This sets the stage for a tit-for-tat battle of patent lawsuits. A truce between Microsoft and the OIN has been in effect, almost like the cold war where both sides held back because of mutually assured destruction. But Microsoft is getting visibly restive, which may signal the opening of hostilities.

Nobody wants a patent Armageddon on their hands; it would hurt the industry and especially the customers. Microsoft should remember how the real cold war ended, with the victory of the free world and the collapse of the "evil empire"."

Who's side are you on? The Borg or the defenders of the free world?

@jtsiren

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I would suggest, though, that EA probably uses their Xbox 360 differently to the average Joe. EA may for instance run the machines all day, average Joe plays a few hours here and there.

Although I agree EA probably use their XBox 360 more extensively than the average user, I don't think they leave their boxes on after working hours. Also actual development most likely isn't done on the XBox 360 itself, they probably use them for testing purposes.

@MikeB

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Who's side are you on? The Borg or the defenders of the free world?

...you call Sony a defender of the free world? Oh my... Sony has never used legal leverage or used controlling policies... No, sirree... Oh, wait a minute, yes they have.

@jtsiren

There's a difference between defending your IP and trying to obstruct the market from advancing. IMO Microsoft clearly does both, with the former I don't have problems with.

@MikeB

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There's a difference between defending your IP and trying to obstruct the market from advancing. IMO Microsoft clearly does both, with the former I don't have problems with.

You like what Sony did to Lik-Sang?

You are saying Sony hasn't done things to obstruct the market from advancing while Microsoft has?

@jtsiren

"Sony claimed that Lik-Sang infringed its trade marks, copyright and registered design rights by selling Sony PSP consoles from Asia to European customers, and have recently obtained a judgment in the High Court of London (England) rendering Lik-Sang's sales of PSP consoles unlawful."

@MikeB

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"Sony claimed that Lik-Sang infringed its trade marks, copyright and registered design rights by selling Sony PSP consoles from Asia to European customers, and have recently obtained a judgment in the High Court of London (England) rendering Lik-Sang's sales of PSP consoles unlawful."

Look into the matter more. That is like saying Microsoft wins patent disputes, sure the law might see it their way but if you are talking about defenders of the free world there is very little to defent the Lik-Sang action with. Sony was greedy, Lik-Sang was messing with their "charge Europeans etc. more" scheme.

@jtsiren

Very different cases IMO. This retailer was able to generate money from unlawful business practices, non-localized and un-adapted PSP sales into the European market before its official launch is not only potentially harmful consumers, but also constitutes unfair competition with other retailers which abide by the laws. This happening on a large scale could be a logistical nightmare for Sony, Sony Europe does not officially support Asian models. I think it's likely they will unofficially though, especially if you bought the unit second-hand unaware of the problem.

BTW, I have no problem with Microsoft trying to register non-rediculous patents, areas they have really invested R&D on.

Last edited by MikeB on 30-May-2007 at 12:09 PM.

@MikeB

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retailer was able to generate money from unlawful business practices, non-localized and un-adapted PSP sales into the European market before its official launch is not only potentially harmful consumers

IMHO it was a freedom limiting action made for monetary reasons, nothing more. Manufacturers dislike grey imports mostly because it limits their options to limit free trade, oh those valiant freedom fighters... Not to mention Lik-Sang was a relatively small operation, incapable of really defending itself against such global onslaught (court in EU etc., multiple lawsuits) by Sony. But of course you see nothing wrong with it, it was Sony after all.

Look around a bit and see what many people online think of Sony after Lik-Sang.

@jtsiren

In retrospect...I'll bet Sony wishes Lik-Sang was exporting as many PS3's as possible right now...

...but I agree with the "charge PAL territory more" pricing stragedy being foiled by Lik-Sang as the main motivation at the time.

@jtsiren

Sony likes the quality perception of their products to remain high. PS3s and PSPs are complex devices upgradable with firmware updates. It's not in their interest to see unlawful business happen on a large scale. It would be a logistical nightmare, developing products for the European market often takes more time due to localization.

For your information Lik-Sang also lost lawsuits started by Microsoft and Nintendo.

@MikeB

I have to wonder if you really believe in what you are saying. Maybe you do. But the way you seem to let Sony's explanations for such a lawsuit sink hook, line and sinker just seems very naiive. Official, exclusive importers have been a tool for companies a long time, an anti-competetive measure that makes it easier to charge different prices in different places for the same goods and also control market entry for maximal profit (like region coding) instead of letting the free market dictate. Grey importers have been a pet peeve, but really when looking at it from the point of free market doing nothing wrong - that is how capitalism at its purest works. Unfortunately from time to time companies like Sony get the law on their side, especially with their extensive legal budgets compares to small-time players. Fortunately the profileration of free trade areas (like the EU) will make this harder in the future - I'm sure lobbyists for large companies will fight it though.

It has (in relative terms) nothing to do with quality control and everything to do with the other kind of control... And especially, it has nothing to do with "freedom" - quite the contrary actually. For you to excuse this of Sony and call them a defender of the free world is quite insane really.

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For your information Lik-Sang also lost lawsuits started by Microsoft and Nintendo.

Oh, but I wasn't the one calling them defenders of the free world. Large corporations do stuff like this. I don't like it, though, but I'm not making excuses for them either.

Last edited by jtsiren on 30-May-2007 at 12:46 PM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 30-May-2007 at 12:46 PM.

@jtsiren

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But the way you seem to let Sony's explanations for such a lawsuit sink hook

That was my own reasoning based on what I've read so far.

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charge different prices in different places for the same goods and also control market entry

Obviously we aren't even talking about identical goods here. So you think of no reason why some products may cost more in Europe than in more unified markets? Neglecting logistics related costs, such as translation of manuals, system / software, locally targeted advertising, more diverse and complex legal systems, different and higher taxing, etc?

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For you to excuse this of Sony and call them a defender of the free world is quite insane really

Just having some fun using the wording as found in the article I was quoting. Should I forward your complaints?

Last edited by MikeB on 30-May-2007 at 01:41 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 30-May-2007 at 01:30 PM.

@MikeB

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Neglecting logistics related costs, such as translation of manuals, system / software, locally targeted advertising, more diverse and complex legal systems, different and higher taxing, etc?

You really think that is the major reason why stuff costs more in Europe? Remember: currenty rates made the European PS3 launch very lucrative for Sony, reports suggest they may even break almost even selling PS3 in Europe whereas everywhere else they make major loss.

Last edited by jtsiren on 30-May-2007 at 01:46 PM.

@jtsiren

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You really think that is the major reason why stuff costs more in Europe?

There are many different reasons, I just mentioned the tip of the iceberg, for example an European workforce (covering all the different countries) may also cost more than for example an US or Japanese workforce. There are many different factors to take into account.

@MikeB

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NeoGAF is a forum filled with XBox 360 defenders (at least in the past). So if somebody is obviously lying it's countered immediately. But did you actually read that NeoGAF thread?

I don't read NeoGAF but some other 360 boards. The other boards tend to be US populated and the users who have recently had broken 360s are reporting 2-3 week turn arounds, often with return boxes sent to users in 2 days, and the fulfillment of warranties if your 360 is under 1 year old. If the persons are NeoGAF are telling the truth there is clearly a disconnect. Now I did not read the particular thread if you want to link to it directly so I'm reading exactly what you expect I'll be glad to.

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I think issues are relatively underdiscussed by XBox 360 fanboys.

I doubt it. Reading 360 threads a broken 360 thread is always, always one of the top 5 discussions going on at any one time.

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More like, a journalist starts chit-chatting.

Exactly my point. Chit chat is just that. Heresay and inaccuracies are easily 'reported' on if the reporter is lazy and doesn't follow up. I'd like to see someone call EA and ask for the Director and see if they could comment offically in any capacity. However, a in-depth research appeared to not be tried instead it appears to be more likely reporting a rumor.

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Note EA has no interest to anger XBox 360 fanboys

What better way for EA to show 360 support but lead a charge for a Class Action? If they truly have 50% of their 360s dying their developers and work are hindered and their business sees undue expenses. I'd even venture if the #s are that great likely it's costing them more to make 360 games then games for the PS3. Not only could they rally a solution they could be held as a good company. As for angering 360 fans if 50% of 360s are truly breaking the amount angered is going to be indeed small.

@BrianK

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If the persons are NeoGAF are telling the truth there is clearly a disconnect.

I looked up the posting behaviour of various posters and they seem to be credible and generally huge fans of the software they bought for the XBox 360. I have no reason to believe their claims to be untrue, for instance a CVG editor admitted 3 XBox 360s broke on him, maybe 7 broken XBox 360 is a record, but was covered in-depth by few media as well.

You want me to ask around on NeoGAF for reactions to your allegations these guys may be lying? Please investigate further yourself if you find any discrepancies.

@MikeB

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You want me to ask around on NeoGAF for reactions to your allegations these guys may be lying?

No I don't.

But look other 360 threads that aren't NeoGAF are just as valid. TeamXbox is one example of groups that love the 360. They are expressing problems with the 360. There's no doubt anywhere there are issues. However, they are also reporting that since the 1 year extension announcements by Microsoft that response times have improved and 1 year warranties honored and overall service has been improved. The only posts about charging under 1 year since that time have turned out someone has opened their 360 breaking warranty seals. Now one wouldn't expect Microsoft to honor a free repair on a broken warrany seal as no other company would do it either.

Perhaps they did have this issue. If so other threads that are NeoGAF aren't supporting this experience as standard. There's no excuse if that user(s) did get treated poorly. However, if you read more then NeoGAF you will quickly see that is much more likely isolated then the majority of cases at this point in time.

Now don't forget at one time 90 days was the standard warranty and charges were had outside, those have since been credited back. But, it doesn't mean people aren't still ####ed about that whole situation. So be sure the actual dates he's reporting is after the 1 year warranty extension.

@MikeB

The PS3 is $445 USD in Japan. Guess who's eating that difference?

Last edited by Lou on 30-May-2007 at 04:28 PM.