@gnarly

I only have one thing to say about Apple...after 21 years they've finally made an Amiga CD32

hehe

_________________
-- --
aka Tony Rocks

I think you are ALL SOOOO WRONG!!!!
Sorry, if you disagree...
or maybe you're all just putting on a brave face, but I really think you guys need a reality check....Sorry if it constitues flaming or Trolling or whatever else, but I am compelled ot give you my opinion, and those of geeky friends I recently talked to about this.

This iMac Mini constitues a DEVESTATING blow for the POTENTIAL Amiga market.
I am really angry about this because I really wanted to see Amiga competitive again. This thing steals the next gen Amiga's thunder.

This case is not ugly at all. Its really cute. If an A1 came out looking like that I would have let out of a sigh of relief that they hadn't botched it up.... We would be celebrating, and proclaim this thing to be the best thing since sliced bread.

You wish you could fit a uA1 in a case that big. The little cubid case is the closest thing and its a monster size by comparison. A lot of people were hanging out for the uA1 because at least it was small, thus making it cool. Now this apple box is as big as the uA1 mobo in width and height just by itself, thus making it even cooler. Hell its only slightly bigger that 5 cd cases stacked on top of eachother.

Its got a G4 while the uA1, which IS the same market for a lot of people, has a G3. WTF!!!

Look, it beats an uA1 in price, specs, size(uA1), has a fancy UI, a well regarded OS, sophisticated software and orders of magnitude more of it, and it is THE alternative to Wintel dominance. It can't get much better than this. Hell, the FSB is probably 3 times as fast as A1!! We can oppose Wintel all we want, and beg for a viable Amiga alternative all we want....but this Mini bangs us on the head.....rather hard. And iTunes IS THE KILLER APP!!!!! My bro practically when out of his mind when he saw this as he was planning on buying an iPod and shoving his PC.

Its will be a devestating blow for the potential Amiga market and let me tell you why. It now becomes practically impossible for an Amigan to realistically testify to a newbie that Amiga is the best, chuck out the rest. You can argue all you want that the A1 isn't for newbies, but that is like cutting off your own legs. It even becomes harder and harder for even a fanatical Amigan to justify the expense of an A1. I'd hate to say it, but I've always wanted to have a Mac but couldn't justify the expense. But at this price I can.

Its unfortunate that this item is now at the top of my list of computer items to buy followed by an A1. But then if I get use to this, then how can I buy an A1? When you can convince someone like me, that logs on here 5 times a day, that an A1 is not the top of my wishlist, then the Amiga platform is in BIG trouble.

Sure, I'd feel like traitor and hate myself for a while when I purchase an iMac Mini, but then I am now convinced that you guys really have all taken leave of your senses.

If I had the money right now, I'd have made an order already. I really hope KMOS release something GOOD, and SOON so I can stop myself. Just yesterday a family member was asking me for advice on an easy PC, and today I would recommend this over a PC. Can't even mention an Amiga yet.....still feel guilty for recommending an A500 in 93.

I would imagine that the PPC AROS port will pick up pace right now and bounties will go up once people get these Minis in their hands. The MorphOS boys are probably having a think right now too. This has enough significance that it could split the community again. YES, ITS THAT BAD!!! So, what will we call these people? Tangerine? Grey? White?

And saying that we'd already lost the battle in the market doesn't lessen my dissappointment.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@Rogue

"In how far is a Mac at $500 more attractive than a Wintel PC at $300? Why does that rock any market?"

1. Nice (and pretty, damn you) little case that'll fit as nicely on a desk as under a telly
2. Whisper quiet operation
3. Comes with a full-blown OS complete with developer tools
4. Includes everything you need in the home. An office suite (aging, but it works well enough), GarageBand 2, iPhoto, iMovie (with high definition support!), iDVD, dvd player, decent browser and basically everything else you need to get started.
5. Has in/out for pretty much everything you need including dv-cams
6. Hooks up to a telly easily and with great quality (yes, a PC can do that with a nice gfx card too, but I'd rather not have to fight to get it)

The fact that the store was just impossible to reach for almost 24 hours (even though at least some of it was hosted on akadns) should tell you that they've got something very special here.

I definitely agree with Bobson - this one knocks the living daylights out of most other stuff out there. And what we should worry about is the people who are sitting on the fence with their old Amigas who suddenly see this machine at 2/3 the price and has many more features.

Yes, OS4 and the micro are very nice, and I agree with the economies of scale and so on, but I definitely think it's a very real danger for us. It's THAT tempting. Heck, I feel like buying two even though I don't need one.

@GadgetMaster

Quote:

GadgetMaster wrote: One possible benefit is that there will be a few more PPC boxes out there. More people might realise that clock speed isn't everything. When average Joe public see that a 1.2 Ghz machine can surf the web just as good as an Intel or AMD 3+ Ghz based one they might be surprised.

Wonder why you'd use a Apple boxen over an AMD Geode to surf the web?
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330_12264_12262,00.html
1.1 Watt is pretty impressive. Especially for those countries for electricity is expensive and more difficult to come by.

@Rogue

Dell's $450 box has intel integrated graphics, which is absolutely horrid. I'd much prefer a Radeon 9200 :)

So do many other cheap "brand name" pc's.

Of course if you put it together yourself, you can get that magical $500 with a far better gfx card.

_________________
---
Sibbi

Disclaimer:
The opinions stated do not neccesarily represent those of my employer.

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

BigBentheAussie wrote: This iMac Mini constitues a DEVESTATING blow for the POTENTIAL Amiga market. I am really angry about this because I really wanted to see Amiga competitive again. This thing steals the next gen Amiga's thunder.

Well yes and no.

AmigaOS is not MacOS and is not Windoze. Each have their advantages and disadvantages.

As a PC user the iMac Mini has no draw for me. I don't want to buy office again. I don't want to buy all of my games again. I'd rather replace PC hardware and keep software then take on the expense of new hardware and new software, which is what the iMac Mini means to me as a PC user.

As an Amiga user the iMac Mini has no draw for me. I don't want to buy Photoshop to replace ImageFX. The Amiga surfing the web is a bit restricted as we're not as full featured in the browsers but 90+% of what I need to do is there. I don't want to again buy new hardware and new software as the Mini doesn't run Amiga stuff.

Right now I work in the computer industry. I do Solaris, Irix, Linux, and Windows. At home I do Amiga cuz it's my favorite. I do Windows because I get gainful employment from it. There's really no room for a Mac in my world. Don't need it for a job and already have 1 hobby computer. I guess I don't need 2 and replacement of the Mac for my PC just isn't an option.

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @BukkY One may have to beef up the interconnects between the nodes.

Probably not. Many clusters work just fine on 100Mb/s ethernet.

If you need more speed there's a Firewire connector. I don't do Macs much but I've been able to get a Firewire LAN configured on PCs. So TCP/IP over IEEE1394 isn't out of the question.

I think Apple's Rendezvous might work over Firewire for networking..

@BrianK

MAC only represents 1% of computers out there anyways This is not a devastating blow. Sure it will sell, but it is a niche thing. i don't see it having much staying power. Kinda like myself since I am over 30. Wait, i think I said too much.

_________________
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aka Tony Rocks

@BrianK

Is there anything like iTunes on Amiga?
Is there anything like iMovie on Amiga?

Two killer apps we ain't got an alternative for.

Quote:

I don't want to buy office again. I don't want to buy all of my games again.

Oi....Surely OpenOffice got ported to Mac, so there's your office problem sorted and its free.
And as for Games? You can hardly buy any games for an A1 right now anyway. My argument is based on people wanting to make the shift from PC to another platform.... So based on your arguments against a Mac purchase an A1 couldn't even come close to being right for you.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@BigBentheAussie

By the time the Amiga becomes ready to be competitive there will be something else on the market. Look at 2 years down the line at best.

Besides, given there is some bar now to compete with, supplied by Apple, things just got more interesting, IMHO.

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

I'd hate to say it, but I've always wanted to have a Mac but couldn't justify the expense. But at this price I can. Its unfortunate that this item is now at the top of my list of computer items to buy followed by an A1. But then if I get use to this, then how can I buy an A1? When you can convince someone like me, that logs on here 5 times a day, that an A1 is not the top of my wishlist, then the Amiga platform is in BIG trouble. Sure, I'd feel like traitor and hate myself for a while when I purchase an iMac Mini, but then I am now convinced that you guys really have all taken leave of your senses. If I had the money right now, I'd have made an order already.

Snap! The same thoughts occurred to me - I'd love an µA1, but I want the Industry version, and a release-version of OS4.
After seeing the miniMac, I'd love one - and with a bit of overtime (or saving!) I could probably afford one... but then I'd be hard pressed to justify getting an A1 - when they're released.

Bum.

_________________

@Chunder

Snap again. Looks like I'll not be getting an A1 for some time now.

_________________
...

Have to agree that BigBentheAussie has got many good points.

I want to buy that new mac also, the only thing stopping me right now is that I might not have the time to use it much so I can just as well wait. Also I don't know a single person who has a mac, so that is also kind of stopping me, but for how long..

The first computer I ever used was a Macintosh Plus back in 86/87, when I was 6-7 years old. :) I remember I spent many hours infront of it playing Dark Castle and lots of shareware games. :) I must admit I kind of miss the old mac community, wonder if it still's there.. With some of the same shareware games etc.. :)

Anyway, if this hadn't been released I might have bought a microA1, even though I already have an amigaone. But this is smaller, so I must buy this instead. ;)

@Chunder

Yes, but I dont see why Amiga users are expected to be some sort of sales force trying to convince people
( when frankly the platform is not ready to "compete" ) that needs to actively convince anyone. We make our own choices and
so should everyone else.


My take

If someone doesn't even bother considering an Amiga, thats their choice.

If someone considers it, and chooses something else, thats their choice.

If someone considers it, and chooses it, then great.

As for this that you agreed with:

Quote:

... but then I am now convinced that you guys really have all taken leave of your senses

I personally found that comment offensive, a generalisation etc. I think right now BigBenTheAussie should try and convince "you guys"
that he is worth them spending time on trying to convince.

If you or he disagrees with an individual, or a group of individuals, on an opinion or view or even finds that view to be nonsensical, in future it would be more courteus to identify whom and what the disagreement is about.

respect--;

@DaveP

Hmm, we agree. Again.

This is becoming annoying.

What the heck though.

postcount++;

_________________
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Sibbi

Disclaimer:
The opinions stated do not neccesarily represent those of my employer.

@DaveP

Fine, the only way to prove or disprove my point, that people without an A1 right now that want a platform other than Wintel would rather choose an iMac Mini over an A1 would be to start a poll.

I dare you take a poll.

Ah, but that will never happen, and would only make things worse for Eyetech.....feel free to mod this.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@BigBentheAussie

You can create your own forum thread and create a topic there to start a poll if you think its worthwhile.

I find your implication that we actively suppress anything that might damage Eyetech to be equally pugnacious and counter to the editorial decisions that are taken on this site.

If you look at my comment on page #1 of this thread, you will see that I intend to buy one of these mini macs when
they become available and when I have the money to do so.

You will also do me the courtesy of reading back a few pages where I wrote about people who are buying just to escape "wintel" before talking about proving or disproving a point.

In fact, Im not sure I see what your point is, unless you once had unrealistic expectations about what AmigaOS4 and A1 would achieve in terms of competitiveness. Ive said for a long time that it would take up to 5 years of hard work and sacrifice by developers and users before the Amiga platform was even READY to compete with the Mac let alone Windows. I did not however label anyone that disagreed with that as insane and I actually went ahead and invested money in the platform despite my opinions ( and in fact because of them ).

I remember a company ???? who used to advertise in Amiga Shopper suddenly in 1996 advertising Macs instead because they were cheaper, available, better than the Amigas at the time. Yep. I thought about it and decided not to, I bought a second PC instead as well as keeping my Amiga because I was in it for the enjoyment I got out of it not out of some anti-MicroSoft or anti-Intel angst. However some did switch and others you see didn't switch as they are members of aw.net today. However, those that sayed are they any the more or less insane for not jumping ship then, rather than how nearly 8 years later?

( edit, wasnt grasshopper, buggered if I can remember who it was though, 2 page glossy adverts with paragraph proclaiming Amiga being dead, buy a powermac instead and doing a price comparison of an amiga with all the kit needed to use it and a mac with the same and the mac came out cheaper with better specs - anyone remember it ? )

There is a phrase, "sh1t or get off the pot". I think it applies.

Last edited by DaveP on 12-Jan-2005 at 04:23 PM.

@DaveP

Quote:

I find your implication that we actively suppress anything that might damage Eyetech to be equally pugnacious and counter to the editorial decisions that are taken on this site.

Oh, Ok, glad to hear it. It wasn't a personal attack or anything. TV channels do this for their sponsors all the time so I would have understood if Amigaworld did....I'm glad you find modding in this case as abhorent as I would.

Yep, there will always be Amigans......but I wish for growing the userbase as quickly as possible rather than stagnation for years. My expectations are probably too high I concede....And I think I was pointing out that this has become a little harder to succeed, at least to my satisfaction.............but who am I right.....Nobody.....Just like all the nobodies who would really want an A1 to be proud of.

Errr.... was I being pugnacious then?.....If so, sorry.

There's a dunny in here...... Ahhhh!!!

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Is there anything like iTunes on Amiga?

At this time neither the Amiga nor any other platform has the locked-in monopolistic iTunes deployment from Apple.

I'd like to see the Amiga Java improved so it could use an ethernet connected player like a Rio Karma. Then you could choose from a number of store, not just the Apple store, and you could choose from a number of players, not just the iPod. It'll be interesting to see where the lawsuit about Apple being anti-competitive on this front will go.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4151009.stm


Quote:

Is there anything like iMovie on Amiga?

Didn't the Amiga start the desktop revolution with the Video Toaster? Are you telling me that all video mixing software for the Amiga no longer works?


Quote:

Surely OpenOffice got ported to Mac, so there's your office problem sorted and its free

Yes the AmigaOS4 needs to get an office suite and various other improvements to compete with Apple and Microsoft. These will hopefully come over the next 5 years. But, the Amiga has never had a good competition in the spreadsheet area. It's adequte in some of the solutions, IMHO.

@BigBentheAussie

I think we both want the same thing, if you can look at the stark reality - that
any kind of massive revival ( and we are seeing some kind of revival - the top browser
that hits amigaworld.net now is IBrowse for OS4 rather than IE a year ago ) is only going
to come after the following criteria:

1. A lot of hard work has been completed to make AmigaOS as polished, user friendly and responsive as possible.
2. A lot of hard work has been completed to flesh out the portfolio of native software on AmigaOS running on PPC and make it as useful for home productivity as possible
3. A lot of people have bought Amiga addons, uA1s or A1s to run the new AmigaOS and its software ( despite it not being a particularly attractive proposition as a consumer buy ), enough to enable one of the manufacturers to go to a bank or an investor and say "there are 50,000 more potential sales if we release something at price point X" and have the evidence to win that backing.
4. The community gets a hell of a lot nicer and tolerant towards each other.

Once all those things are achieved, then I think we can start comparing ourselves with Macs and kicking some serious arse. Between now and then is a lot of hard graft
and sacrifice for a lot of people that want to make it happen.

You can either be one of them making the sacrifice or someone who waits for all 4 to be achieved before taking the plunge. What matters is that we all accept that this is the likely reality of the situation
and despite this carry on and knuckle down to move the platform towards this end. Unless we do that, it ain't going anywhere and we are all just going to bicker about something
we can't fix that easily.

Only those that risk, reap dividends. In order to reap the dividends you desire we have to take a collective risk.

Regards

Dave.