@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: Well they do and the problem is that their track record (PS1, PS2, PSP) isn't that good from a hardware quality perspective. I just bought the original God of War (PS2) for a mere 14 Euros. Plays great so far on my PS3!

I'm not talking software, just hardware.

Quote:

What hardware issues are you talking about with regard to the PSP? I am starting to get interested in the device, should I wait for a possible redesign?

Twisting the unit accidentally during heated gameplay causes the UMD to fly out.
One of the 4 main buttons gets stuck. Crappy analog stick.
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4010
http://www.gamingworldx.com/news/SonyDealsWithPSPProblems.shtml

The battery life has improved since launch... Not as many "dead pixels" these days either....

Supposedly a redesign is coming... I'd wait. However if you are just going to use it as a rear-view mirror, buy a cheap used one. Oh and buy Final Fantasy Tactics Remake.


...
In France:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/its-french/french-wine-dine-nintendo-consoles-264678.php
Quote:

The Wii has sold an impressive 410,000 units since December, while the DS is even more impressive, with 2.54 million sold since launch. Accompanying the big Nintendo love-in were some first-quarter figures for all consoles: DS - 398,000 Wii - 230,000 PS2 - 92,000 PSP - 90,000 PS3 - 81,000 360 - 43,000

Last edited by Lou on 31-May-2007 at 01:29 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 31-May-2007 at 01:28 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 31-May-2007 at 01:12 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 31-May-2007 at 01:08 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Manhunt 2 coming to a Wii near you

Does that look like next gen to you or rather a PS2 / GameCube spec game?

Compare with some upcoming PS3 games:

Low res shots:

http://i7.tinypic.com/67fqqhj.jpg
http://i8.tinypic.com/4mn0qqx.jpg

http://i11.tinypic.com/4kx6lmv.jpg
http://i18.tinypic.com/63b5fg0.jpg

http://i8.tinypic.com/637uhl4.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/5414yeb.jpg

http://i12.tinypic.com/6af409h.jpg

http://i19.tinypic.com/4r15n5g.jpg
http://i18.tinypic.com/52p8m1i.jpg

http://i14.tinypic.com/4y67fbq.jpg

http://i17.tinypic.com/4pl0rjk.jpg

http://i12.tinypic.com/52kwd9c.jpg
http://i18.tinypic.com/53fggnn.jpg

http://i13.tinypic.com/6ag5xyh.jpg
http://i10.tinypic.com/68hme7t.jpg

@Lou

Quote:

I'm not talking software, just hardware.

Sorry just wanted to share my experience.

Quote:

Supposedly a redesign is coming...

Probably I'll wait and see what happens around christmas, though there's gonna be so much software available for the PS3 I'm interested in as well... I suspect this is going to be the most expesive holidays season for me to date...

Last edited by MikeB on 31-May-2007 at 01:21 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: Manhunt 2 coming to a Wii near you Does that look like next gen to you or rather a PS2 / GameCube spec game? Compare with some upcoming PS3 games: Low res shots: http://i7.tinypic.com/67fqqhj.jpg http://i8.tinypic.com/4mn0qqx.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/4kx6lmv.jpg http://i18.tinypic.com/63b5fg0.jpg http://i8.tinypic.com/637uhl4.jpg http://i15.tinypic.com/5414yeb.jpg http://i12.tinypic.com/6af409h.jpg http://i19.tinypic.com/4r15n5g.jpg http://i18.tinypic.com/52p8m1i.jpg http://i14.tinypic.com/4y67fbq.jpg http://i17.tinypic.com/4pl0rjk.jpg http://i12.tinypic.com/52kwd9c.jpg http://i18.tinypic.com/53fggnn.jpg http://i13.tinypic.com/6ag5xyh.jpg http://i10.tinypic.com/68hme7t.jpg

Lol, I knew you would do that.

Anyway, the Wii graphics are good enough for me...and PLENTY for most people.

I can achieve those graphics you posted on my PC so there is no need to spend extra money on a 360 or PS3. The Wii's gameplay mechanics are what intrigues me. In that game (Manhunt 2), when sawing a person in half, you have to move the Wii remote back and forth - you just don't get that kind of gameplay immersion in a PC/360/PS3.

Gameplay > Graphics

Graphics just make you go wow for a bit, then it's "oh"... If the gameplay isn't there, graphics won't save it. Most consumers are turned off by complex games requiring 14 buttons and a dual-analog stick control. The Wii's controllers simply make things more natural to the "non-game" and suddenly the become a gamer.

Let me give you an example:

Tennis game for typical controller: 4 buttons to control 4 different swings: lob, over the top power spike, forehand, backhand... "new gamer" always has to look down to see what button to press and is very frustrated for the first 15 minutes and just quits.

On the Wii (Wii Sports - Tennis), you say "just swing it like you'd hit it for real" and then after the timing gets better after a few swings, they are happily playing.
And that will always be more engaging than a game like Virtua Tennis with 1080p graphics.

Last edited by Lou on 31-May-2007 at 01:25 PM.

@MikeB

Example of an idiot blowing on a motherboard with an paint stripper heatgun. There's no motherboard in the market that will not warp like that if you super heat it while it's not held by screws. The problem with the XBox360 motherboard is a combination of the fact that the motherboard is not held securely enough to avoid warping and the fact that there's no metal backplate behind the CPU to counteract warping by pressing on the CPU and the board.

_________________

@Lou

Quote:

Gameplay > Graphics

Yes, but you can have good gameplay together with next gen graphics and game complexity as well.

Like I said before the Wii remote is really cool for some types of games, but not so much for all types of games.

And you must have a very beefy PC, judging from the Rachet & Clank videos I would say I don't think my PC is anywhere up to the task and would rather play on a large TV using the PS3 controller anyhow.

@AMiGR

Quote:

Example of an idiot blowing on a motherboard with an paint stripper heatgun

Heat guns are used by many XBox 360 users as one of the tricks to temporary "fix" broken boards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5nfmJTQJr8

@MikeB

Heating up part of the board so much while the rest of it is cold is one of the most foolish things one can do, especially with a paint stripper instead of an electronics grade temperature-controlled heatgun.

_________________

MikeB wrote:

Quote:

Heat guns are used by many XBox 360 users as one of the tricks to temporary "fix" broken boards:

But if everything fails, you can still use the XBox 360 as an egg cooker!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLabckoPC0g

@AMiGR

Quote:

Heating up part of the board so much

I think this is what the GPU and CPU are doing, to quote the video:

"Microsoft used cheap solter that unsticks easily"

@MikeB

Quote:

My original 2005 brick was repaired for free out of warranty ... They send me a refurb that is only covered for 90 days because it was a free repair.

So the question begs what was wrong that he was able to obtain a free repair? Also is 90 days all that bad? He's got a console out of warranty already so Microsoft likely didn't have to repair free. Now he's got a console with 90 days of warranty, a warranty he didn't have before. Sounds like a bit of an upgrade.

Quote:

They sent me a busted console, They screwed up and I payed for it. This is unacceptable and insulting to me as a consumer. Shouldn't a refurb be "like new"? Why would they not stand behind the refurbs they are sending out?

If his refurb has a 90 day warranty he would at most have to pay shipping back. Yeah the cost and hassle is annoying. But, this user is making a claim that Microsoft isn't standing behind the refurbs.. Did Microsoft not honor the 90 day warranty he mentioned before?

Quote:

How am I supposed to react when a company tells me I have no options and there is no path for me to take?

I guess what I can relate to you is Sony told me I had to buy a new PS2 because it was out of warranty and they wouldn't repair. It was frustating. Seems Microsoft in this case was better as they repaired an out of warranty item without charge and gave him a new 90 day warranty to back that repair or in this case the refurb console he received. Both events are indeed frustrating.

As I was with Sony I feel their stupid laser issues in the PS2 was their issue but it was out of warranty and I was basically yeah screwed. My choices were sell my PS games or buy a new console, I choose the later, though I can say I significantly decreased buying new games.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think this is what the GPU and CPU are doing, to quote the video:

Er, a CPU and a GPU would not heat the board anywhere near the temperatures of an electronics heat-gun, let alone a paint stripper. A typical temperature range of an SMD rework heatgun is 100-500C, controlled. A cheap paint stripper's temperature is usually just controlled by the power dissipation of the heating element and possibly a bimetallic strip thermostat, while good ones are temperature controlled up to 650C.

Now, which CPU would ever dissipate enough heat to reach those temperatures under normal operation with even a passively cooled heatsink?

Quote:

"Microsoft used cheap solter that unsticks easily"

Nonsense. It's not the solder, it's the fact that the board warps, breaking the solder joints. The CPU is a fairly solid piece in comparison to the board, it cannot bend as much as the board, hence the solder joints break. They need to cool the system more efficiently and provide extra support around the CPU and GPU, 4 more screws and a metal plate would do the job, I guess.

I think that all these problems arise due to the fact that the Xenon was probably supposed to be 65nm, not 90nm.

Last edited by AMiGR on 31-May-2007 at 03:02 PM.

_________________

@MikeB

Quote:

I think this is what the GPU and CPU are doing, to quote the video: "Microsoft used cheap solter that unsticks easily"

In newer 360s they've given an extra level of security by gluing the CPU and GPU in place. Reports are this seems to work better but isn't the perfect solution. One has to wonder what other changes have been made as reports on the launch unit were of more failures then newer units, though yes there are still failures.

When the 65nm comes out I wonder how much cooler the CPU will be and if that alone may be enough to help improve the warping issues.

@BrianK

Quote:

In newer 360s they've given an extra level of security by gluing the CPU and GPU in place. Reports are this seems to work better but isn't the perfect solution. One has to wonder what other changes have been made as reports on the launch unit were of more failures then newer units, though yes there are still failures.

The Elite motherboard seems to have less beefy SPMS's, so I guess that something is using less power.

Quote:

When the 65nm comes out I wonder how much cooler the CPU will be and if that alone may be enough to help improve the warping issues.

Should be.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

The Elite motherboard seems to have less beefy SPMS's, so I guess that something is using less power.

Definitely. Somewhere in this mess of pages I linked to a site that had images of the Elite motherboard and the non-elite motherboard.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think if Sony would not make gaming systems and compete with Microsoft and Nintendo, there would be a lot less criticism outed on these forums. Sony is in the spotlight a lot as a company with the most powerful brandname and has to deal with a lot of rival fanboyism. A Dutch saying goes. the tallest trees catch the most wind.

Who's really the tallest tree here, I wonder?

People only respond to other people's posts. How did you respond to someone posting Wii screenshots? By rubbishing the Wii's graphics. Now times that by the number of PS3 screenshots you've posted in the last 12 months...

In my post, I singled Apple out for the exact same criticism as Sony. I'm using my beloved 1997 PowerMac right now, for heaven's sake! You ignored my actual post, but answered in kind by vaguely accusing people of being fanboys. I don't get it - am I an anti-Mac fanboy now?

For once, I really tried.

Chris

@clebin

Quote:

People only respond to other people's posts. How did you respond to someone posting Wii screenshots? By rubbishing the Wii's graphics. Now times that by the number of PS3 screenshots you've posted in the last 12 months...

Well this thread regards XBox 360 vs PS3 gaming experiences. I wondered why those screenshots were posted, I wondered if it was about the graphics.

I have been playing some PS2 games on the PS3, like God of War and Jak 3 and those games look better than what I saw in those screenshots, it also doesn't look like a type of game which would benefit from the Wii-mote...

The Nintendo Wii power seems to be very current gen and that's not all bad, it means they can also offer the device at current gen prices.

Quote:

In my post, I singled Apple out for the exact same criticism as Sony. I'm using my beloved 1997 PowerMac right now, for heaven's sake! You ignored my actual post, but answered in kind by vaguely accusing people of being fanboys. I don't get it - am I an anti-Mac fanboy now?

Technology wise I think the PS3 is underpriced everywhere around the world and I can understand why there may be good reasons for the price differences. At this point by lowering prices pushing for more sales would not help Sony financially at all, selling more hardware at a greater loss. That's not to say I don't think this will happen before the end of the year as Sony looks at the platform as a longterm investment and additional HDTV sales may help to ease the loss from a larger perspective a bit.

So, I simply don't share your perspectives. Amigas costed more than Atari STs initially and the Atari ST outsold the Amiga with good numbers initially. But that doesn't mean I think the Amiga was heavily overpriced in comparison, if you look at the technology. But the Amiga was more 'overpriced" than the PS3 as they were actually making money on the hardware.

@MikeB

I specifically said I was not comparing one product against another, but straight away you're comparing Amiga and ST again.

I made a point about the disparity of prices between a single product in Europe and the same product elsewhere. Put the Xbox out of your mind.


Edit: and please don't quote the thread title back to me. You have posted a great deal of stuff that doesn't concern the 360 directly.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 01-Jun-2007 at 01:19 AM.

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: When are you going to realize that it is your that stirs the pot...?

I guess you missed I was right all along.
I can't remember I can say the same for you.

Stick to the facts Lou, that's all I'm asking for.

Life can be really simple, as long as you are willing to be open for a real discussion and accurately reading the answers of the others.

And that doesn't include retracting statements, falsely accusing other people of misquoting and twisting posts of others and especially wishing them a timely death.

@clebin

Quote:

I specifically said I was not comparing one product against another, but straight away you're comparing Amiga and ST again.

So? You weren't speaking for me. I think most people here can relate to the Amiga and I used that as an example why I don't really agree.

Quote:

Edit: and please don't quote the thread title back to me. You have posted a great deal of stuff that doesn't concern the 360 directly.

Yes, I have replied to off topic discussion. So what? Earlier in this thread people were fighting about things not even remotely related tot the topic.