@BigBentheAussie
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This iMac Mini constitues a DEVESTATING blow for the POTENTIAL Amiga market. I am really angry about this because I really wanted to see Amiga competitive again. This thing steals the next gen Amiga's thunder.

The iMac mini is not going to kill the emerging next gen Amiga market. People who want a next gen Amiga, running OS4, will buy a micro A1 because it runs Amiga OS and they can put it in their own choice of case and has a highly customized system. It won't steal people from the Amiga's user base, I heard about the Mini Mac and ordered a micro A1, so it didn't work on me! Or did it?!

The way I see it Eyetech/Amiga Inc./Hyperion won't be in the position to release something like the Mac Mini to the market for at least five years, when you consider:
1. Scale of production, Apple will expect to ship these in their million, not thousands like the micro A1
2. Marketing
3. Support services
4. Supply chain
5. R&D, venture capital availability
6. Availability of apps, up-to-date web browser for starters

It just isn't realistic to expect a product truely comparable to the Mac mini from Amiga yet, it's just too early on, there's still a long way to go.

If think the Mac Mini will be GOOD for the Amiga, it should:
1. Foster interest in and awareness of alternative platforms (users and developers a like)
2. Deepen the penetration of PPC based computers into the market
3. Lead to increased production of PPC hardware, wider market for PPC chips, costs fall, etc.
4 .Develop the market for compact, multipurpose, home computers which sit in the living room rather than the office

@BigBentheAussie

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Is there anything like iTunes on Amiga? Is there anything like iMovie on Amiga? Two killer apps we ain't got an alternative for.

Hardly, WIndows XP comes with MediaPlayer and MovieMaker. These aren't killer apps, any serious contender in the home PC market should have such apps available.

I would love to see an iTunes style program for OS4 (not bundled with the OS though). Play back, CD burning, ripping, library maangement, etc. We can do all this already but it would be nice to have an app which pulls these different tasks together.

@wegster

Quote:

This is actually a pretty cool system. Of course, it annoys me now about what I paid for my used dual G4, but s'ok

Definately, but I think they've made a few mistakes:

1) They should have just had standard VGA connector on the mobo and skipped the DVI, this is a budget machine, people will probably want a 'budget' screen to go with it and they mostly have VGA, not DVI.

2) TV out - this surely should have TV out, like uA1!

3) Cordless keyboard and mouse connectibity built in - thinking in terms of getting it into living rooms + laptop size keyboard to complement the small size of the machine.

4) 2 front USB connections, for USB pen drives, game pads etc.

5. Choice of colours, like the iPod mini, e.g. a black model and a silver model which would look aesthetically pleasing next to your plasma TV or home cinema system.

Hi BigBentheAussie,


I was waiting for a comment by you, which are always very detailed and enjoyable to read.


Think about this, the Playstaion III and x-$-x II, which will be available in 9 months, or so, what CAN'T they do, that this could?

They will be faster, half the price, and easier to set up. They will have 70% to 90% of the features of this computer. With their USB port, you'll probably be able to even PRINT stuff you browse off of the net, with these next gen "game systems".


What they will lack is an OS, that a computer provides. Someone will hack linux onto them, of couse, oh boy, what joy!

They will knock this off the radar, and the clones will undercut, just because they can! HP or Dell, or Toshiba, or maybe even Palm will have something to say about this, I beileve this fully.


The thing about Amiga is, it is FUN to use. I don't think using the Mac OS will give the same experience, at all.


I love playing with scripts, trying to make it boot from the ram: drive properly, making custom boot disks, etc. etc. and etc. (Okay, so my list is lacking, but you know what it entails.)

ms threw 30,000 programmers at it, and couldn't make a properly working OS, go figure. They're the "suits". It's crap, I tells ya.


If it doesn't use AOS, it isn't computer enough for me. I still intend to buy an XC later this year, no matter how much it costs. I'll find a way.



AmigaOne! AOS4.0! Am I a fanatic? No, I'm chasing perfection!

@dan.hutch

All of course my humble opinion.

1) The thing comes with a DVI->VGA converter, so that point is pretty much mute.

2.) The TV out converter costs ~15 ukp, many mac owners already have one. Would have been far nicer had it been included however. They are obviously doing this to make more money.

3.) They are counting on people to buy that as an optional extra (a $150 optional extra I might add), once again to make more money.

4.) USB hubs are cheap and plentyfull, the way they've designed the thing, putting ports on front would ruin the looks, by selling the hubs with the machine, they intend to make more money.

5.) There's nothing that says they won't do that and sell them slightly more expensive, once again, to make more money.

Apple isn't stupid, their base specs are very low, people buy the machine because it has a good "base price", then add extras, taking it to $800 or more, it's marketing, and it works just fine for them.

Last edited by sibbi on 12-Jan-2005 at 05:40 PM.

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Sibbi

Disclaimer:
The opinions stated do not neccesarily represent those of my employer.

@dan.hutch

To yourl ist of mistakes I'd add
2.5) More Memory

While they list 128MB as the bare minimum the Macs I've touched with OSX performed significantly better with 512MB they they did with either 256 or 128.

@sibbi

You have a point about all those accessories and add-ons, and that accessories page is only a click away too! I should have thought of this, having worked in computer sales, and knowing the importance of all those add-on sales to making a profit.

Trouble is, once you add a usb hub, cordless keyboard and mouse and so on your neat little computer will soon be hidden under a mass of cables and more boxes, hub, rf reciever, ipod dock, etc.

Does the system include any keyboard and mouse? Couldn't quite figure this out when looking on the Mac site

On point 1) I just think they could have reduced costs a bit a made the design cleaner by skipping the DVI and just having VGA, as I'm sure most will use VGA anyway.

4) Agree, USB ports on the front probably wouldn't do much for the looks, but then its a balancing act between looks and practicality ultimately, I also think it should have a headphone socket like the iMac use to have.

$499 to get a Mac, and then you can do the rest with apple out of the loop.

I have 1 gb of pc2700 memory that I got for less than a hundred, its quite a lot more than that at the apple store. I got my usb keyboard for $8, a mouse for about $4...and like many have said, it almost feels free, if you already own the adapter or hub, or monitor,e tc.

It may not really be free, but its great that you can get the Mac without being forced to buy an integrated monitor.

yes, for me, at least, I would have loved if they had just sold a 'motherboard' mac..and let me do the rest, but thats another issue, for another day. The mac mini is aimed at the pc users going into the Mac retail stores who are saying...I'd like to have a 2nd pc with Mac OS X, but where is the budget Mac?

So now, here it is....and now (in addition to the rabid Mac fan's who want another Mac for no apparent reason)...this will also help with the switchers... by the way, the switchers aren't really switching, they are just dual platform...and they aren't a mystery either, 45% of mac sales are going to first time pc buyers and pc owners already...this is just going to boost the numbers a bit.

So, its all good for Mac. It does mean, however...when you see the Linux people WILL get Linux ported to it...it makes you wish the AOS4 people had similar skills...and inclination.

We've seen the argument before...but its harder and harder to make the case that Amiga could be a hardware company...they need to be an OS vendor. in my humble opinion...but then again, I would say they need OS 4 to be about 20 times more advanced, with built in JVM, media center apps, protected memory, xcode or .net level IDE for free, etc.

it's not easy...but good luck!

@Atheist

Quote:

The thing about Amiga is, it is FUN to use. I don't think using the Mac OS will give the same experience, at all.

I'm afraid that's where you are wrong, Mac OS x (Panther) is sheer joy to use, just like Amiga OS is (but obviously not the same).

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SAM 460 with 2GB or RAM, 1000GB HD, 4 port SATA, DVDRW drive and Radeon HD 4650 GFX card.

Hi BigBentheAussie,


Okay, let's level the playing field.

If OS X, mswinpro, linux and AOS4.x was running on the SAME 3.x GHz x86 CPU, with same graphics board, sound, input/outputs, etc., and the same price, which would you choose?


So, then, does price alone compromise your principles? Those other OSs' WON'T change. They'll always be the way they are, or get more and more closed.


Often, doing the "right thing" exposes people to ridicule and is very costly, on one's behalf, but if you ARE right, that is a reward that is immeasurable that you've given to yourself.



(micro)AmigaOne! AOS4.x! Priceless!

@dan.hutch

There is no keyboard or mouse in the price no. Wireless bluetooth adapter + cordless keyboard/mouse will add $100 to the price. $150 if you want wireless network + cordless keyboard/mouse.

The reason for the DVI is so you can use the DVI->TV-out converter. Plus it's nice to have if you have a DVI input, in any case it's better to be stuck with DVI only than VGA only at this point in time. Both would have been nice though.

Last edited by sibbi on 12-Jan-2005 at 06:03 PM.

_________________
---
Sibbi

Disclaimer:
The opinions stated do not neccesarily represent those of my employer.

@DaveP

Quote:

Quote: ... but then I am now convinced that you guys really have all taken leave of your senses I personally found that comment offensive, a generalisation etc.

Yeah - I can see your point, but my take on the phrase was that the miniMac *will* draw sales, and arguing that it won't impact the A1 is futile.
Some of these sales will be people who are fed up with the PC world.
Some will already have a Mac, and want a new toy.
Some will already have an Amiga, and want a new toy, and perhaps something that has (at least an air of) being more modern and compliant with modern standards.
Some will not have a computer, and now see something they can afford which looks usable, friendly and reliable.

Any of these people could - with the right message - have been convinced to buy an AmigaOne (obviously once they're in full production, and the OS is released, and software is available)... but my argument, and I think what BBtA was getting at is that now that Apple has released the miniMac, why would anyone even look at the Amiga - apart from "insider" (community) knowledge, or perhaps nostalgia?

More expensive, less features, less support, less (modern) software - not a very good sales message

Anyway, I'm not about to jump ship after all these years; yes, I may fancy a miniMac - but it's probably just a phase that I'm going through; I need to get it out of my system
I still want OS4 on my A1200PPC, and I still want to buy a µA1-I

(Oh, and I'd also quite like a fling with one of these... :grin: )

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@Atheist

I would use AOS4.x for as much as possible, I think 90% of my computing time would be on this, and if I was desperate I would use Win XP - probably because I had a powerpoint to edit for work or something that I couldn't do on AOS4.x, so XP would count for about 10%.

I wouldn't bother with OSX and definately wouldn't touch linux, couldn't see any reason to to do so.

@Chunder

Quote:

Yeah - I can see your point, but my take on the phrase was that the miniMac *will* draw sales, and arguing that it won't impact the A1 is futile.

Most forum talk is futile. I list a bunch of things that I think Apple missed out when designing this MiniMac. But, I don't expect Steve Jobs to read it and go," yeah that dan.hutch knows his stuff lets change the design."

It's just fun to discuss and argue these things over, but ultimately pretty futile for the most path. Everyone wants to have their two cents, and there's nothing wrong with that. Arguing that the MiniMac will or won't affect A1 sales is futile and won't achieve much, but it is fun .

P.S. that case looks

@dan.hutch

Quote:

P.S. that case looks

What, you mean it looks shady?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Quote:

Chunder wrote: More expensive, less features, less support, less (modern) software - not a very good sales message

Hi Chunder,

And, not buying a (micro)AmigaOne now helps......?


Quote:

Chunder wrote: Anyway, I'm not about to jump ship after all these years;

Excellent!


Quote:

Chunder wrote: yes, I may fancy a miniMac - but it's probably just a phase that I'm going through; I need to get it out of my system

And into another One? NO! You can't leave the "system"...



AmigaOne! AOS4.0!
Chunder: "Who are you?"
: "The new Number Two"
Chunder: "Who is Number One?"
No. 2: "You are Number Six"
No. 6 (not Chunder): "I am not a number . . .I'm a free man!"

@Atheist



@thread

I suppose the benefit of having the DVI as a default is (a) as already mentioned, they supply a DVI-VGA adapter to allow you to use a standard monitor - no loss there, albeit perhaps slightly higher unit cost, and (b) it will enable people to use the bigger, better (and most likely Apple-branded) monitors over a standard VGA monitor.

@dan.hutch

Good points about the increase in awareness of PPC, and volume of production of the necessary chips... hopefully!

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@Trezzer

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1. Nice (and pretty, damn you) little case that'll fit as nicely on a desk as under a telly

Yeah, under the telly, then you don't need to see how ugly it really is

Quote:

2. Whisper quiet operation

Can also be achieved using a water cooler or passive cooling on Wintel.

Quote:

3. Comes with a full-blown OS complete with developer tools

Most Wintel PC's have WinXP installed as well.

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4. Includes everything you need in the home. An office suite (aging, but it works well enough), GarageBand 2, iPhoto, iMovie (with high definition support!), iDVD, dvd player, decent browser and basically everything else you need to get started.

That's the best point so far, although you can download Windows Media Producer for Windows and OpenOffice.org.

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5. Has in/out for pretty much everything you need including dv-cams

That holds true for almost all general retail PC as well.

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6. Hooks up to a telly easily and with great quality (yes, a PC can do that with a nice gfx card too, but I'd rather not have to fight to get it)

Huh? There is no problem attaching say a Radeon to a TV...

Quote:

Yes, OS4 and the micro are very nice, and I agree with the economies of scale and so on, but I definitely think it's a very real danger for us. It's THAT tempting. Heck, I feel like buying two even though I don't need one.

I honestly don't see this as more of a danger than the usual run-of-the-mill PC. Especially since with the PC you get the same effect like in old Amiga days - your next-door neighbour likely has one too.

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Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@RC

Quote:

I can feel the pull of the Darkside (okay it's just the Grayside, PC's are the true Darkside). But damn it's a heck of a temptation to have all that power in a box about the size of an old amiga external floppy drive.

Ok, I'm enjoying this Forum...let me tempt you with this:

Mini-Amiga2 (Hypothetical)
Cube case w/Amiga logo
1.25GHz PowerPC G4, Memory - 256 MB
Standard built in 40GB Hard drive AmigaOS4
Nvidia GPU with 64MB DDR non-shared memory.
BIOS - Uboot socketed, w/OS4 enabling code
North Bridge- Articia "S" or Artica "P"
South Bridge-VIA 82C686B (replaced with a superior chipset)

Ports:VGA output DVI output; S-Video, composite output
(1) JoyStick/Midi port (1) PS2 kb and (1) PS2 mouse ports
(4) USB 2.0 (2 front, 2 rear)
(1) FireWire
(1) 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet
(1) 56K v.92 fax modem
(1) SD or memory stick card port (front)
(1) Headphones front

retail price (production start) $600.00

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@BrianK
Quote:

BrianK wrote: @BigBentheAussie [quote] Is there anything like iTunes on Amiga? At this time neither the Amiga nor any other platform has the locked-in monopolistic iTunes deployment from Apple.

Do you people not know that iTunes has a Windows vers? I have tested in on my WinXP machine. (I never use it though) I'm sure they would port it to any platyform that would give more iTune sales and Ipod sales

Last edited by rinaldo00 on 12-Jan-2005 at 08:17 PM.