@BrianK

The new policy only regards games Microsoft is the distributer of, other games scratched by XBox 360 drives still isn't covered with the new policy, hopefully they just recall all effected XBox 360s and replace those drives with better ones. They've got enough money to do so and really this is too much of a serious issue to pretend as if nothing is wrong and shove their mess under the carpet.

@MikeB
The only time i have heard about scratches being a issue, is if the user is uncaring and leave the game lying around without putting it in the game case. Or if a move the xbox 360 while the disc is spinning.
I have rarely heard of a disc being scratched without the user being at fault or a rare case where the drive is broken.

@Tomas

Like I pointed towards earlier the XBox 360 failed indepedent tests as requested by a Dutch consumer protection TV program, the BBC a short while ago also reported on people having problems.

The XBox 360 drives people complained the most about lacked rubber cushions around the lens compared to the PC version of the drive, tests indicated the units scratched DVDs during normal usage conditions. Microsoft alledged users did not handle their XBox 360 with enough care, such as tilting the device, end users refuted such allegations and thus independent tests were conducted by an expert hardware company.

Last edited by MikeB on 03-Apr-2007 at 09:43 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 03-Apr-2007 at 09:41 PM.

@MikeB

After the annoucement of a resolution in the lawsuit involving Immersion over rumble technology...

In a video podcast during the GDC in March, Phil Harrison was asked point blank in a sit down interview with either IGN or Gamespot about rumble and their incompatibility claims and "rumble is last-gen" quotes.

His response: "Well, what did you expect me to say?"

It's either in an IGN Weekly video download or a GameScoop video podcast...

@MikeB

Quote:

The XBox 360 drives people complained the most about lacked rubber cushions around the lens compared to the PC version of the drive, tests indicated the units scratched DVDs during normal usage conditions. Microsoft alledged users did not handle their XBox 360 with enough care, such as tilting the device, end users refuted such allegations and thus independent tests were conducted by an expert hardware company.

Most drives I've ever opened up, including some PS2s I've dismantled, do not have cushions around the lens or anywhere near the disc for that matter. They all might damage any disc if used at any angle other than the horizontal or vertical.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

Most drives I've ever opened up, including some PS2s I've dismantled, do not have cushions around the lens or anywhere near the disc for that matter. They all might damage any disc if used at any angle other than the horizontal or vertical.

They compared the exact the same drive, the PC version of the drive which roughly identical to the XBox 360 drive apart from this alteration. I am not saying issues cannot be prevented otherwise.

With regard to the XBox 360 the researchers recommended to place the XBox 360 horizontally, as there were fewer issues as compared to placing the XBox 360 vertically.

@Trezzer

IMO with regard to some types of games the PS3 controller seems far more suitable with regard to motion sensing. For instance regarding driving IMO the PS3's Sixaxis is more suitable due to its form factor, which is easier to hold like a steering wheel with both hands.

Also for warhawks and flying dragons like in Lair the controller seems better to me in terms of form factor and overall usage (pressing button combinations and such while tilting the controller). However the Wii-mote can be used similar to a light-gun as well or other such pointing devices, which is great for some types of games like good old Duckhunt for the NES, developers can now assume every Wii owner to have such features by default.

So, IMO you should keep an open mind with regard to which approach and implementation people eventually prefer.

Last edited by MikeB on 03-Apr-2007 at 10:37 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

IMO the PS3's Sixaxis is more suitable due to its form factor, which is easier to hold like a steering wheel with both hands.

Driving games on Wii often come with a little adapter that turns the Wiimote into a steering wheel actually. There's a selection of other adapters too ranging from usable to silly.

As for your other examples... I can't really see where the sixaxis would be better than the wiimote - simply because the wiimote is smaller (longer, but much thinner) so you can easier hold it at whatever direction you see fit.

I'm not saying that the sixaxis won't have good use in some games. In fact I think it could be used as a nice extension to regular controls rather than full control in itself. Like imagine you're playing the old Star Wars game (the one from Amiga that was based on an arcade game) or Stunt Car Racer. Know how people tend to lean to one side or another to get that little bit extra? That's how I think it could work pretty well. Although it's preferable if it can be disabled completely. I think generally I would choose not to use it. Especially if it interferes with my rumble

@MikeB

Quote:

IMO with regard to some types of games the PS3 controller seems far more suitable with regard to motion sensing. For instance regarding driving IMO the PS3's Sixaxis is more suitable due to its form factor, which is easier to hold like a steering wheel with both hands.

Racing games is one of the rare games that i prefer the classic analog controller or a racing wheel. I have heard that the ps3 tilt function is not even responsive enough for these kinds of games. Also i would have truly preferred the old ps2 dual shock controller, due to the vibration. It is impossible on the ps3 to feel what kind of grip your car has, which is really a step back for me.
I really dont understand the idiots that decided to drop dual shock..

@Trezzer

Quote:

As for your other examples... I can't really see where the sixaxis would be better than the wiimote - simply because the wiimote is smaller (longer, but much thinner) so you can easier hold it at whatever direction you see fit.

Great for pointing like you do with your remote, not so good for holding with both hands and pressing buttons with both hands. I would prefer the Sixaxis with Fl0w as well, the Wii-mote however seems good for tennis or other games you can play with one hand.

@ Tomas

Quote:

have heard that the ps3 tilt function is not even responsive enough for these kinds of games.

It certainly is in Motorstorm.

Quote:

It is impossible on the ps3 to feel what kind of grip your car has

Vibration tells you that? If the road is slippery your car vibrates?

Quote:

I really dont understand the idiots that decided to drop dual shock

Legal matters, vibration will be supported later on to suit vibration fans as the legal matters have been resolved.

Last edited by MikeB on 03-Apr-2007 at 11:22 PM.

@MikeB
Quote:

Vibration tells you that? If the road is slippery your car vibrates?

Most racing simulation gives you a signal through the gamepad vibration to tell you what surface you are driving on, if your wheels lose grip and so on.
This is the case with most half decent ps2 racing games and xbox ones.
On the ps3 you will only have the sound to go by.

And i hope sony will start shipping dual shock controllers with the unit, or else this function will probably not be fully supported by all games.

Last edited by Tomas on 04-Apr-2007 at 12:28 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Legal matters, vibration will be supported later on to suit vibration fans as the legal matters have been resolved.

The legal matters have largerly been Sony's own issue. They lost and refused to pay. It's now grown from the original $90M to $150M and of course they have to pay to license the tech for future uses. Had they sucked up their loss back in 2002 they would have saved $60M and not po'ed the base who likes vibration.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aD4EnYnmB6uk&refer=japan

Instead they gave some crappy argument that vibration wouldn't work in the same controller. Of course Microsoft had one for the PC in the 90s that had motion sensing and vibration, clearly a false claim by Sony.

@BrianK
They claimed that vibration does not combine with tilt function?

@Tomas

At first, yeah. Then Kaz Hirai backed up a bit and merely said it would be prohibitively expensive and that's why they chose to go with motion sensing instead.

Of course we can safely assume it had nothing to do with the lawsuit or panic after Nintendo introduced the Wii and the world had laughed at the PS3 banana controller

@ Trezzer

It appears reports on high XBox 360 failure rates is not only the case for European units.

Here's an article from Canada (French. Queebec) talking about people's XBox 360 breakdown, apparently within warranty it takes Microsoft Canada up to 2 month to replace/repair units, but what's more worrying the article speaks of quite a few people experiencing up to 3 to 4 seperate cases of XBox 360 hardware failures (hopefully repeat failure receive priority service, 6-8 months without a console would truly suck)! That's really amazingly bad for a console only on the market for less than 1 and a half year!

So Trezzer I think your first XBox 360 which failed may not have been a co-incidence at all, similar issues were widespread at launch. But what will you do if your console fails again but outside of Microsoft\s warranty, and if you choose to cover the costs of repair what will you do if the console fails again and again?

PS3s are crap, XBox 360 rulez, right?

Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 09:21 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 09:14 AM.

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @MikeB After the annoucement of a resolution in the lawsuit involving Immersion over rumble technology... In a video podcast during the GDC in March, Phil Harrison was asked point blank in a sit down interview with either IGN or Gamespot about rumble and their incompatibility claims and "rumble is last-gen" quotes. His response: "Well, what did you expect me to say?" It's either in an IGN Weekly video download or a GameScoop video podcast...

That sounds like an open admission he was talking out of his behind.

I think honesty would have been the best policy, or at least some more moderation in the comments. Saying things like "last-gen" is just silly.

@MikeB

Quote:

PS3s are crap, XBox 360 rulez, right?

I think it goes without saying Xbox 360 has had quality issues, especially on launch. Luckily Microsoft has seemed to do the honorable thing with warranties. OTOH, my launch day unit still works like a charm nor have I had any scratched games problems.

@MikeB

Quote:

Legal matters, vibration will be supported later on to suit vibration fans as the legal matters have been resolved.

And THAT is exactly what Sony should have been saying from the get go, instead they chose the arrogant/weasel route of making all sorts of excuses and last-gen/not possible/not needed rhetoric.

I don't think rumble is only a fan favourite. I think it is essential, just like anologue sticks or the trigger buttons. Something we have come to expect from our console experience for good reason. I agree some don't like or need it, but Sony should have said the exact thing you now said, not the silly things they did.

The good thing, after the sillyness, is that rumble now is hopefully coming to PS3. I will be sure to pick up a shockaxis as soon as possible.

BTW, did see a ChillStream in a store today. Looked OK, the chill feature sounds nice. But it still has those analogue sticks positioned ackwardly (unlike Xbox 360) and no rumble yet... when rumble comes, I'll re-evaluate.

@MikeB

Quote:

But what will you do if your console fails again but outside of Microsoft\s warranty

Like I've said earlier: I always get an extended warranty for first generation hardware. Odds are that if the console lasted for the full three years, it will last for five.

But stuff like that happens. I happened with my Playstation 2 like it happened to many, many other peoples' Playstation 2s. I had to buy a new one. Stuff like that happens. Luckily at that point there's usually either some nice revised hardware out and/or the consoles are much cheaper.

I don't know what Microsoft are doing about warranty elsewhere, but both here and in the US the turnaround time for repairs is approximately five days.

Besides you may not want to get into what may or may not happen with PS3. It can very well be that they will start failing down the line - or considering that it's Sony: burst into flames.

But don't worry about that, 'cos Sony rul3z0rz, right?

@Trezzer

Quote:

Stuff like that happens.

I think the XBox 360 issues are extraordinary though.

@Trezzer

I find people complaining about XBox 360 issues without even looking for them all of the time! From a really nice message board filled with hardcore gamers.

Here's a message posted today:

Nemesis556: "Furthermore, with these freeze ups, I am not getting any messages about what is wrong with the system. "

"So, o humble GAF, can anyone help me out? Is my 360 ruined? =("

Responses so far:

Grecco: "No idea. Seems like a common occourence. If i play my 360 more than 5 hrs it now seems to freeze during loading screens. Happened Once in NBA Street and Twice in Marvel UA..."

schism: "Mine was doing that for a week or two, then it red ringed on me, I would say it is DCharlie: on the way out."

SpeedRazor: "I had this problem for about a week and then it red lighted me. It'll come eventually."

ColdBlooded33: "without even reading your post, when your #### is freezing without errors, its pretty much as good as gone. Red Lights of death will come to you soon. thats how mine died"

Burger: "I had exactly the same problem.

My xbox was shipped to Microsoft yesterday :("

Blackace: "me too.. took only 5 days to get mine back.. "

Drewsy: "I used to have the same exact problems that he did, even down to how the controller keeps rumbling. I also had a problem where the drive would pop open randomly during a game, and sometimes when inserting a disc the tray wouldn't stay closed and would immediately pop back open."

CorwinB: "I had the exact same problem with my launch unit, then with the launch unit they sent me to replace my initial launch unit (starting to see a pattern here, although the second one lasted nearly one year"

Jel0man: "our 360 is toast. I had the same. Couple of days later, I got the 3 rings of death."

arcader: "- you pretty much know its dieing and untill it does you cant really play games on it without freezing

- eventually it will die all together and you wont be able to play games on it then either

- finally you will need to ship it off to MSFT, during which time you wont be able to play games on it...

I like to play games on my consoles :("

DCharlie: "following one of the updates, i'd had this exact same problem - it was just out and out freezing but only with certain games"

With with regard to the PS3 there have been few complaints, most only regarding downscaling or upscaling if the TV in question did not do a good job itself, most of which have been fixed by firmware updates (more freedom to select output).

Burger:
Originally Posted by Nemesis556:
I'm giving a call to customer service now. Wish me luck =D

The only advise I could offer is if they start telling you to get out your wallet, get REALLY angry and start shouting.

Towards myself regarding my own issues with the XBox 360, Micrsoft's customer "care" has been anything but helpful suggestion I should buy new cables or something is wrong with my TV (my sister has the same problem on another TV now though).... This is in stark contrast to my only experience with Sony so far, many years ago my Sony Trinitron TV has a minor is issue of a dead line, the local service center repaired the issue free of charge half a decade after warranty expired! (I sold the TV as second hand in great working condition a few years ago)

Trezzer, was your rantings against the PS3 and glorifications of the XBox 360 really justified to begin with? The more I read about the XBox 360, the more I'm worried I may have made a mistake to suggest to my partents to buy a 360... Aren't games consoles intended for our entertainment?

Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 11:43 AM.