@MikeB

Full Auto 2 has better frame rates than Full Auto even if they still aren't good enough.

Ridge Racer 6 was already running at 60 FPS so there's absolutely no increase in speed whatsoever, so saying it's faster is a plain lie.

That said neither game are good indications of what we can eventually expect from either platform. They are rather simplistic (like GT HD) and most of what makes them look good is art direction - some of the art direction has indeed been improved for the PS3 version, even if it looks like the lighting effects have decreased in quality.

Both have of course had an extra year to receive make-overs and I don't really think it shows very well.

The only proper next-gen racer at the moment is IMO Project Gotham Racing 3, and even that was a fairly small improvement over PGR2. I'm hoping we'll feel more next-gen with Forza 2, PGR 4, DIRT, Sega Rally and the eventual next Gran Turismo release.

@MikeB
Oh and like trezzer said.. Ridge Racer 6 is 60fps on the xbox 360 as well and even locked with vsync, making it very smooth and fluid.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Ridge Racer 6 was already running at 60 FPS so there's absolutely no increase in speed whatsoever, so saying it's faster is a plain lie.

Look FPS, stands for frames per second and has nothing to do with if your car is moving at 100 MPH or 200 MPH (miles per hour, RR7 offers more the sense of speed).

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Project Gotham Racing 3

At CeBit the guy I was with was unimpressed by PGR3 for the XBox 360, but was actually impressed by seeing RR7 in 1080p! Though IMO both are a far cry in terms of impressiveness compared to Motorstorm, but that's a very different kind of racer. However which game is actually better depends on personal taste.

Last edited by MikeB on 31-Mar-2007 at 07:52 PM.

@MikeB

Having played both RR6 (which is extremely similar to RR7) and PGR3 extensively, I can say with a great amount of conviction that Ridge Racer is barely even a patch on PGR3. That doesn't mean RR6 is bad - just that PGR3 is really, really great.

Motorstorm is the first game of its kind (off road/dirt racer) that has entered the next-gen class, but for street racers it's PGR3 who sits alone on the throne. It starts to set itself apart once you enter the in-cockpit view and are actually able to look around you like in the pre-rendered Motorstorm video, look through your side windows to see competitors trying to overtake you, look at the detailed interior of the fully rendered car, note how lights break through your rear window onto the windshield in front of you, see how e.g. exterior mirrors get smashed upon contact and so on and so forth.

At first I didn't give PGR3 much credit, because it did indeed look like PGR2 - well, till I started playing it further and noticing the amount of subtle polish they put in there. It was truly astounding for a launch game - and no street racer on the market today is near it IMO.

Last edited by Trezzer on 31-Mar-2007 at 07:58 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 31-Mar-2007 at 07:57 PM.

@Trezzer

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starts to set itself apart once you enter the in-cockpit view and are actually able to look around you like in the pre-rendered Motorstorm video, look through your side windows to see competitors trying to overtake you, look at the detailed interior of the fully rendered car, note how lights break through your rear window onto the windshield in front of you, see how e.g. exterior mirrors get smashed upon contact and so on and so forth.

OK, I have only played the game from 3rd perspective view and so maybe from ####pit view the game looks more impressive, but I can't imagine the game coming close to the Motorstorm experience though. And with regard to the PS3 not having a varied selection for families (Microsoft 3.2 billion misinformation campaign seems to be working...), my girlfriend has been playing flow for hours now, she turned into a beautiful dolphin-fish like creature and now again into something else... She also loves Lemmings and Motorstorm, she doesn't like Resistance though, but that's because of the nasty looking creatures.

@MikeB

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but I can't imagine the game coming close to the Motorstorm experience though

It's comparing apples and oranges. It's about immersion. PGR3 is the first racing game that's so immersive that I stopped thinking in terms of playing a game and was suddenly just thinking about driving. That is a *huge* step for me. Of course I still became aware of that a moment later once my analytical sense kicked in, but still. I doubt I would get the same experience with Motorstorm even though I would no doubt find it fun.

As for games - how can you say with a straight face that the PS3 game selection comes even close to matching the games selection for 360 in terms of something for everyone?

Whether it's Kameo, Viva Piñata, UNO, various poker / snooker games, Worms, classic arcade games, a wide selection of first/third person shooters, racing games, Popcap's games, RPGs and so on and so forth. While there's certainly a selection on PS3 there's not exactly a *wide* range. Especially a decent selection of card games is crucial for the casual market.

So if MS spent 3.2 billion on misinformation (pointing out how the PS3 isn't the monster from the future that Sony wrongly bragged about?) it's certainly not in this department. It's hard, cold facts.

@Trezzer

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Whether it's Kameo, Viva Piñata, UNO, various poker / snooker games, Worms, classic arcade games, a wide selection of first/third person shooters, racing games, Popcap's games, RPGs and so on and so forth. While there's certainly a selection on PS3 there's not exactly a *wide* range. Especially a decent selection of card games is crucial for the casual market.

It's a new system, so there are fewer PS3 native games but the selection is pretty good for the launch of a system. Motion sensing feels great in Flow, good old Lemmings is lots of puzzle solving fun, Motorstorm is an extreme dirt racer unlike anything I played before, Formula One is a realisticly hard Formula One racer, there are three different types of fighting games, there Oblivion for the RPG fans, there's Resistance for fans of shooters with excellent online multi-player, many sports games, Marvel game for comic book fans, soon there will be Singstar, fantasy board games, Eyetoy games, Warhawk, etc.

Yes, there are fewer PS3 native games currently (duh the XBox 360 better have more games, considering the year headstart), but if you count PSX/PS2 games there are more. The PS3 games line-up is pretty impressive though and IMO indicates more varierty than you will see on the XBox 360.

Last edited by MikeB on 31-Mar-2007 at 09:18 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

The PS3 games line-up is pretty impressive though and IMO indicates more varierty than you will see on the XBox 360.

How so? It's not as varied as the 360 launch line-up after all.

It's not bad (especially if you look at the European launch), but still... where's something as simple as a decent platformer? Some card games perhaps? Something like Bejeweled or Zuma? The ever-popular soccer games?

Yeah, fl0w and Lemmings cater for one part of the casual games segment, but still... At this point of the 360's launch window there were several card games, lots of casual games, several retro remakes and so on - besides the full retail titles.

So, yeah, while the hardcore gamers certainly have a decent launch line-up, I'd have to say that the casual crowd are being let down a bit.

OK guys, so for a change some actual comparisons coming up.

Borrowed Ridge Racer 6 for Xbox 360 and actually picked up Ridge Racer 7 for PS3. Partially because I felt intrigued by the demo, partially just to get a good comparison. Hopefully I won't get bored with more RR too soon! PS3 hooked up with HDMI and Xbox 360 with component, both running native 1080p. I also tried running both in 720p (on 1080p screen).

First, I have to agree with one MikeB's comment from one of the past threads: Xbox 360 does produce a darker image (in other games too likely). This was my recollection from before, it is evident in many of the screenshot comparisons and now today it was plain when playing Ridge Racer. This is a mixed blessing: night-time city circuits are far more engaging on the Xbox 360 because they actually feel like these cities after dark, where as the more gammaized PS3 image is more like a video game with the city looking more clean than sin. Car headlights are also nicer on the Xbox 360 because of this. OTOH, daytime tracks like highland hills would seem to benefit from the brighter image with the beautiful scenery displaying more clearly. Surely one can compensate with TV settings either way, but I didn't go into lengths at calibration for this.

Second, PS3 does not seem to anti-alias Ridge Racer. In fact, at 1080p the cars at times looked more jagged than on Xbox 360 at 720p. Dropping PS3 to 720p the cars look poorer with jaggies lining the roofs like legos. The scenery also really worsens on the PS3 when going down to 720p. Xbox 360 is smoother even with internal scaler set at 720p and more smoother with hardware scaling set to 1080p. However, the PS3 version DOES benefit from the added resolution - even without anti-aliasing the graphics look goot at 1080p and the added resolution makes lines at distance less susceptible to artifcats. Framerate would seem to be better at 720p though, the 1080p does cough up here and there, but generally is very good.

Third, playing the same game on PS3 and Xbox 360 underlines, for me, again just how poor a controller the Sixaxis is compared to the Xbox 360 counterpart. The latter really is shaped to fit hands and is solid and heavy, while the PS3 controller feels more like playing with a toy. Rumble is used quite sparingly in RR6, so while a nice addition, I didn't feel it was that important in this kind of game though. It gives some tactile feedback when going outside the paved road, which I guess is its most important aspect.

So which one looks better? I will have to play more, but I do think PS3 at 1080p looks better than Xbox 360 at 720p at least for daytime races. The jaggies at this resolution are not quite as bothersome and the games does move fine. I think some levels manage to look a bit too sterile (like the night-time city shots) though, but again coming from the PSP regards to Ridge Racer, the PS3 version does feel good.

Want me to try and compare some specific tracks or things? Please let me know and I'll see if I can do it for you and report.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Having played both RR6 (which is extremely similar to RR7) and PGR3 extensively, I can say with a great amount of conviction that Ridge Racer is barely even a patch on PGR3. That doesn't mean RR6 is bad - just that PGR3 is really, really great.

I prefer RR6 over PGR3 and i have them both on my xbox 360. In my opinion this games cannot be compared at all, as ridge racer is much more of a non realistic arcade racer. I like the RR6 gameplay much more over PGR3 and it also has a much better sense of speed due to being 60fps.
I also found PGR3 to have a really sucky draw distance, especially in split mode.
The background houses seemed to be drawn far away, but it was worse with objects, fences, turns and such that would just pop up right in front of you.

PGR3 does have better graphics though.

Last edited by Tomas on 01-Apr-2007 at 12:55 AM.

@MikeB
So why then does the PS3 version have a better sense of speed? Do RR7 have faster cars or something?

@jtsiren

It's pretty interesting with the darkness/brightness thing. I guess you have one hooked up with component and one with HDMI? It could be interesting to see the picture from the same output, although I suspect that is what we have seen from both consoles in comparison shots. I wonder what PS3 would look like here, since I wouldn't really want the 360 video output neither darker nor brighter.

@Tomas

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I prefer RR6 over PGR3 and i have them both on my xbox 360.

That is, of course, a perfectly valid point. But I still feel that Ridge Racer 6/7 are essentially not next-gen games. Sure they run at 60 FPS and high resolution, but they don't scream "next-gen" in the same manner PGR3 or Motorstorm do. I didn't say they weren't fun (I've played lots and lots of RR6), but it's just the same ol' Ridge Racer. In fact they're pretty close to the PSP version. It's not a bad thing - just not very next-gen.

It's possible that PGR3 has poor drawing distance in split mode - I have only played single player and online in that particular game. I don't have anything to complain about in single player/online multiplayer mode, though.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: @jtsiren It's pretty interesting with the darkness/brightness thing. I guess you have one hooked up with component and one with HDMI? It could be interesting to see the picture from the same output, although I suspect that is what we have seen from both consoles in comparison shots. I wonder what PS3 would look like here, since I wouldn't really want the 360 video output neither darker nor brighter.

I have both the PS3 and the Xbox 360. Comparing Component Vs HDMI in terms of brightness is a waste of time. Component and HDMI, from my experience have the same brightness levels, I repeat, same brightness levels.

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@Trezzer

Quote:

It's pretty interesting with the darkness/brightness thing. I guess you have one hooked up with component and one with HDMI?

Yes, PS3 on HDMI and Xbox 360 on component. I do have a PS2 component cable somewhere here, so maybe I'll try and check out the PS3 image on component one of these days!

@jtsiren

Thanks for your comparison!

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Third, playing the same game on PS3 and Xbox 360 underlines, for me, again just how poor a controller the Sixaxis is compared to the Xbox 360 counterpart.

Are you interested in the Logitech gamepad I pointed to earlier or will you want to wait for rumble? For me and my girlfriend the Sixaxis is excellent though, especially in a game like Flow we appreciate the lightness of the controller. For me rumble most of the time was an unwelcome distraction, I would hate rumble in Flow, in Flow I simply seem to forget about the contoller while playing the game!

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So which one looks better?

So, you agree the cheapshots at the game during launch were uncalled for?

Quote:

Want me to try and compare some specific tracks or things? Please let me know and I'll see if I can do it for you and report.

That tunnel track I showed pictures of before. And don't you agree the new tracks are prettier than those RR6 tracks?

Last edited by MikeB on 01-Apr-2007 at 10:42 AM.

@Tomas

Quote:

So why then does the PS3 version have a better sense of speed? Do RR7 have faster cars or something?

The driving just seems to capture more the sense of speed, also added effects on the nitrous using screen blurs around the edges and the camera shakes around to just give you a sense that you are using some crazy high speed boosting.

@Trezzer

Quote:

How so? It's not as varied as the 360 launch line-up after all

All the types of games you mentioned we will see on the PS3 and are already there for the PS2 and some more. With regard to the gaming experience motion sensing is the new feature which may not find its way onto the XBox 360, fl0w, Warhawk and Lair are some games which are designed around motion control for the PS3.

Maybe we won't see keyboard and mouse support in XBox 360 games, which would be handy to many people for various FPS and strategy style games. You'll also see the HD Eyetoy be put to some good use in some games.

Last edited by MikeB on 01-Apr-2007 at 11:03 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 01-Apr-2007 at 10:59 AM.

@MikeB

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The driving just seems to capture more the sense of speed

Because you want it to perhaps?

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also added effects on the nitrous using screen blurs around the edges and the camera shakes around to just give you a sense that you are using some crazy high speed boosting.

...Like in Ridge Racer 6. Although I can't know for sure whether they've changed something about those.

@MikeB

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All the types of games you mentioned we will see on the PS3 and are already there for the PS2

We're not talking about the PS2 though. We're talking about the hi-def machine Sony PlayStation 3.

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With regard to the gaming experience motion sensing is the new feature which may not find its way onto the XBox 360

Good riddance. Although, actually, it probably will. It will most likely be more like the Wii controllers (and be coming to PS3 too). I doubt there will be much support for it.

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Warhawk and Lair are some games which are designed around motion control for the PS3

Warhawk had motion controls bolted on one week before the axis was introduced. I very much assume the same goes for Lair. But hey, as long as it works...

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Maybe we won't see keyboard and mouse support in XBox 360 games

Again: Good riddance. I really hope we won't, even I know it's a nearly religious thing for some people. I'm just very unlikely to get any game that's paced for mouse and keyboard for a console, since I simply hate that control method. If I wanted that kind of gaming, I'd be playing on a PC (and most likely in higher resolution to boot).

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You'll also see the HD Eyetoy be put to some good use in some games.

OMG really? You really pulled out the big crystal ball on that one. Yeah, Rainbow Six Vegas already supports face mapping on Xbox 360, Totemball is entirely controlled by Xbox Live Vision and Burnout will support Live Vision as well as Eyetoy - and of course you can see who you're playing with in the ever popular UNO (which has sold a million by now). I'm still curious as to what will be "HD" about EyeToy. If they actually put out a 720p webcam at an affordable price I will officially be impressed. If by HD they mean 640*480 or 800*600 I may well throw up in disgust on the other hand

Last edited by Trezzer on 01-Apr-2007 at 12:10 PM.