@MikeB

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Sony ... show much confidence in their product.

Duh! What company out there does not have confidence in their product?

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7% of launch units being bad I centainly consider to be a bad figure

That's might be slightly higher then average but not out of the running. Later consoles supposedly had less issues so an overall 5% is not unrealistic and is not out of the norm for electronic devices.

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actually those who've experienced problems seem to outnumber those who didn't

Your preception is wrong. For this to be the case more then 50% of consoles would have to be bad. The figure is no where near that.

Last edited by BrianK on 04-Apr-2007 at 02:09 PM.

@Trezzer

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...for one dealer. It doesn't make the 5% sound unlikely and 5% is not out of spec for electronics.

You may try to downplay these now welknown and seemingly pretty common issues anyway you want, but the evidence is really to the contrary:

According to 360-Gamer's Xbox 360 Hardware Failure Survey amongst 2808 members.

The Results

1160 (41.31%) say they have NOT had a console fail
1048 (37.32%) say they've had one console fail
600 (21.37%) say they've had more than one console fail

Overall 1648 (58.69%) of submissions claim to have experienced Xbox 360 hardware failure

1195 (42.56%) submissions purchased their first Xbox 360 before January '06
Of these 1195 submissions:
790 (66.11%) claim their Xbox 360 broke
405 (33.89%) say their Xbox 360 is still going strong

Come on those are extremely bad figures. With less than 1 and a half years on the market! These are serious signs, please don't try to shove this under the carpet!

Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 02:20 PM.

@MikeB
But why do you seem to ignore the issues with the psx and early ps2 models?
I think the failure rates there must have been at least as bad.

PS3 has been out for such a short period of time, that we will yet to know whether or not they are reliable.

Last edited by Tomas on 04-Apr-2007 at 02:21 PM.

@MikeB

Yeah, because of course no-one could feel tempted to manipulate the results of an online survey...

I trust the other numbers more - especially since the 5 and 7% aren't particularly out of sync.

@MikeB

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I don't know if the PS2 version of RE4 is crap though, but it may be that the game was designed around the GameCube's strenghts or something

It was. The PS2 port wasn't horrible (the PC version was), but the GameCube one is clearly superior.

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but surely games like Motorstorm or Resistance even at 480p are way out of its league.

I think RE4 would still look better than Resistance at 480p - simply because RE4 is visually stunning in every way. There will be more things going on in Resistance and Motorstorm, but I doubt you'd go away thinking that RE4 is the poor cousin if you saw them side by side.

Obviously RE4 won't scale to 720p though - and on a HDTV set the other two are more likely to look impressive.

@MikeB

Quote:

You may try to downplay these now welknown and seemingly pretty common issues anyway you want, but the evidence is really to the contrary:

Sorry the issue isn't common. Nice poll. I'm sure their poll are completely scientific and can never be manipulated.

I bet if they added pancakes to the poll 20% of the poll would have gone there making the 360 good numbers even worse.

@Tomas

Quote:

But why do you seem to ignore the issues with the psx and early ps2 models? I think the failure rates there must have been at least as bad.

1) I do not have extensive knowledge regarding the PSX and PS2.
2) It seems unlikely to me, that in 1 and a half year so many people would have had problems without switching consoles (Beyond 120 million units shipped and still going strong)
3) 7 years on the market is a lot more time than 1 and a half year on the market. The early signs of problems with regard to the XBox 360 seems overwhelming.

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PS3 has been out for such a short period of time, that we will yet to know whether or not they are reliable

In my experience Sony products are very reliable. If there would have been significant issues with regard to the PS3, I am sure the XBox 360 fans (those stating they would never own a PS3, not the many people posting at that forum who actually state they own both) would have cried outrage Moobunny style en masse.

Come on, how often have we seen XBox 360 fans cry about DVD upscaling and background downloading which were added to the XBox 360 later on through a firmware update and have been added to the PS3 or will be added through a firmware update as well?

@MikeB
In my and many others personal experience it has been horrible. You should do a google search on the first models of the ps2 and the psx which had problems even with latter models.
The early models of the ps2 has a problem with the laster just wearing out after a short period of time, which is luckily gotten much better with later models though there is a still cases where lasers wear out.
The main problem with the psx is that the laser track would wear out quickly, which made the laser get unaligned and it then would have severe problems reading discs or not read them at all. Sometimes you could get it to read a disc by using the psx upside down or similar.

Firstly, I'm not that interested in PS3, as it doesn't really offer anything new (compered to, for example, Wii)

The newest console I have is PSP. (Also got PS2, N64 and CD32, all used quite often). That doesn't offer anything "really new" either, but it's portable. And runs various emulators and stuff. But to the point I'm going to make:

There have been numerous rumours about Sony working on "PSP2" (being updated version of PSP obviously) On many forums I've seen dozens of comments like "If Sony does this, I will never buy any Sony product ever again! They're liars! They suck! They can't do this to us! They " - you get the point...

Basically I'm under the impression that such upgrade would be compatible with PSP1, so old users wouldn't really lose anything if they had waited for the newer model (well, except homebrew likely, which obviously is a very big thing, but why do they complain then?)

On the other hand, consider NDS. It got an upgraded model. But did you see that kind of behavior on online forums? Think not.

So in some way I feel like Sony is getting some sort of "special treatment". Sure they have had their share of bad publicity, like PS3 delays, rootkit scandal etc. but still it makes me wonder...

And about that rootkit, I don't believe they did that on purpose, they just happened to be the unlucky company to hire the worst hackers

@MikeB

Quote:

1) I do not have extensive knowledge regarding the PSX and PS2.

That's fine. You seem to be more then willing to find out info about the 360 and how bad it is, and feel comfortable enough to conclude that failures are common and freely comment. Yet it appears you are unwilling to listen to others, such as myself, about the issues we've experienced with the PS2 nor are you willing to do the same sort of research on the PS2 you are on the 360.

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It seems unlikely to me, that in 1 and a half year so many people would have had problems without switching consoles (Beyond 120 million units shipped and still going strong)

Read this again --- I am on my 3rd PS2 the others broke. I don't go claiming this is a common experience. If it was common only 40M PS2 users would exist.

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problems with regard to the XBox 360 seems overwhelming.

Nope it's simple your preception which is out of step with reality.

@Tomas

The old models used to wear the laser out. The latest models *burn* it out.

_________________

@BrianK

The survey seems to have been pretty reliable as people needed to submit their gamertags and it's a fully XBox 360 centric website...

Some more quotes from a TeamXBox forum thread (posted 29-02-2007):

Royal K: "If enough break, there will be an outcry. If 5% was truly the failure rate of 360, I wouldn't be on my 4th 360"

Alucard Tc: "'I'm on my 3rd console"

mulatto3584: "you guys can make whatever excuses you want but I know I had one fail on me already."

"Theirs no need to reason out of all of the consoles ive EVER owned dating back to the NES nothing has died on me.

In all honesty the 360 is the most unreliable peice of hardware ive ever owned."

His PS2, N64, dreamcast comment: "I have and those systems still work to this day... it just seems like the 360 is just OVERLY sensitive."

totalfailure: "Well, I'm only on my second one. But I have plenty of evidence that the problem is real - there are 14 people on my buddy list right now, 1 does not have a 360, 2 were recently added and the subject hasn't come up. Out of the 11 left, only 1 is still on his original 360."

apollooff320: "I had my console repaired the first time and it only lasted 2 days with only 3hrs of play, so far the second repair has been working great."

DwnOfBlitzkrieg: "I have had 4 XBOX 360's and have not had any other major electronic product die on me..."

DvD [DA]: "Oh, and I think the biggest reason I'm on my 5th is because they keep sending me refurbs. My 5th console was manufactured 04/06! It's probably been returned 2-3 times already. It has scuff marks and crap."

Aeroflux: "I'm waiting for my fourth console...just do a search on my username to see how much crap MS has put me through. I don't care what percentage you choose to believe. Three failed consoles for one person is not acceptable."

bembol: "After 2 failed unit back when it launched (returned) and minor issues a year later (exchanged), I was BASICALLY FORCED to buy an Extended Warranty.

I was ready to buy one for my 60GB Sony PS3 but surprisingly it's been flawless so far (picked it up 12/06) *knock-on-wood* This is the only Component in my HomeTheater that I had to spend money on Warranty."

Kdawg28: "I'm on my third repair."

Nitsuj: "My friend is on his 3nd 360, but his first Power Supply was DOA so it is basically his 4th console. He on the other hand didn't buy the warranty."

Thug541: "Honestly....i feel the pain for some of you guys on your 3rd and 4ths. I am personally on my 2nd. "

OblivionScamp: "I love the games on 360, but i am on my 4th system probably about to be 5th, the hardware is very very very fragile and needs to be dealt with before they talk about releasing a new system with more features."

If this list still doesn't impress you maybe the following article will....
Unlucky "Fanboy" Returns 7th Xbox 360

@MikeB

The PSX used to break down all the time. I know people who have had 3 of them. The PS2 is exactly the same. Yet you ignore all that and claim that Sony products are reliable while the 360 is not.

_________________

@AMiGR
Are you saying that the new model is just as unreliable as the first or even worse?

@MikeB

Single user comments are something to note but anyone is unable to ascertain the % of impact in the total console ownership from them. They appeal to the emotional intent but not a statistical one.

No one is arguing that 360 owners have not experienced problems. What I am arguing is that your feeling that problems are common is wrong. Problems aren't common you're seeing a vocal minority, something the web has well enabled.

@AMiGR

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The PSX used to break down all the time. I know people who have had 3 of them.

The PSX has been around for well over a decade, sure that's bad but the XBox 360 signs are much worse, I know someone who still has a PSX from the mid-nineties running fine, although the console isn't used much anymore.

Quote:

Yet you ignore all that and claim that Sony products are reliable while the 360 is not.

In my experience they are, I have only ever owned a PSX for a couple of years, but it didn't show any problems but sold the console second hand as apart from a few games I didn't like them so much, one big mistake was buying two dual shock controllers... I greatly disliked Rumble in games like Ape Escape, my favourite at the time.

@MikeB
Why not do the same search for the ps2 and psx? I know that the xbox 360 had some serious reliability issues, but i dont think it is any worse than the issue with psx and ps2.

And those who complain the loudest, is of course the minor really unlucky ones. I doubt all the happy owners will search up such a thread just to say that their xbox 360 has had no issues.

@MikeB
Quote:

The PSX has been around for well over a decade, sure that's bad but the XBox 360 signs are much worse, I know someone who still has a PSX from the mid-nineties running fine, although the console isn't used much anymore.

My psx went bad after less than a year, so i was lucky enough to get a replacement.. The replacement quickly went bad even more quickly. The third one i still have and it still works somewhat, but has problems reading some discs and especially have problems when it comes to cut scenes and have a tendency freeze up and skip.

I also know of alot of people who had their psx go bad just as quickly as mine and this problem is a very known issue with the psx which you will discover if you read around some.

There were even a bunch guides on the internet on how to fix this design problem with laser tracks going bad.

I am sure there will be plenty of xbox 360 in a decade as well.

Last edited by Tomas on 04-Apr-2007 at 03:37 PM.
Last edited by Tomas on 04-Apr-2007 at 03:37 PM.

@Tomas

PSX? My PSX is the original and still works, mostly. There are a few games the PSX can't read but the PS2 works to read them.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Tomas PSX? My PSX is the original and still works, mostly. There are a few games the PSX can't read but the PS2 works to read them.

There are always exceptions, just like there is with the first models of xbox 360, ps2 and so on..