@Tomas

Quote:

I still like ridge racer better due to the feel of speed thanks to 60fps even if the game is less visually stunning and less realistic. 30 fps for a racing game is just way too low in my opinion.

As long as the frame rate is steady I don't mind 30 FPS. 60 FPS is even better of course - especially for faster paced (e.g. unrealistic) racers. I enjoy both games, but there's more depth to PGR3 IMO due to the number of car classes, greater emphasis on physics + clean driving and such. Visually I find them to be in different leagues with PGR having much higher complexity and far better effects.

That doesn't mean I don't appreciate Ridge Racer's visuals. It has its own characteristic aesthetics which makes it different from other games. It tends to be on the simplistic side, though, as it has been the case with previous games in the series. I suppose that's also part of the reason why I can still appreciate Rage Racer today on more or less the same level as recent releases. It was always simple and fast - which is good for a pure arcade racer (like OutRun and BurnOut). I enjoy it equally on Playstation, PSP and 360 .

@Trezzer, MikeB and AMiGR

What's this, another thread blown to smithereens by you? You either stop the personal insults, or I restrict you all for a very long time. This has nothing to do with PS3, XBox 360 or anything, just being polite and show each other respect will do.

Consider this the final warning on the subject, you all know you've been asked to behave before.

And no, saying the other one started it won't do as an excuse...


Edit:
Also for MikeB only, you've been reported for misquoting before. This final warning is in regard of that too. One more time and you're restricted.


Kind regards,
Joachim Birging

Last edited by zerohero on 05-Apr-2007 at 10:46 PM.

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

Quote:

Also for MikeB only, you've been reported for misquoting before. This final warning is in regard of that too. One more time and you're restricted.

LOL, I have probably been misquoted more here at AmigaWorld.net than anyone else. I cannot even imagine how often I responded with "But that's not what I said", bias ahoy!.

Never did anyone got threatened though and in fact I myself didn't even misquote Trezzer in this case. Sad, very sad people.

Maybe you should update the website's terms of usage... You can claim with anything I will respond to in the future, that I misquoted someone.

Last edited by MikeB on 05-Apr-2007 at 10:59 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 05-Apr-2007 at 10:58 PM.

@All

Time to lock this for now.

@Mods,

Please discuss this in staff forums.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@Seer

Why lock it? i have not seen much personal attacks here..

@Tomas

Not much, but enough...

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @zerohero Quote: Also for MikeB only, you've been reported for misquoting before. This final warning is in regard of that too. One more time and you're restricted. LOL, I have probably been misquoted more here at AmigaWorld.net than anyone else. I cannot even imagine how often I responded with "But that's not what I said", bias ahoy!. Never did anyone got threatened though and in fact I myself didn't even misquote Trezzer in this case. Sad, very sad people. Maybe you should update the website's terms of usage... You can claim with anything I will respond to in the future, that I misquoted someone.

DUDE! Moderators = God.. Don't #### off the Gods it's a simple unwritten rule. Sometimes you may feel Gods are unfair but none-the-less they are Gods and should be heeded.

@MikeB

Quote:

To put into context why I believe jtsiren is so willingly trying to back up Trezzer and AMiGR on this matter, he was involved in that discussion, but our differences of opinion go way back regarding the AmigaOS4 project actually (also AmigaOS4 vs MorphOS related, although I am not very interested in MorphOS discussions). With regard to the PS3, he stated (IMO chldishly) that he had become less interested in the PS3 due to my comments, yet failing to refer to which comments he was pointing to exactly. I stated that the clarifications and additional info I provided in response to Trezzer's comments and other people probably wasn't the true reason to make this statement, just a cheapshot.

It is fine to put into context my actions, if you really feel that necessary. But none of that negates the fact that you did poor quoting and referencing in that message. No matter how much you'd like to distort that. You could have just owned up and said sorry, here is the link, poor quotion on my part and we could have left it at that.

We did have differences of opinion (still do) about AmigaOS 4.0 and AmigaOne projects, especially the latter. Something I thought of bringing up many times when discussing these hardware failures and warranty replacements, but I thought that would be off-topic. I still think it is and would like to leave those things out of this discussion. I don't think our past regarding AmigaOS/AmigaOne is relevant to this particular thread, its effects are likely quite small compared to how much of what we do and say is shaped by things actually said within these PS3 threads.

Now that you bring it up again, my perception of PS3 actually did take a hit by your style of defending and promoting it. Probably unfairly against PS3 and I readily admitted this back then, but thank you for calling it childish. You see, sometimes things are defined by the people who root for them. In this case I was coming from much excitement over PS3, to disappointment over lack-luster reports against Xbox 360, to this place where you are praising the heck out of the box in your usual, a little notorious style... It did take a while to rekindle that interest, but I did and was back here discussing my choices about getting a PS3 weeks before launch, even while you were out banned.

I'm not against PS3, never was. I almost became against PS3 because of you, even if for only a while. There have been others that say your style of supporting a product can put off people because they don't want to be associated with that. I certainly don't want to be associated with the way you promote PS3 even if I now own one. I still think you should change your style.

Quote:

To understand how all the fuss started maybe you want to start reading here.

Thank you for the link. That would have been a good addition to the original message, now we can read the posting of Trezzer in its entirety. I tried to search for it yesterday but didn't find.

I don't think Trezzer should have opened with a sentence like that. The message does clarify his position (which makes context important), but I wouldn't have started with a sentence like that. I try to shy away from extremes for a reason. A game will not look weak simply because it can not run "full effects" like 720p. But it can look weak, of course. So there you go.

I think the debate comes down to how much complexity 1080p can actually manage and reading rest of Trezzer's posting articulates his position quite well. Important addition to the quote: "Both machines are perfectly capable of running games in 1080p - at 60 fps too." I wouldn't be as adamant about the whole thing as Trezzer personally, though, but at least he has explained why he feels at 1080p the machines will not handle enough complexity and you OTOH feel differently.

I can respect both opinions, because we still don't know - and that is why I am somewhere in the middle of opinions. I'm waiting anxiously to see if 1080p will be possible for all kinds of games without significant loss of content detail. I'm sure we can tell who was right in a year or two's time.

@Mods.

May I suggest, that some specific reason be given for locking the thread, or threatening to do so. No doubt you have your reasons, but I cannot see any myself.

Some of the things mentioned about this thread I find hard to fathom. It is difficult at the best of times for moderators to be clear whether they are just replying, or in fact warning. This is a little confusing.

I cannot see the gross misquoting MikeB is accused, we all misquote to a degree by what we select to quote - is he being accused of maliciously editing some quotes? That would be serious.

I just don't see the uncivil posts, testy perhaps, from time to time, but hardly anything worse than that.

Last edited by GregS on 06-Apr-2007 at 06:35 AM.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@MikeB

Quote:

I quoted exactly the paragrpah I wasn't agreeing with, IMO that's a very normal approach.

No you did not. You quoted PART of the sentence.

You quoted:

Quote:

all new PS3 games will look weak

(adding [1080p])

The whole paragraph:

Quote:

Then all new PS3 games will look weak. Neither 360 nor PS3 have the horse power necessary for 1080p with full effects. It really is that simple. Don't drink the Sony kool-aid.

And even more context:

Quote:

Then all new PS3 games will look weak. Neither 360 nor PS3 have the horse power necessary for 1080p with full effects. It really is that simple. Don't drink the Sony kool-aid. Both machines are perfectly capable of running games in 1080p - at 60 fps too. The problem is that at this resolution the GPU doesn't have time per pixel to add all the nice shader effects that it is capable of. That is why you will not see a complex game running at 1080p with the same level of detail as the same game running at 720p.

That paints a far more accurate picture of Trezzer's opinion than you quoting only most of the first sentence. He may end up being wrong for all we know, even he seems to acknowledge the possibility, but I think it is fair to at least quote him accurately.

@MikeB

Quote:

If some other company releases another gaming console on the market next year, would that make this console 8th gen or 7th gen? And what if the console is specced below the PS2's specs at for instance an even cheaper price point, would that make the console 6th or even 5th gen?

This is pure crazyness Mike. You are splitting some really thin hairs here. Obviously console generations are pretty much established in both expert and general consumer lingo. Wii maybe a question mark in some ways, but there is absolutely no way PS2 isn't a member of the previous consoler generation and PS3 is a member of the next. Trying to twist this otherwise is crazy.

This obviously won't negate that fact that Sony has a history of succesfully selling previous generation console while selling the new console as well. That is fine and good. But any success of PS2 is not a measure of success of PS3 because these are not just different revisions of a television, these are different software-running hardware platforms (even if some compatibility is there).

OK, so to get back to discussing actual gaming experiences. I downloaded Virtua Tennis 3 demo and also tried if 1080i made a difference on Ridge Racer 6. On Xbox 360 both.

As for 1080i, I didn't see a difference in RR6 so I guess this isn't one of those games that might offer sharper resolution on 1080i.

I did download Virtua Tennis 3 demo for Xbox 360 and I liked the 1080p visuals. It is certainly as sharp as 1080p on PS3 (only this time it is anti-aliased but I guess so on PS3 as well). Again, the gamma level feels darker than PS3 so I guess this really is a difference between these consoles. Virtua Tennis 3 runs great at 1080p, but we all knew it would because it is a simple setup graphically... but I do like 1080p now that I have gotten to play more at it.

Personally I hope developers can squeeze enough of these boxes at 1080p. Although I hope that won't lead back a step in the level of what kind of "effects" or just content detail we get...

Last edited by jtsiren on 06-Apr-2007 at 06:52 AM.

@GregS

Quote:

I cannot see the gross misquoting MikeB is accused, we all misquote to a degree by what we select to quote - is he being accused of maliciously editing some quotes? That would be serious.

I guess message 281 is the most hotly debated one. I think he left out a lot of Trezzer's intent with that quote. He did provide a link later when confronted, so kudos for that though.

@jtsiren

Quoting is always a hazardous thing, I know only too well that some part of message stands out so much, that everything else looks secondary, as things turn out this is usually the part thought secondary by the author and what was dismissed was the important bit.

These things will crop up from time to time, and I have no worries. It is only when things degenerate to the point when an author is held to some fraction of what was actually posted and no matter what is said to reinterpret, qualify, or reread the original, the quote keeps being used to "prove" a point the author does not hold.

I don't think I have seen this yet, or anything like it (that is badgering by misquote).

Thanks for the reference I will go back and look it up.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

Going back to RR6 vs. RR7 comparisons. I now tried that Crossbay Tunnel, which I guess was the tunnel track discussed earlier on. They have certainly added a lot to the tunnels: pulsating light arches to the first yellow tunnel, fast-moving wall lights in the red tunnel and reflective (wet?) floor in later tunnels to name some.

Again, the crisp (non-antialiased) and brighter image leave the RR7 on PS3 track a bit more sterile than on Xbox 360, but the additions do look better, 1080p again IMHO looks better than anti-aliased 720p and it is a matter of taste if one prefers the brighter look or not. I also played the level at 720p, to compare resolution vs. resolution, and the PS3 did look harsher and more pixellated as before.

Clearly reports of improvements in tunnels in RR7 Crossbay Tunnel were correct.

About the brightness difference: Xbox 360 seems to have warmer color temperature than PS3 that also contributes to the different image.

Last edited by jtsiren on 06-Apr-2007 at 08:11 AM.

@GregS

Quote:

Quoting is always a hazardous thing, I know only too well that some part of message stands out so much, that everything else looks secondary, as things turn out this is usually the part thought secondary by the author and what was dismissed was the important bit.

Yes, true, but in this case MikeB, as jtsiren says in post 350 in this thread, quoted really badly.

He decided to quote some of Trezzer's post here in the middle part of this post. Completely out of context, and even edited Trezzer's original text to not mention the XBox 360 at all.

He then quoted Trezzer here, this time "only" completely out of context, no editing.

Finally he goes to to twist Trezzer's word completely in this post, editing the meaning of what Trezzer originally said to a totally different thing.

That is why I gave MikeB a warning, there have been a number of AR's against him for misquoting, this is just one example. I also decided to give MikeB, Trezzer and AMiGR a warning because every thread ends up in a personal ####ing contest. At least some of you want to discuss the PS3, lets just keep it there.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

Last edited by zerohero on 06-Apr-2007 at 09:19 AM.

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

What I did not agree with is that all 1080p PS3 games will be weak visually, I don't care about what the console is technically capable of in displaying. The PS2 can output 1280X1024, but there are no games running at this resolution? If someome claims that all 480p PS2 games will be weak and 480i is the PS2's sweetspot, why can't I just say I don't agree with that? Why would I quote irrelavant parts of messages?

@zerohero

[edit: Sorry I this was requested through modearator Tomazkid instead...)

He! A while ago on my request you promised me to scan (together with others) the PS3 threads (as you banned me initially for week, more so than anyone ever received for his first abuse report, although IMO it was fake as my message was within a PS3 thread regarding the PS3 and the staff stated they wanted to keep the amount of PS3 threads to a minimum, so my message wasn't off topic like you claimed) and provide me examples on what you had trouble with in my messages. After a week or so I received nothing, you again promising me to send the quotes/messages in question to me, time passed, times passed, nothing. And now I have to get those messages from you in public, idiotic why did you not PM me like you promised?

I will read them now and respond later on in public.....But I promised to clarify in private, very sad you didn't give me that chance. Well, let's see what all the turmoil you are generating is about....

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 10:03 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 09:53 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 09:47 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

He, a while ago you promised me to scan the threads and provide me examples what you had trouble with.

I'm sorry, I have no recollection of this. OTOH I've been very busy with life in general, so might very well have forgotten. I'll check your PM's.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

Sorry you are right, I requested this through Tomazkid as our communication wasn't going too well, our discussin got diverted towards discussin Amiga Inc and Eyetech and wasn't going anywhere. Sorry about the confusion.

OK, it now appears you have only posted with regard to my quoting in this thread, my bad...

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2007 at 10:05 AM.