I finally got the chance to see a ps3 running with my own eyes today. It was running Motorstorm and the graphics looked quite ok. But there was absolutely no sense of speed and the whole game seemed to be running in slow motion to my eyes.

@Trezzer

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I don't really think there's any excuse for that. Microsoft and Nintendo's machines are slightly more expensive than their US prices here, but nowhere near what the PS3 costs extra.

I agree about the part about Microsoft, but the Wii is insanely overpriced here. The wii actually costs between 2500-2900NOK while you can get a xbox 360 premium for as little as 2800nok and that includes both a HD and extra cables like component, while the wii only had composite. 2500NOK is $410 according to todays currency rates.

@BrianK

Sony has officially confirmed via a press release that more than $20,000,000 worth of PS3 hardware has been pre-ordered in Australia, and a quick calculation appears to indicate that equates to around 20,000 consoles.

Please don't expect the Australians and Europeans to behave similar to some of the crowds we have seen in the USA. IMO the less of that the better, earlier in reply to the horror stories I said the launch would be much more sober here in Europe (luckily I was right!).

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Come on you seriously complain when someone sayd the PS3 looks half baked? 5+ years planning and they can't frickin' scale a DVD? Seems like a checkbox that SHOULD have been on day #1 not months after launch.

Planning isn't the same as implementing today's state of the art technology. And I think DVD upscaling was added the XBox 360 through a firmware update as well (correct me if I am wrong).

The PS3 is a very complex device and the user experience will grow in course of time, like for instance the Home experience which has been under development for many years now. You act as if AROS with its first release should have offered every possible feature AmigaOS3.1 provides (still not the case, although it has been planned for many years now). Even the initial "final" PS3 development kits weren't ready till a few months before the actual launch of the platform, I think that has priority for a device with gaming being its primary feature!

@MikeB

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Planning isn't the same as implementing today's state of the art technology. And I think DVD upscaling was added the XBox 360 through a firmware update as well (correct me if I am wrong).

I think it only does upscaling with vga as well. Component will only be 480p/i no matter what.

@Tomas

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graphics looked quite ok

IMO superb on any good telly, screenshots don't do this game enough justice, you'll have to see the game running to fully appreciate the graphics.

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But there was absolutely no sense of speed and the whole game seemed to be running in slow motion to my eyes.

LOL, press the turbo boost button (don't blow up your engine)!

Some vehicles are faster than others, try a motorcycle I will be impressed you will be able to handle the game's speed without crashing a couple of times.

@jtsiren

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jtsiren wrote: @hatschi Quote: Why is the PC more prone to getting outdated? You can't even upgrade the PS3 with a faster CPU or Gfx card. Speaking about the PS3 as the "cheapest option" is funny when this is in fact what is hindering sales according to news reports of the European launch. To be fair, PS3 is far more powerful (due to being sold at a lost) than many budget PCs likely will be for years. This gives it an edge. If it would run Windows or even MacOS, it might rock in this computing segment. Now it is up to Linux to do the trick and I'm not as optimistic about that, but we'll see!

Depends on the budget PC’s components. If the target price is 499 USD, CTM capable ~160 USD Radeon X1900 would be required. Remember, CELL has a compromised PPE CPU core i.e. roughly equivalent to ~1.6Ghz PowerPC 970.

In the gaming context and most of the PC games in the 2006, the level of GPU dictates the playable frame rates. The need for screamer Intel Core 2 Extreme or AMD Athlon 64 FX-60 is for scoring high numbers in 3DMark/PCMark/ FPS benchmarks.

Compared AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+(~89 USD) and Radeon X1900 (~160 USD ) combo, Intel Core 2 Extreme and Intel GMA 950 doesn't result playable rates for 2006 PC games.

Last edited by Hammer on 23-Mar-2007 at 11:27 PM.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@MikeB
I wasnt able to try it myself, as there was a bunch of kids standing in front of it

@MikeB

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The US is a more homogenous market, it's cheaper for them to support and distribute, also taxes are pretty high and included in the retail price in European countries.

That might account to a part of it, but considering that Wii and Xbox 360 can at least match euro per dollar levels in pricing (even though euro is much stronger), the PS3 should too if it was only about those. And they are even releasing a cost-reduced version here, which shoud allow them to sell it even cheaper...

I believe most of the pricing difference comes from the fact that PS3 in the U.S. was and is sold in the U.S. at a far bigger loss than in Europe due to competetive reasons. Sony probably felt they couldn't try and charge a higher price in the U.S. Same for not introducing the 20 GB here in Europe, that doesn't have anything to do with taxes or the sort.

Last edited by jtsiren on 23-Mar-2007 at 10:16 PM.

@jtsiren

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That might account to a part of it, but considering that Wii and Xbox 360 can at least match euro per dollar

It's said Nintendo make a profit on every Wii sold, the PS3 is sold below actual costs so I think it's not strange if Sony calculates retail prices for a maximum amount of loss per unit.

Try to look at this from a perspective if you were producing these devices yourself. If not looked at from Sony consumer electronics perspective as a whole and closing an eye on future returns the business model would not make any sense, but from a wider perspective this strategy can be justified.

@MikeB

No matter how you twist and turn it: It seems like the European ones aren't sold at a loss. It's assumed that the PS3 was sold at a loss of $200. The PS3 is more than $200 more expensive here after VAT.

It's hard to assume anything but that Europeans get to fund the losses in the US/Japan. Why? Because Sony is a stronger brand here when it comes to gaming. That's the only way they can get away with it - if they do succeed.

@MikeB

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Try to look at this from a perspective if you were producing these devices yourself. If not looked at from Sony consumer electronics perspective as a whole and closing an eye on future returns the business model would not make any sense, but from a wider perspective this strategy can be justified.

Which one is it Mike? Is PS3 "cheaper for them to support and distribute, also taxes are pretty high and included in the retail price in European countries" or is this "strategy"?

I say and agree it is the latter. Their strategy is, they feel they can charge more from European customers than from U.S. customers.

If they get away with it, certainly it works for them. How should the European consumer feel about it is another story, though.

I think it feels a bit bad considering the price difference is so vast and Europeans even got a lesser machine to boot. Not that it stopped me from buying one, but the sentiment is there.

@MikeB
I think it is unfair that we europeans should cover the losses of the units sold in USA and Japan.
Not only did they raise the price, but they also stripped it down by removing some chips that is important for the backwards compitability.

The xbox 360 is supposed to sell at loss as well according to Microsoft. It still is nearly equally priced in usa and europe.

Last edited by Tomas on 24-Mar-2007 at 12:36 AM.

@jtsiren

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de-la-ps3-en-france-chroniques-d-un-fiasco

Good news from France, a country for its size not much of a Playstation country in comparison with others, but it was revealed 60.000 PS3 were pre-ordered significantly outperforming the XBox 360 (zdnet.fr).

@jtsiren

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Reading online... Apparently background downloading does not work while playing a game (some games?).

It does work, It downloaded part of GTHD while I was playing Motorstorm. If it does it on one game it should work on all of them.

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Whyzzat?

I've got Motorstorm, RFoM and downloaded GT HD. I also got another game we were all playing at the end of the night - Lemmings!


I also downloaded the trailer for Casino Royale (SP?). It's only a SDTV but I downloaded the HD trailer - the playback quality is *awsome*.

Last edited by minator on 24-Mar-2007 at 01:11 AM.

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Whyzzat?

Microsoft:

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Backtracking slightly, what's your response to Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aimes' recent comments claiming that the Xbox 360 is only selling well in the UK and not the rest of Europe? McGill: Well I think Microsoft already responded to that saying he's obviously not sure what he's talking about. We've got a 10.4 million install base around the world and while we don't release country by country specific statistics it's clear that the UK phenomenon of Xbox 360 has also been a success around all of the European territories.

Retailers are not the end users, currently they are still below 10 million.

Micrsoft:

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We've got a great portfolio of games for kids, families, mums and girls. If you look at the PS3 line-up it's quite heavy in shooters and drivers so I'm pleased to say that our portfolio is quite appealing to the masses.

Hhm, sound as if Microsoft regards the Nintendo Wii their product.

Ok, now I'm gonna shoot some Lemmings and drive some Virtua Tennis.

@minator

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I also downloaded the trailer for Casino Royale (SP?). It's only a SDTV but I downloaded the HD trailer - the playback quality is *awsome*.

Yeah it's quite amazing how much better HD films look on SD tvs, eh? Games don't come off as well, though, for some reason.

@MikeB

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Retailers are not the end users, currently they are still below 10 million.

When they state install base I assume they're not talking shipped to retail but actual sold units.
Remember that there's some inaccuracy in NPD numbers amongst others. Even the Japanese unit sales are based on representative samples and may not be precise.

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Hhm, sound as if Microsoft regards the Nintendo Wii their product.

Actually I have played all kinds of people in UNO® on Xbox Live. I've seen everything from little kids to entire families around their tvs. I was quite surprised at the diversity to be honest. There are other card games too, and those are often popular with the female demographic.

Unwrapping and installing the PS3 went without a hitch. It is now sitting nicely on top of my Xbox 360. The appearance is cheaper than I hoped, the glossy black plastic as well as the faux-silver plastic looks nice from afar, but up close it looks quite a bit too cheap for my taste. It also seems very prone to finger prints, dust etc. The Xbox 360 doesn't look cheap in the same way - its matte plastic is more conventional but also doesn't look like faux either - and is more practical (no dirty glossy cover and shaped for stacking), but granted Xbox 360 looks duller and from afar the PS3 looks better. When stacked on top of each other, it is clear that PS3 is the bigger one of the two but does include the power supple of course. The slot-loading drive and touch-sensitive eject/power buttons are on the other hand nice touches that look more valuable on PS3 than their Xbox 360 counterparts. I wish rest of the plastic would be more like the pink PS2 which is glossy, but also feels more valuable. Overall, PS3 the machine manages to look better compared to Xbox 360, but accessories are aesthetically more to my liking on the Xbox 360 (comments on Sixaxis later).

I think the PS3 did manage to create a requisite amount of excitement during unwrapping, which is always a good sign. I plugged in network, power, HDMI and Sixaxis USB and off I went. The box also had a network cable and a composite PS2/PS3 cable which I didn't use. Everything burst into life without a hitch and the installation process was easy. Firmware update from the menu and registration to PlayStation online were also quite simple, although the "space bug" in typing was annoying. I also wondered why selecting the default avatar wasn't possible... but other than that everything went along smoothly and without need for instructions. The PSP inspired menu in PS3 looks nice, but is a bit trickier to navigate compared to Xbox 360. I would have to call the menu system a tie: Xbox 360 seems more usable and more friendly to approach, but PS3 probably gets the points for sheer slickness of appearance.

So far so good, the machine works well without much tuning. It is not super-quiet (very audible fan noise compared to general consumer electronics and it gets louder as it runs for a while), but compared to Xbox 360 of course it is more quiet. Some reported the fan noise annoying while watching movies, I haven't tried, but when in menu and gaming the machine does make significant noise - just to note for those who are sensitive. Another note: PS3 sure likes to blink. My room is blinking from all the lights - network LED on the back of the machine keeps illuminating the wall, HD led strikes my left eye and the loading Sixaxis is also blinking a LED... Not necessarily a good thing, but easily rectified with a few bits of tape if it gets out of control.

The PS3 games boxes are nice. Small as HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs and the embossed Playstation 3 logo in the plastic. I also like the Playstation 3 logo in general.

Now the bad news... the Sixaxis feels like crap compared to both PS2 controllers and the Xbox 360 controller. I actually had to go pick up a PS2 controller to confirm the difference of feel, and it is significant. Sixaxis is super-light, but not in a good way. It feels flimsy and cheap - and even more so when the USB cable is removed. The worthy additions, analogue L2 and R2 are also a bit lacking in response, but I think those I'll get used to. Without rumble games feel sterile and suddenly you are that bit more removed from the action on screen. The rest is pretty much like PS2 - so quite OK, but compared to the absolutely superb Xbox 360 controller the Sixaxis overall is indeed a disappointment. The Dualshock also feels better. I hope that a rumble version comes along soon so that we can get that rumbling feeling back and also a bit of weight and thus hopefully a controller that is at least as good as a Dualshock with a few added buttons and tilt... That would probably work out just fine. Unfortunate that one has to buy a new controller to get there, but if such a thing ever emerges I'm likely to buy one to replace this piece of kebab.

I have tried Motorstorm, Resistance: Fall of Man and also the Gran Tourismo HD Concept 2.0 which loaded from the PlayStation Store nicely. I had no problem with feeling of speed on Motorstorm, jaggies on the other hand were very visible and rumble would be so perfect for that game. I don't think there is anything that really wowed me there initially (I mean it looks good, but nothing so new in terms of high-def gaming), but I'm sure I'll enjoy the Canyon locale quite a bit once I really get into it. Also, the intro films are really cool. Where as Motorstorm had potential for excitement, GT HD Concept looked quite bland. It runs well, but the track and the environment lack detail and without rumble the sterile feeling just gets accentuated. I know, I know, it is just Concept but I hoped for more. Again, these are just quick tasters though, I will seriously start to play these games later. Resistance was different in that it needed to perform an initial setup process (45-50 seconds), which was strange for a console game but I guess has to do with loading times. I think this game has a really promising story, which is also why I bought it. People also keep telling me that this game heats up later on, so I guess first few minutes of the game are not much to go by. It looks OK, the 3D looks a bit cartoony in some ways compared to COD/MOH games I've been playing lately, but that was just one initial observation. Gunfire would benefit from rumble, weird to play without it as the tactile response is missing.

I must stress that these were very preliminary experiences and I will get more into playing this beast later on. So far no big surprises, I really do miss rumble and hope it comes soon. The games that I have run well, but don't really feel they'd be something Xbox 360 couldn't handle. The menu system and the whole package is quite slick and has a nice selection of connectors, although cheap plastic and poor controller detract points. It is also noisier than I expected.

Very hard to tell how much of an added value having both consoles is. As always, the games will decide.

@MikeB

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but it was revealed 60.000 PS3 were pre-ordered

Were they actually sold though?
One random sample showed a UK Dixon had two pre-orders but no-one came and picked them up.

The Danish launch numbers were approximately 6000 sold PS3s.