@MikeB

Quote:

I greatly prefer the PS3 method

Of having no choice?

For the price of a Sixaxis you can get a 360 controller and a charge and play kit (rechargeable battery + USB charge cable), which lets you charge from any USB connector.

You can also put regular rechargeable batteries in the battery compartment that comes with the 360 or just use regular batteries if you prefer.

Or if you prefer you can get a quick charge kit that lets you charge two battery packs at a time. That way you can choose to always have a spare battery pack ready.

Oh, and of course the charge and play kit actually has a cable that's long enough for you to sit at a comfortable distance from your console.

Oh, and the 360 actually pauses the game you're in if your battery happens to run dry while playing.

*Much* more comfortable.

@jtsiren

Quote:

Sounds like a difference between connections on MikeB's television? Sometimes different outputs output different levels (even thought brightness is set at same). I guess he used component for Xbox 360 and HDMI for PS3.

Quite likely, yes. You have both consoles side by side, so I assume you can tell whether the actual output levels appear to be about the same. In screenshots the 360 tends to look somewhat dark while the PS3 looks washed out. I assume this is not the case in actual use, since the 360 looks fine when you actually have it hooked up - I figure the same is true for PS3?

Regardless, even if the inputs/outputs are slightly different, that's what settings on televisions are for. I have a multimedia and a games setting on my Dell monitor and switch accordingly. Things look great and certainly not too dark in any way.

Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 04:53 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Of having no choice?

I prefer good futureproof defaults. I think you will own a PS3 eventually considering you are a true hardcore gamer unlike me and I am having a blast as a non hardcore (priorily mostly PC) gamer, currently you prefer to hate the PS3 for your own reasons, but in the end I think you're going to be a (maybe to annoying levels) fanboy.

@MikeB

Quote:

I prefer good futureproof defaults.

Like having a non-changeable rechargeable battery meaning the entire controller will eventually have to be replaced? Doesn't sound future-proof to me. You gotta admit that the 360 way is a) more flexible and b) more sensible. That it's also cheaper is just a bonus.

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I think you will own a PS3 eventually

It's possible. I like shiny new toys. They have a whole lot of catching up to do, before the PS3 offers any substantial value from a gaming point of view though.

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currently you prefer to hate the PS3 for your own reasons

No. I don't hate the PS3. I loathe Sony. I find the PS3 sub-par feature wise and games wise. I don't particularly like its looks or its size, but that won't stop me from getting it if it offers me something of value to me.

I don't think I'll be able to live up to your levels of PS3 fanboyism no matter how hard I try though.

Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 05:29 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I greatly prefer the PS3 method, I am(/was) constantly charging my keyboard, joypads, mouse, mp3 players, etc AA/ AAA batteries. I greatly prefer the PS3 Sixaxis / Nintendo DS method of having an internal battery which doesn't need to be constantly removed, when the battery is low, simply connect to a PS3 or PC USB port using the Micro USB port on the Sixaxis.

I certainly don't advocate using AA batteries to run Xbox 360 controllers when Microsoft has very nice battery packs available. I just know that sometimes when batteries have run out and I like to play wirelessly, a few spare AA batteries may save my day. I like having options and I have used this option.

Normally I use the Xbox 360 controller just like the PS3 one, when the battery runs low, I connect the cable and it loads while playing. This is one option, not a bad option of course. I don't have the quick-load station, but if I did, I could actually have many battery packs always loaded and available for the Xbox 360 - so far the play and charge cable has been sufficient for me (with those spare AA's at times helping out). And then there's the option of using AA batteries or AA reloadable batteries.

With PS3 all I can do is connect the controller when the built-in battery is running low. And batteries do wear out, when my Sixaxis battery eventually does die (or loose power permanently) I will have to replace the battery via a maintenance shop or using a screw-driver. On Xbox 360 I simply swap the battery pack or dig into my supply of AA's.

I think it is good PS3 includes reloadable battery as default, but other than that its options are currently severely limited compared to Xbox 360. I think the latter wins this small fight, Microsoft seems to have put some tought into making the wireless experience easy and with the AA battery pack (standard) and quick-load station, spare batteries (not AA batteries but "real" battery packs) and play-and-charge cable as accessories they seem to have it covered.

@Trezzer

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You gotta admit that the 360 way is a) more flexible

No, I don't. For instance I can choose between HDMI or component, I can do almost anything I want with the device through its 'Other OS' support, there already are a very wide range of Bluetooth / USB expansions such as input devices I can use, etc, etc. Believe me I could go on and on about this giving examples.

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b) more sensible

IMO the PS3 feature set makes more sense with regard to the future. The PS3 is mostly geared towards the still rapidly evolving High Definition gaming market, HDMI 1.3 and Blu-Ray make sense for this.

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They have a whole lot of catching up to do

I don't think so, on the gaming front we will see some very promising results before the end of the year.

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don't particularly like its looks or its size

At first I wasn't sure about the looks myself. In upright position I didn't like the look that much. Now sitting inside my media cabinet, the device looks very very slick!

The size is smaller than the XBox 360, as there's not huge external transfomator to deal with. And there's not need many expansions, if you like high definition movies or want to connect to a wireless network, etc , IMO those are very nice bonuses!

@MikeB
I think most people agree that the PS3 is a very nice and powerful console.
The problem the average gamer has is the pricetag.
The average gamer does not care about blueray at the moment, due to the fact that there are hardly any movies yet and no one knows if the format will flop or not. The ps3 would have done much much better if it was priced like the xbox 360 and had a cheaper dvdrom or similar instead.

Also by the time blueray gets enough titles to be worth having for the average guy, then the price will probably only be a fraction of what it is now and then people could easily afford a standalone player.

@Trezzer

Quote:

You have both consoles side by side, so I assume you can tell whether the actual output levels appear to be about the same. In screenshots the 360 tends to look somewhat dark while the PS3 looks washed out. I assume this is not the case in actual use, since the 360 looks fine when you actually have it hooked up - I figure the same is true for PS3?

It would help to have the same game to test on both systems, which I currently don't. I'll try and see if there is a demo of some Xbox 360 game I have available for PS3 later. Digging to my memory of playing on both consoles, maybe the PS3 really does have a bit higher gamma level on HDMI vs. Xbox 360 on component... but I may just be imagining things. I certainly haven't ever considered Xbox 360 image dark, but perhaps the PS3 image is a bit on the lighter side.

My memory may fail me totally on this, so if I get around to testing it I will let you know. Of course best would be to test PS3 also via component to see how much the input affects this...

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Trezzer Quote: You gotta admit that the 360 way is a) more flexible No, I don't.

I'm sure Trezzer meant by "360 way" the way Xbox 360 handles controller batteries... Surely you agree that is more flexible and sensible on Xbox 360 (giving that PS3 has a better default in standard battery vs. standard AA pack)?

@MikeB

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No, I don't. For instance I can choose between

Mike, we were talking controllers, so could you stick to the subject for once? I don't understand why it's so hard for you to admit that the PS3 is less flexible in this respect.

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between HDMI or component

Can you choose VGA? Can you choose to use your monitor with no HDCP support over DVI to play games? The PS3 has composite, component, s-video, scart, HDMI. The 360 has composite, component, s-video, scart, VGA. Unlike the PS3 the 360 will also detect what you have plugged in so you won't get the "no signal" that the PS3 dishes up, if you hook it up to some device without pre-configuring for it.

Regardless of which output you choose the 360 will scale any game to fit the resolution you choose. The PS3 will not.

So... those choices again?

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I don't think so, on the gaming front we will see some very promising results before the end of the year.

Currently there are some 80+ exclusive titles for the PS3 and around 30+ for the PS3 (possibly it dropped below 30 recently).

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The size is smaller than the XBox 360, as there's not huge external transfomator to deal with.

That doesn't make that insanely huge black box any smaller. An external PSU can be somewhere else (in my case on the floor below the 360 - entirely out of sight).

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And there's not need many expansions, if you like high definition movies

As we all know the 360 does this out of the box. It even comes with the cables for it unlike the PS3.

Additionally the 360 lets you stream high definition video, pictures and audio to the console straight from your computer. It even lets you hook up an iPod or a PSP for instant access to your music. On the PS3 you first have to copy them across and even then you can't play your own music in every game.

Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 06:15 PM.

@Tomas

Quote:

The problem the average gamer has is the pricetag

Agreed.

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The average gamer does not care about blueray at the moment, due to the fact that there are hardly any movies yet and no one knows if the format will flop or not.

I view Blu-Ray movies as an added bonus. It's the gaming where Blu-Ray will really shine for me, Resistance: Fall of Man and Motorstorm already in their current form wouldn't fit a DVD and this is only the beginning.

DVD-Rom is old, PS2 games already fill them up, PS3's focuss is complex games in high definition graphics and audio, IMO it makes sense for this to go along with a state of the art storage format.

Can you imagine the horrors if next year or so people would have had to upgrade their PS3's with Blu-Ray or a similar drive? And what about the other benefits b esides storage provided by the Blu-Ray standard, such as scratch resistance of discs, higher tolerance and far more silent loading? If people really hate Blu-Ray due to Microsoft propaganda, I think they don't know what they actually hate (neglecting the benefits they don't know about).

I would be very dissapointed if Sony would have listened to Microsoft's propaganda and would have went without a Blu-Ray drive, still the Cell and 'OtherOS' support would have made all the difference to me.

@MikeB

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Resistance: Fall of Man and Motorstorm already in their current form wouldn't fit a DVD

Non-sense. Of course they would if they had to. Mass Effect fits on a single dvd.

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PS2 games already fill them up

Name one, please, where the majority of space isn't taken up by FMV. Of course we already know the answer why the developers prefer to fill the dvds with FMV: FMV is a low enough bitrate to be played at the lowest speed and this lets them place data at the faster areas of the dvd for faster loading. It's just filler, really.

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If people really hate Blu-Ray due to Microsoft propaganda

I doubt anyone hates the data storage format. What they don't like is having to pay extra for something they 1) don't want and 2) is far slower than the dvd in the 360 on average.

Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 07:55 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 07:55 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Mike, we were talking controllers, so could you stick to the subject for once? I don't understand why it's so hard for you to admit that the PS3 is less flexible in this respect.

The Sixaxis is light-weight a battery pack would likely have made the Sixaxis bigger and bulkier, so it depends on personal preferences really, considering how easy it is to charge the Sixaxis I see no benefit in buying additional battery packs.

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Can you choose to use your monitor with no HDCP support over DVI to play games

Yes, to use your PC monitor as your screen you will need to find a HDMI to VGA converter or HDMI to DVI converter, depending on what PC monitor you have.

Blu-Ray movies would be a problem. So, if you only want to play games on your ps3, then you can go with a monitor. You won’t lose resolution quality and you’ll be paying less. If you want to use your ps3 as multimedia device, then buy the HDTV. You’ll pay more, but you’ll get more entertainment out of the ps3’s extras.

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80+ exclusive titles for the PS3 and around 30+ for the PS3

110+! Great!

"1up.com: "Important Xbox 360 exclusives to head over to PS3!""

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

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That doesn't make that insanely huge black box any smaller.

It's not as wide as my DVD player, about the same size as my good old Sony VCR. Should easily fit inside any media cabinet! It's relatively heavy though, but it's unlikely you want to move it much anyway.

@Trezzer

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Trezzer wrote: @MikeB Quote: PS3 is priced and specced as the Mercedes of gaming consoles You know.. it didn't sound clever when Harrison said it and it doesn't sound better when repeated. It's a rather pathetic attempt at rationalizing their pricing. Considering the quality of the experience it's more like it's the Toyota (The homogenous PS3 experience) up against the Rolls Royce (The heterogenous 360 experience) then. Only this time the Rolls is cheaper.

I would take the Toyota (Lexus even more) over the Rolls any day. Only when I want a car for a special occasion, or I would want to sell it immediately I would take the Rolls. To me your comparison is even more pathetic.

If the 360 was the Rolls, I would expect the HD-DVD drive, WiFi and HDMI to be standard and not cluttered around the 360. In my opinion it's not done elegantly.

Quote:

Quote: However eventually most people will be able to afford this "Mercedes" At that point in time digital distribution may very well have made it irrelevant though. But only time will tell.

Could you explain that a bit more?

@Trezzer

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Non-sense. Of course they would if they had to. Mass Effect fits on a single dvd

Mass Effect is not Motorstorm nor Resistance, does Mass Effect support lossless 7.1 audio?

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Name one, please, where the majority of space isn't taken up by FMV.

God of War 2.

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is far slower than the dvd in the 360 on average

Only for smaller games which could be fully stored on the PS3's harddrive anyway. Dual layer discs (anything above 4.7 GB) on average will load quite a bit slower and loading speeds are less predictable for game developers requiring more planning for optimal results.

@MikeB

Quote:

Blu-Ray movies would be a problem. So, if you only want to play games on your ps3, then you can go with a monitor. You won’t lose resolution quality and you’ll be paying less.

You can go with a monitor, but only a select few (expensive). The Playstation 3 will not output via DVI to a non-HDCP compliant screen. And yes, that includes games.

And yes, I'm well aware of the 360 "exclusives" heading to PS3. The number is still much greater for 360 with new titles announced each week, though.

Heh, nice typo I made previously. I'm sure you can figure out which one was the 360 number though ;)

Quote:

Should easily fit inside any media cabinet!

I strongly doubt it would fit the one spot I have available: where the old Xbox used to be.

Quote:

The Sixaxis is light-weight a battery pack would likely have made the Sixaxis bigger and bulkier, so it depends on personal preferences really, considering how easy it is to charge the Sixaxis I see no benefit in buying additional battery packs.

Well, it's not as if you have a choice anyway... Which brings us back to the flexibility on 360. And paying for what you want and no more.

@jiyong

Quote:

If the 360 was the Rolls, I would expect the HD-DVD drive, WiFi and HDMI to be standard and not cluttered around the 360. In my opinion it's not done elegantly.

Please understand that I am first and foremost talking about 360 and PS3 as gaming machines. I consider VGA more practical than HDMI - that's just for my setup though. If I had a different set-up it might be different.

What I am talking about is first and foremost the gaming experience. Everything on the 360 Just Works(TM). Want to talk to friends across games? Listen to your own music? Stream content to the console? Have the same interface across the board so you don't have one for starting apps, one for buying things and one for interacting with people? Those things may seem minor, but that's where things are at today. Where PS3 is at now is where the last generation was with the old Xbox Live - and even then it's not quite there yet.

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Could you explain that a bit more?

What I mean is that by the time one format has won a decisive victory (if either one will), it is most likely that digital distribution is in place in areas with hi-def TV sets - effectively rendering physical media obsolete for anything but games.

@MikeB

Quote:

God of War 2.

Nice try. Most of the space is indeed taken up by FMV. Try again. With FMV downsampled the game fits a single layer dvd - just have a look at any torrent sites.

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Mass Effect is not Motorstorm nor Resistance, does Mass Effect support lossless 7.1 audio?

I doubt it would do that. Very few people have 7.1 set-ups. And yes, Mass Effect is neither of the others. It is much bigger and has better visual quality (even though Motorstorm isn't far behind).

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Only for smaller games which could be fully stored on the PS3's harddrive anyway. Dual layer discs (anything above 4.7 GB) on average will load quite a bit slower and loading speeds are less predictable for game developers requiring more planning for optimal results.

Why should you have to install games to harddrive?

And no, on average the 12x DVD will still be faster. Why? Because even the slowest layer is only slower than 2x Blu-ray in the first part of one layer. The rest of the layer is as fast or faster than 2x Blu-ray. The outer layer is much faster than 2x Blu-ray. A quick estimate would be that 20% of one layer will have slightly lower read speeds than Blu-ray. The developers can structure their data, so non-essential data will be there (like FMV or music).

Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 08:24 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 08:20 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 08:19 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 25-Mar-2007 at 08:17 PM.

no need to say more.


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@MikeB

Quote:

DVD-Rom is old, PS2 games already fill them up, PS3's focuss is complex games in high definition graphics and audio, IMO it makes sense for this to go along with a state of the art storage format.

So did alot of the ps1 games do on a cdrom. The funny part is that the games themself used no more than 30-100megs or so, while the cds where instead filled up with uncompressed cd audio.
The only real advantage i see of blueray for current video games are being able to fit more pre rendered cut scenes in high definition. This is not very important in my opinion, since both the ps3 and xbox 360 is powerful enough to have real time rendered cut scenes that looks impressive enough.

What exactly does motorstorm and fall of man have that would not fit on a dvd when compressed properly?
Most ps2 games does in fact not use up a dual layer dvd at all, with the exception of a few games that has alot of pre rendered cut scenes.