@MikeB

Quote:

The NTSC version doesn't render in 720p, the HD mode just increases the number of horizontal lines rendering from 512 to 640 (480p with full size buffers). According to Sony you will get the best result on a PAL PS3.

Isn't it great how bad news always turn into good news! 720p was so last gen anyway.

@BrianK

From the article.

"According to Sony's Hugo Bustillos, the mode had to be left out of the European version because there wasn't enough space left on the game disc after support for all the extra European languages was added in."

@ the blu-ray not good for games naysayers

Um.. yeah... DVD has it's limits on a PS2 game. Shock/horror.

_________________
Amiga 4000 CSPPC [retired]
Intel i7 3930K @ 4.3Ghz / Corsair H100 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 16 GB / 2 x 240GB Corsair Force GT SSD / 2 x EVGA 2GB 680GTX SC Sig / 3 x Benq XL2420T
27" iMac / i7 @ 3.4 / 680mx / 3TB Fusion / 32GB RAM

@KrasH

Quote:

@ the blu-ray not good for games naysayers

Where have you found such people? Not in these threads in my view at least. I don't think anyone disagrees more space is good. The argument has been will it really substantially hinder game development since really large games can come on many discs anyway. But as is, more space is good of course.

Why God of War 2 fills a disc is unknown to me. Does it use FMV because the engine can't handle everything on a PS2? Why 720p couldn't have been included because of space if it doesn't even render anything at a higher res according to MikeB? Is the reason really disc space or perhaps PAL PS2 not having the juice for it, not bothering to implement it or whatever?

They left out 1080i from the latest PS2 GT too from PAL version, which sucked. I would have bought it otherwise back then.

On the OtherOS front it looks like as of 1.6 installing another OS is a bit easier.

Previously you needed 2 files before you could install anything, one of these had to be downloaded from Sony.

This appears to be no longer the case, all you need now is a bootloader which does *not* come from Sony.


Any arguments about commercial OSs running on PS3 are now over. You do *not* need a license or to sign any NDA to install another OS.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@KrasH

Quote:

The 20GB version of the PS3 should never have been released. It's good that it's no more.

Well, it loks like it's on it's way out the door in Japan too:
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/18/ps3-20gb-on-its-way-out-in-japan-too/#comments

@MikeB

Quote:

The NTSC version doesn't render in 720p, the HD mode just increases the number of horizontal lines rendering from 512 to 640 (480p with full size buffers). According to Sony you will get the best result on a PAL PS3.

Ahh yes we've tracked the problem to Sony. 640 is not considered high def, thanks sony for using a bad term.

@minator

Quote:

Any arguments about commercial OSs running on PS3 are now over. You do *not* need a license or to sign any NDA to install another OS.

Not so sure on that the DMCA may have an impact in the USA. DMCA would say that if that other commercial OS cirumvents Sony's access controls it would be illegal to distribute.

@jtsiren
Quote:

jtsiren wrote: @KrasH Quote: @ the blu-ray not good for games naysayers Where have you found such people? Not in these threads in my view at least. I don't think anyone disagrees more space is good. The argument has been will it really substantially hinder game development since really large games can come on many discs anyway. But as is, more space is good of course. Why God of War 2 fills a disc is unknown to me. Does it use FMV because the engine can't handle everything on a PS2? Why 720p couldn't have been included because of space if it doesn't even render anything at a higher res according to MikeB? Is the reason really disc space or perhaps PAL PS2 not having the juice for it, not bothering to implement it or whatever? They left out 1080i from the latest PS2 GT too from PAL version, which sucked. I would have bought it otherwise back then.

The only thing in this thread remotely anti blu-ray (that I remember) was about it's speed compared to DVD (on the first couple of pages of the thread).

The naysayers I am referring to are from other threads on other sites (digg especially) where people were complaining about the price of the PS3 and blamed Blu-ray for it, saying that DVD was enough for next gen games, as used by the Xbox 360.

I tend to think blu-ray is good for games, and I'd hate to swap game disks when playing. That actually reminds me of Wing Commander (forget which one) that came out on the PS1 back in the day on 4-5 CD's (or was it more?)

In regards to God of War 2, the limit was apparently the "language support". I haven't played the game, so I don't know if it's FMV, different audio for different languages or something like that.

_________________
Amiga 4000 CSPPC [retired]
Intel i7 3930K @ 4.3Ghz / Corsair H100 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 16 GB / 2 x 240GB Corsair Force GT SSD / 2 x EVGA 2GB 680GTX SC Sig / 3 x Benq XL2420T
27" iMac / i7 @ 3.4 / 680mx / 3TB Fusion / 32GB RAM

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @KrasH Quote: The 20GB version of the PS3 should never have been released. It's good that it's no more. Well, it loks like it's on it's way out the door in Japan too: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/18/ps3-20gb-on-its-way-out-in-japan-too/#comments

About bloody time. The 20 GB version blew and was only released to "compete" with the Xbox 360's price point.

My 60GB is plenty for now, although I will be ordering a bigger HDD to install into it in the next few months. Thankfully, the PS3 recognized my 500GB WD external HDD for backing up. (The backup and recovery tool in the PS3 OS is pretty nifty indeed). Swap out the drives, do a recovery onto the new drive, everything back to where I have it. But with a bigger drive.

edit: funky quotes yet again.

Last edited by KrasH on 19-Apr-2007 at 09:13 AM.
Last edited by KrasH on 19-Apr-2007 at 09:12 AM.

_________________
Amiga 4000 CSPPC [retired]
Intel i7 3930K @ 4.3Ghz / Corsair H100 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 16 GB / 2 x 240GB Corsair Force GT SSD / 2 x EVGA 2GB 680GTX SC Sig / 3 x Benq XL2420T
27" iMac / i7 @ 3.4 / 680mx / 3TB Fusion / 32GB RAM

@BrianK

Quote:

Not so sure on that the DMCA may have an impact in the USA. DMCA would say that if that other commercial OS cirumvents Sony's access controls it would be illegal to distribute

Possibly, but but companies aren't usually that stupid.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@BrianK

Quote:

Ahh yes we've tracked the problem to Sony. 640 is not considered high def, thanks sony for using a bad term.

God of War 2 has been optimised to look good on HDTVs, but the game is not 720p. The NTSC version is 480p with the hidden option of increasing the resolution by 25%, the game is still running in 480p though, 576p is a higher resolution.

A HDTV would then likely scale the input towards its 720p or 1080p native display, upscaled from the 480p / 567p source output.

From a developer:

"It should also be noted that when playing the game on a PS3 via a component or HDMI lead, it runs in true 576p and not just an upscaled version of 576i. The Enhanced Definition (ED) output is forced from the PS2 graphics chip which is why a lot of PS2 games - not just GoWII - will look a lot better. By contrast, if you boot up the US GoWII on an NTSC PS3 and switch Progressive Scan mode on, there will be no difference as the emulator is pushing the 480p mode regardless," the statement explains.

The God of War 2 devs also note that us PAL gamers get the best deal when it comes to playing PS2 games on our PS3s.

"What this basically means is that the PAL PS3 is giving the best PS2 visuals you will be able to get anywhere!" concludes the statement.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Apr-2007 at 01:49 PM.

@minator

Quote:

On the OtherOS front it looks like as of 1.6 installing another OS is a bit easier.

BTW, update 1.7 is now available:

- You can now download PlayStation format software from the PS Store and play it on your PS3
- You can use saved data for PlayStation format software on the PSP
- You can use the vibration function of accessories that are for use with PlayStation and PlayStation 2 format software.
- Backward compatibility and XMB improvements.

Well there are plenty of reports of UK retailers discounting the PS3...

...however Sony denies any forthcoming price cuts:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5283&Itemid=2

Sony's original sales target for up to March 31 of this year was 6 million units sold. They missed that mark by just over 2 million units.

Quote:

Analysts believe a price cut is inevitable, as the company struggles to catch Microsoft’s early lead with Xbox 360, and the $250 Wii continues to sell s many as can be produced. However, Sony’s plan has generally been to hold tight and hope that demand for Blu-ray drives will increase, by the end of this year. The company already subsidizes its hardware sales, and has reported disappointing financials for its games division. A price cut would be financially difficult and would send a message that confidence in its Blu-ray strategy is low.

If Sony can stick to it's guns and maintain this price point long enough for the system-selling exclusives to come out in 2008, then things won't be so bad for them. However, Square-Enix has announced that they have not determined which platform(s) Final Fantasy 13 will be released on. Does that leave only MSG4 as the only major carry-over IP from last generation that is still is a Sony exclusive?

Sure there are NEW IP's coming out, but they are unproven. Not every new IP to be launched this generation will be a "Gears of War"-like system-seller. Even that game excelled beyond expectations. I personally don't feel than any game that can be beaten in 12 hours or less should have sold for $60. I don't care how much replay value there is in multi-player online modes. That's just a scape-goat. Online components don't involve AI at all. PC games have been multi-player online for much longer and we were never charged extra for it. It's supposed to be an additional "feature". I don't like the fact that many of these "NEXT GEN" games make it the primary one and short change the single player experience. On top of that, you are nickel and dimed to death with "micro-transactions" that aren't so "micro" in nature in order to expand the game to the level that is should have been release with at the original premium price point.

Here's why the Wii will win, look at Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition. This game will feature 75% more onscreen pixels than the Gamecube version and have the extra content of the PS2 version released 10 months later, yet is going to have a price tag of $30 according to prelimary listings on GameStop (and other) online store.

@KrasH

Quote:

tend to think blu-ray is good for games, and I'd hate to swap game disks when playing

Oblivion 200+ hours of gameplay on a single DVD. Is swapping discs when you perhaps get food or use the toliet really really that bothering? Perhaps you have a refridgerator by your toliet in front of your HDTV?

@Lou

For UK discounting the PS3:
Online U.K. retailer, Gameseek, has slashed the price of PlayStation 3 to £387.87. Other retailers such as Play.com, Gamestation, Shopto.com and WH Smith have also begun selling the console for under £400..Stephen Staley from Gameseek responded with - 'I personally believe the cuts are down to overstocking from launch. Credit goes to Sony for supplying for all of the demand, however this has left most retailers with alot of stock...We are obviously selling the console at a loss to try and attract new customers to our site....the consoles costing around £400 you can imagine, its not healthy for any business to have alot of PS3 consoles gathering dust in a warehouse'


Quote:

PC games have been multi-player online for much longer and we were never charged extra for it ...you are nickel and dimed to death with "micro-transactions

Both are not completely true. For example there are many MMOs which charge you a monthly fee. Also, when add-ons for those games come out they aren't a microtransaction but a macro one $20-$50 add-ons. Also, at certain point those addons became requirements to play. The vast majority of microtransactions are not requirements to continue play. Though they do open up new challenges and areas such as the coming Halo 2 maps for example.

Last edited by BrianK on 19-Apr-2007 at 02:34 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

For UK discounting the PS3:

Yeah, reading some quotes from local Finnish forums suggests that many Finnish retailers too have stock left over from launch day, some very significant percentages. Has it been confirmed Sony missed the six million mark by two million or is that just suggested at this time?

Token nods at rumble in the new firware are good. Now sell me my ShockAxis and I'm happy.

@KrasH

Quote:

KrasH wrote: @jtsiren Quote: jtsiren wrote: @KrasH >@ the blu-ray not good for games naysayers Where have you found such people? Not in these threads in my view at least. ... The only thing in this thread remotely anti blu-ray (that I remember) was about it's speed compared to DVD (on the first couple of pages of the thread). The naysayers I am referring to are from other threads on other sites...

Well, wouldn't it have been more fruitful to post your response to those sites then?

Again, I just wanted to make sure everyone understood my position on the space issue (and I gather, the position of many others here): more space is good. The only question is will Blu-ray make a significant difference over what will be offered on DVD for Xbox 360 (whether in single or multi-disc format). I don't think the loading speed question is that significant either (and there are workarounds as developers get used to the system), so I don't think PS3 will really suffer from that.

What I'm not so sure about is, did Sony make the right choice by sticking to Blu-ray in terms of how much market they will be able to gather this time around. If Microsoft continues to move faster, be more agile (maybe release the next gen sooner) and with the Wii monster out there, the price of Blu-ray has cost Sony too. Blu-ray probably won't be that significant for games (maybe only for the odd exclusive here and there) and the movie player benefit for sales will only last a short while until stand-alones get way cheaper.

Don't get me wrong. That is one nice box in many ways and whatever happens on the market probably won't affect a multi-platform player like myself that much. But I do enjoy dissecting these issues and when all is said and done, PS3 like Xbox 360 certainly has its controversial sides too worthy of conversation.

Last edited by jtsiren on 19-Apr-2007 at 02:59 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Both are not completely true. For example there are many MMOs which charge you a monthly fee. Also, when add-ons for those games come out they aren't a microtransaction but a macro one $20-$50 add-ons. Also, at certain point those addons became requirements to play. The vast majority of microtransactions are not requirements to continue play. Though they do open up new challenges and areas such as the coming Halo 2 maps for example.

MMO's are sold as MMO's. There is no off-line single player adventure. Even World of Warcraft's first month is only $20 whether you buy it in a store or download it. Addons are addons and depending how much content there is, is priced accordingly.

An example of what I mean is Gears of War's first additions. Epic wanted them to be free because they couldn't get them out in time with the original packaging...Microsoft forced a fee. ... Then there's the Oblivion horse armor stuff and then there's the EA "hints" and "cheats" that you can purchase... Cheats used to be part of the game that you'd find listed in a magazine a couple of months after release. It's just getting ridiculous.

@Lou

Quote:

An example of what I mean is Gears of War's first additions. Epic wanted them to be free because they couldn't get them out in time with the original packaging...Microsoft forced a fee. ... Then there's the Oblivion horse armor stuff and then there's the EA "hints" and "cheats" that you can purchase... Cheats used to be part of the game that you'd find listed in a magazine a couple of months after release. It's just getting ridiculous

Part of this one has to write off to learning the situation. Microtransactions and videogames relations didn't really exist before the Xbox. EA cheats one can find in othe rways besides purchasing. Hints on how to play should be included. If I recall I believe either EA or Microsoft said that approach was a failure and likely to not be done again.

A small fee makes some sense afterall there is a cost for a server to hold the info and the bandwidth to download the info. Though if a company wants it to be free Microsoft should work with that company to ensure it is.

@jtsiren

It appears pricing is an issue that Sony is taking on.

Sony President Ryoji Chubachi - 'We are re-examining our [PS3] budgeting process in terms of pricing and volume. Sales assumptions change and the market is competitive. We are in the midst of revisiting our strategy for the PS3.'

UK sales are slowing...ChartTrack leak- PS3 has gone from 165,000 units sold to 34,000 to 17,000 in the UK.

Other sources say March goal of 6M was missed by slighly over 2M.