@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Hammer Quote: Hammer wrote: @tomazkid Without SPUs, Cell’s PPE @3.2Ghz performance is like PowerPC 970 @1.6Ghz. With non optimized code thats pretty much true, but thats still much faster then any AmigaOne or any of the other boards that are currently candidates. -Tig

Yes, as are the Wii and 360 and that's why I say port to them all!

@Tomas

Quote:

Tomas wrote: @MikeB I ask again.. Does the ps3 using linux support video overlay? Because that youtube video only showed it windowed and not in fullscreen..

If I correctly understand the question the answer is yes, my question to you I guess is why is this always so important to you, what exactly do you need to do that has to have video overlay?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

Quote:

Yes, as are the Wii and 360 and that's why I say port to them all!

Wii is the poorest choice, it doesnt have a HD even as an option so getting the OS on the system could be problematic, you cant just go buy a WII and pop in the disk. The Xbox360 isnt a much better option, and it would be more work because Microsoft has made it pretty hard to port an OS to it. The microsoft update from Tuesday broke the ability to run Linux that had been worked out, the hackers will find another way, but that doesnt make it a good home for the OS in my book, update from Microsoft each breaks the ability to run OS4, think thats a good platform for the OS? Then we have the PS3, it has a menu option to boot another OS, its currently running 4 other OSs, comes standard with a HD. Sorry but PS3 is the best of the 3 new game machines to run the OS on by a pretty big margin.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

Quote:

Hammer wrote: Without SPUs, Cell’s PPE @3.2Ghz performance is like PowerPC 970 @1.6Ghz.

Plus I am willing to port the ImageFX PPC modules to the SPUs, which should make them very impressive speed wise.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@MikeB

I voted very interesed because I'll be getting one.

It's relevant to this site because there are alot of people who want to discuss it here AND we all share the common ground of Amiga love.

Plus the option of old amiga games being on the ps3 (like lemmings) and running EUAE on I'm really looking forward to.

Double plus it gonna be the best

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Put the needle to the record when the drum beats go like this...

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @Tigger Quote: Tigger wrote: @Hammer [quote] Hammer wrote: @tomazkid Without SPUs, Cell’s PPE @3.2Ghz performance is like PowerPC 970 @1.6Ghz. With non optimized code thats pretty much true, but thats still much faster then any AmigaOne or any of the other boards that are currently candidates. -Tig

Yes, as are the Wii and 360 and that's why I say port to them all![/quote]

Why MS's 'lockdown' of the console isn't obviously making this, 'no chance, period' immediately is beyond me. Likewise, it seems much less likely that Nintendo would grant licensing or allow another OS on the Wii. Sony, although limiting via their hypervisor, has at least opened the door. Whether or not Hyperion and AInc ever make it happen is obviously open to debate, but for a commercial project, I'm pretty certain we can leave XBox360 and Wii out of it, no matter how much you personally may like either of those.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Tigger

Quote:

If I correctly understand the question the answer is yes, my question to you I guess is why is this always so important to you, what exactly do you need to do that has to have video overlay?

I haven't really heard anyone else make tests with this stuff, but one PS3 owner I was talking to on IRC had issues playing hi-def video under Linux, so I'm guessing that either the player isn't optimized or you need video overlay.

He eventually had to lower the resolution to play the video without dropping frames.

Last edited by Trezzer on 09-Mar-2007 at 06:55 PM.

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: Quote: Yes, as are the Wii and 360 and that's why I say port to them all! Wii is the poorest choice, it doesnt have a HD even as an option so getting the OS on the system could be problematic, you cant just go buy a WII and pop in the disk. The Xbox360 isnt a much better option, and it would be more work because Microsoft has made it pretty hard to port an OS to it. The microsoft update from Tuesday broke the ability to run Linux that had been worked out, the hackers will find another way, but that doesnt make it a good home for the OS in my book, update from Microsoft each breaks the ability to run OS4, think thats a good platform for the OS? Then we have the PS3, it has a menu option to boot another OS, its currently running 4 other OSs, comes standard with a HD. Sorry but PS3 is the best of the 3 new game machines to run the OS on by a pretty big margin. -Tig

Well, people still fail to realize that a commercial OS, such as Amiga OS 4 will not be allowed to run on the PS3 without licensing issues. What you are asking for is to get Amiga Inc. and Hyperion sued by Sony, which they are quite happy to do.

If I still had the PS3 I unboxed, I'd love to read through the manual(s) and look for any licensing clauses that pertain to installing an alternate OS.

Perhaps some current PS3 owners can fill us in?

@Lou

Quote:

sued by Sony, which they are quite happy to do

You are wrong.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: sued by Sony, which they are quite happy to do You are wrong.

How so? Ever hear of Lik-Sang?

@Lou

Unless if the PS3 EULA imposes restrictions on the OSes that are allowed to run on the *built-in* Sony Hypervisor and "Other OS" feature, they cannot sue and will lose if they do so. Now, if the OS in question bypasses any limitation imposed by the Hypervisor, they probably could but I hardly think that Hyperion or any commercial developer would ever take such a risk.

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@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @MikeB Quote: MikeB wrote: @Lou [quote]sued by Sony, which they are quite happy to do You are wrong.

How so? Ever hear of Lik-Sang?[/quote]

That's in a different context. Just as Sony will fight any company if it doesn't adhere to the rules of BR, does that mean Sony will fight any company that produces something that works on the PS3, without being approved by Sony?

That would mean Sony will fight the people that made the Wii controller work on the PS3 and that they will fight M$ for their webcam.

Quote:

Lou wrote: @Tigger Well, people still fail to realize that a commercial OS, such as Amiga OS 4 will not be allowed to run on the PS3 without licensing issues. What you are asking for is to get Amiga Inc. and Hyperion sued by Sony, which they are quite happy to do.

And you'd explain YDL how with your theory? Sony basically can't sue anyone for running an OS on the PS3. I can port whatever OS I want to it and they basically dont care, its more sales for them, which is what they need.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

And you'd explain YDL how with your theory?

And Gentoo
and Fedora
and Debian
and Ubuntu
and NetBSD
and...

Quote:

Sony basically can't sue anyone for running an OS on the PS3. I can port whatever OS I want to it and they basically dont care, its more sales for them, which is what they need.

Indeed, they even have a website dedicated to the subject, you get the installer from there.

Here is a quote from the FAQ:

Q. What types of "Other OSs" can be installed?

A. You can install any system software that is designed to run on PLAYSTATION®3.

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Whyzzat?

@MikeB

I didn't like the idea of using a game console at first, but I changed my mind. It makes more sense than custom hardware, and all else being the same, it's better to have an expensive Amiga that's also a PS3 than an expensive Amiga. The biggest advantage though is being able to wash our hands of the burden of the whole "design, build and support it from within" nightmare. Hell yea, let someone else worry about the hardware, someone who doesn't have to support the project in sales probably counted in the hundreds.

An added benefit, there will be tons of these things, even if it's not the dominant console, it will be readily available, so there will be a huge amount of people who, in order to try OS4, only need to buy OS4 having the hardware already. The bar is low enough to let in investigative users. None of the other hardware being talked about (other than Amithlon hardware and AROS hardware) has this advantage.

It makes more sense than anything else right now.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is Hyperion's support for the idea considering the arguments they made in their official position on Amithlon. Every single bullet point they listed, exists in amplified and aggravated form on the PS3.

Is Amiga Inc supportive of this, or is this something that would have to wait until the AmigaOne partnership has a meeting of the minds?

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@minator

Quote:

And Gentoo and Fedora and Debian and Ubuntu

Emm.. these Linux distros...

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@minator

yes, from that site:
Quote:

Installing an “Other OS" on PLAYSTATION®3 requires two files. One is the “Other OS Installer” distributed by Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (which is called installer hereafter), and the other is the “Other OS boot loader” (called boot loader hereafter) provided by the third party. The installer installs the boot loader of an "Other OS" on a boot‐loader‐dedicated storage area of PLAYSTATION®3. Once the boot loader of an "Other OS" has been successfully installed, it automatically starts up instead of the PLAYSTATION®3’s system software at every power on by selecting it as”Default System”in the menu of the PLAYSTATION®3’s system software. The installer installs only the boot loader of an "Other OS". It is assumed that any further installations, such as the installation of "Other OS" files on the built-in hard disk of PLAYSTATION®3, are performed when the installed boot loader starts up. For more details, please contact the provider of the boot loader you are using.

So it seems somehow, Sony was "convinced" to write an installer for these implimentations' bootloader.

People: Linux is a free OS.

Can someone explain to me how Sony is going to be convinced to create an installer for OS4's bootloader without asking for a cut of it's sales?

Again, with the millions of people with PS3's...can one person read the EULA with regards to "Other OS"?

Now, do these Linux distros use the same bootloader, hence installer? Again, it seems Sony issues this installer. Good luck with that.

Last edited by Lou on 09-Mar-2007 at 11:07 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 09-Mar-2007 at 10:57 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 09-Mar-2007 at 10:55 PM.

@Lou

The Other OS Installer does not care what the "Other OS" is, it just installs the boot loader you provided. It could be a CP/M boot loader for all it cares.

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@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: Can someone explain to me how Sony is going to be convinced to create an installer for OS4's bootloader without asking for a cut of it's sales?

The installer doesn't know it's installing OS4's bootloader, apparently. From the page it appears there are two files, one is just Sony's installer, which does nothing but install the other file, which is provided by Hyperion. Hyperion's provided file then is responsible for booting and installing the rest of the OS.

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@T_Bone

Quote:

T_Bone wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: Can someone explain to me how Sony is going to be convinced to create an installer for OS4's bootloader without asking for a cut of it's sales? The installer doesn't know it's installing OS4's bootloader, apparently. From the page it appears there are two files, one is just Sony's installer, which does nothing but install the other file, which is provided by Hyperion. Hyperion's provided file then is responsible for booting and installing the rest of the OS.

Again, the installer may come with an EULA that forbids anything commercial or "for profit" from being installed.

This can be solved by someone who has installed a linux distro on his/her PS3. Anyone?