@Jorge

Quote:

Also, nobody seems to complain, that PS3 demo download seems to be a huge success and MS copies that. Again, fundamentally different then what XBox offers(ed) (but _after_ PS3 demos were available, all of a sudden you can download 360 demos now).

I don't know where you got that impression from, but demos have been available on Xbox 360 from *day one*. Both for full retail titles and for all Xbox Live Arcade titles. There are currently 50+ demos available here in Denmark (not counting XBLA titles).

Quote:

If Live is so good, why always use this as ammunition against Sony?

Maybe because it's a real and tangible difference unlike what Sony usually attacks Microsoft and Nintendo with?

Quote:

Currently, the demos don't look to bad and are cheap (usually below $10 or free). That's cheaper then renting Block Buster if you want to get a taste of a game but are not sure if you gonna buy it or not (and you can keep it, especially because the cost 60 bucks).

Uhm, hopefully Sony aren't charging for demos? I thought they were only charging for games and that demos were free like on Xbox 360.

Quote:

I don't say Sony doesn't copy, but it is strange that Sony gets a bashing thru out the press for what ever they do, while the same people remain silent when MS does the same

Well, so far it seems you're confused about who does what and when

Last edited by Trezzer on 11-Jan-2007 at 04:34 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 11-Jan-2007 at 04:33 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Hmmm, my internet bandwidth is about 60 MB per minute, so that wasn't the bottleneck. I will perform more in depth testing tonight trying to download a couple of GBs (Max 5 downloads pending) from their server and when I wake up see how far the download has progressed. This time I didn't clock the time, as I wasn't expecting this to take so long. I guess local server traffic will be a bit lower during the night. Later I will do some testing during the day.

Last night's downloads went fast, currently it's crawling again.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Uhm, hopefully Sony aren't charging for demos? I thought they were only charging for games and that demos were free like on Xbox 360.

Demos including Gran Turismo Concept and online multiplayer are free, commercial games are not. (as low as 2.99, Lemmings 2 costs $5.99, Blast Factor $7.99, GripShift $9.99, most expensive is Tekken 5 fron Hong Kong store $15, etc)

Nice MTV GameWeek videos including some good Resistance footage:

http://www.us.playstation.com/Media?id=15725
http://www.us.playstation.com/Media?id=15724

Last edited by MikeB on 11-Jan-2007 at 06:03 PM.

Not only US tech execs and PR people are lame.

"Should PS3 have turned up for the European Christmas battle, Xbox 360 would have proved itself the dominant console, a confident Chris Lewis, European Xbox vice president, has suggested.

Apparently, Microsoft was disappointed PS3 didn't show its face. "The lowlight of our Christmas was the lack of anything from our main next-generation competition. We were looking forward to some friendly rivalry and the chance to prove that games look and play better on Xbox 360 - but Sony didn't show!", Lewis "

@MikeB

Quote:

Demos including Gran Turismo Concept and online multiplayer are free, commercial games are not. (as low as 2.99, Lemmings 2 costs $5.99, Blast Factor $7.99, GripShift $9.99, most expensive is Tekken 5 fron Hong Kong store $15, etc)

That was the impression that I had...

And a retail demo like Motorstorm is also free, right? Just like on 360.

As for PS3 vs 360 at Christmas, it's what they've been saying for a while. That it's easier to take on an actual machine than a phantom. As long as the PS3 wasn't released it would still be better in every way because it was "one year newer" and "more powerful". Now that it's out people can see both and judge for themselves - and you've seen the results in this thread yourself.

@Trezzer

Quote:

And a retail demo like Motorstorm is also free, right? Just like on 360.

Of course.

Quote:

As for PS3 vs 360 at Christmas, it's what they've been saying for a while. That it's easier to take on an actual machine than a phantom.

I don't think that would have made much of a difference provided they also had a larger supply. But I am glad they didn't as they have a chance at making good on how they perfomed PR-wise in the US. Game console wise I would have preferred a Japan-only launch for last year, but I understand there are good reasons why they didn't.

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't think that would have made much of a difference provided they also had a larger supply. But I am glad they didn't as they have a chance at making good on how they perfomed PR-wise in the US. Game console wise I would have preferred a Japan-only launch for last year, but I understand there are good reasons why they didn't.

There really was no choice it had to come out Nov 06 in the USA. Else Christmas would be missed. The buying season over people are less willing to front the $$ so they really wouldn't have seen what it did until Nov 07. Since the box is the big Blu-Ray push they had to go with it now else Blu-Ray would be lost. Europe? Unfortunately they don't get it now. But, they may well benefit from the growing pains in the US and Japan.

NPD December US figures are in:

Nintendo DS 1.6 mm
PS2 1.4 mm
GBA 850.7 K
Xbox 360 1.1 mm
Wii 604.2 K
PSP 953.2 K
PS3 490.7 K

These are not North American Totals, so add about 15% (at least based on November's PS3 figures).

Conclusions:

- XBox 360 seems to have performed in December about 6% better than the original XBox did, which in December 2002 sold 1.04 million. The PS3 sells faster than the PS2 did during its launch and faster than the XBox 360 during its launch year (607K for the US in 2005).
- PS3 490.7 K + 15% = 564 K + 226 K = 790K is roughly in line with earlier North American estimates, Japan (Hong Kong and Taiwan figures unknown) was 456,750 = 1 million and 246K units.
- The DS and PS2 did amazingly well. GBA, PSP going strong.
- Nintendo Wii sales were much weaker than earlier CNBC estimates. Clear 'winner' regarding non-handhelds this holiday season was the PS2.
- Total XBox 360 sales for 2005 + 2006 seems to have been about 8 million, probably a little less. The vgcharts.org team has been a lot more accurate than nexgenwars.com's "realtime" guesses.

Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jan-2007 at 09:46 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jan-2007 at 09:37 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jan-2007 at 09:08 AM.

@MikeB

You forgot a bullet point:
- Best performing next-gen platform: Xbox 360.

I'm guessing Gears of War is accountable for the best-selling accessory this Christmas too: The 360 controller (which was followed by the remote and nunchuck - Sixaxxis was in fifth place).

@Trezzer

Quote:

Best performing next-gen platform: Xbox 360

I think that's normal, more next-gen games readily available, no hardware shortages and more time for system software polishment.

Although remarkably, globally the Nintendo Wii is already greatly outperforming the XBox 360 despite shortages. At these rates it will take Nintendo less than half a year to outsell total worldwide XBox 360 sales!

@MikeB

Quote:

Although remarkably, globally the Nintendo Wii is already greatly outperforming the XBox 360 despite shortages. At these rates it will take Nintendo less than half a year to outsell total worldwide XBox 360 sales!

Yup. That's entirely as I would expect.

The question is whether the pace picks up for both 360 and PS3 now that both are out or whether it's something that will gradually speed up as hi-def televisions continue to spread.

The only thing I see that could potentially slow down the Wii is lack of great titles in the pipeline. There are currently very few games on the way that are system sellers and Zelda:TP currently sells better on GameCube than on Wii.

I think that, at least at first, Wii will be a very family-oriented machine with mini-game type games, where there's less reason to pick it up for the regular gamer. Sooner or later we'll see games of a larger scope (besides Zelda) and it will be interesting to an even larger market as long as it's original titles.

@Trezzer

Quote:

I'm guessing Gears of War is accountable for the best-selling accessory this Christmas too: The 360 controller (which was followed by the remote and nunchuck - Sixaxxis was in fifth place).

You sure on that I was seeing places putting the HD-DVD drive for the 360 as being the best selling accessory.

Some HD-DVD info from CES -- Layers being upgraded from 15GB to 17GB. Over 40 studioes have announced movies in the HD-DVD format. Est. 2.5M players by end of 07. Projected 40x sales revenue growth over 2006.

Now one can say there will definitely be more Blu-Ray players on the market since they come in all the PS3s. However, what is hard to project is how this may or may not turn into Blu-Ray movie sales.

Super Multi Blue stand alone player plays both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Also, there's a dual disc that can have both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD recordings. One has to wonder with dual technologies and studioes shipping in both formats will the ending to the format war be delayed? Or consequently have 2 formats side by side and it doesn't really matter which one you picked as there'd be only a handful of exclusives.

@BrianK

Quote:

Super Multi Blue stand alone player plays both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD

The new LG Blu-Ray player will support HD-DVD, but will not suppot HD DVD's interactive features, iHD. Blu-Ray disks played on this device will support all features, according to EngadgetHD.

There is lacking support for Warner Bro.’s TotalHD as well. Blu-Ray exclusive supporters Disney, Fox, and LGF rejected it.

"But Ross Rubin, an analyst at consumer research group NPD, which tracks retail sales of various items, said that the hybrid announcements simply prolong the inevitable demise of one format – a demise that must occur to move the industry forward."

"One industry executive echoed Rubin's view. "I've learned one thing in my industry, and that's never say never," said Jerry Pierce, senior vice president for technology at Universal Studios, in a separate speech, when asked if Universal would support the Warner Bros. plan. "I think it's an interesting idea, [but] a stupid idea. How do you package it? What, is one half red and one half is blue? Where do you put it on the shelf?"

Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jan-2007 at 02:18 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

You sure on that I was seeing places putting the HD-DVD drive for the 360 as being the best selling accessory.

Oh yes.

The HD-DVD drive "merely" shifted some 150000 to date (well, a week or two back). More than 820000 360 controllers were sold on the other hand.

Here's the full list (thanks to Kotaku):

Top 10 Accessory Items - December 2006
360 WIRELESS CONTROLLER 823.8 k
WII REMOTE CONTROLLER 646.7 k
WII NUNCHUK CONTROLLER 497.1 k
PS2 8 MEG MEMORY CARD 474.8 k
PS3 SIXAXIS WIRELESS CONTROLLER 336.0 k
PS2 MEMORY CARD 8 MEG 286.0 k
PS2/PS DUAL SHOCK2 CONTL 263.4 k
PS2/PS BLUE DL SH2 CNTL 245.2 k
360 PLAY & CHARGE KIT 224.6 k
PS2 CORDLESS ACTION CNTLR 219.9 k

Quote:

Some HD-DVD info from CES -- Layers being upgraded from 15GB to 17GB.

And interesting side note is that there will be some experimentation on adding a third layer bringing the total capacity up to 51 GB. It's nothing announced officially or anything, but they'll be working on it.

@MikeB

Quote:

a demise that must occur to move the industry forward.

I tend to agree. The question is whether either format will manage to take hold of the market at all before it's too late.

Last edited by Trezzer on 12-Jan-2007 at 02:20 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

I tend to agree.

I can't imagine this to be Blu-Ray though. Blu-Ray offers the PS3 by far more advantages than for solely movie playing purposes. This year we will likely see millions of PS3 Blu-Ray discs made for gaming, so production costs will drop significantly.

Even in a worst case scenario if the vast majority of content providers currently backing Blu-Ray would suddenly decide in HD-DVD's favour, Sony and MGM will likely keep Blu-Ray alive with their huge movie libraries for many years to come.

Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jan-2007 at 02:46 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jan-2007 at 02:43 PM.

PS3 Linux news:

"RapidMind and Terra Soft Partner to Unleash PlayStation®3 for Linux Developers

WATERLOO, Ontario--(BUSINESS WIRE)--RapidMind and Terra Soft announced today that they have teamed up to make application development for the PlayStation®3 easier than ever. As part of an agreement with Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated, Terra Soft Solutions announced last month the release of Yellow Dog Linux for the PlayStation 3. With the RapidMind Development Platform, developers can easily create applications that will run on the PlayStation 3, as well as other hardware solutions based on the Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell BE).

RapidMind will be providing a full-featured evaluation version of the RapidMind Development Platform v2.0 for distribution from Terra Soft's YDL.net Enhanced accounts. “It’s exciting to imagine what will happen when you put a supercomputer-class PlayStation 3 with a great OS into the hands of developers,” said Ray DePaul, RapidMind President and CEO. “Developers are eager to take advantage of the Cell BE and the PlayStation 3 without the need to understand the underlying architecture of this complex multi-core processor. The RapidMind platform makes that possible.”

PlayStation 3 is the latest interactive entertainment console from Sony, designed for a cutting-edge gaming experience. The PlayStation 3 incorporates the Cell BE processor which was created by IBM, Sony, and Toshiba for more than gaming. The Cell BE is already available from IBM in the form of a blade for the IBM® BladeCenter® Server as well as from Mercury Computer Systems in several form factors.

“The PlayStation 3 places a supercomputer in the home,” said Kai Staats, Terra Soft CEO. “Yellow Dog Linux provides a complete Linux OS for the PlayStation 3 resulting in a very powerful computing platform. We are thrilled to be working with RapidMind to make this platform more accessible for professional developers and hobbyists alike.” Developer’s now have an excellent development platform to develop applications for the Cell BE, whether for deployment on the PlayStation 3 or as a jumping off point for deployments to other Cell BE based products, including those from IBM, Sony, or Mercury.

RapidMind will also be participating in a Hack-a-thon (www.hpc-consortium.net) from January 20th to the 26th for the optimization of applications for the Cell BE, hosted by Terra Soft at their Loveland, Colorado headquarters. RapidMind, along with organizations such as Argonne, Oak Ridge, Colorado State, IBM, Mercury, and Tungsten Graphics have committed resources with dozens of other labs, universities, and individuals planning to participate. The intent of this event is to create a set of application examples to showcase the potential of the Cell BE."

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070111005836&newsLang=en

Some older whitepapers/case studies on Rapidmind's site:

-------------


" Writing Applications for the Cell BE Using RapidMind
This document provides a description of how the RapidMind Development Platform makes programming the Cell Broadband Engine accessible and effective."

http://media.rapidmind.net/wp/cell.pdf

" Cell BE Porting and Tuning with RapidMind: A Case Study
This document shows how an application was ported to and tuned for the Cell Broadband Engine processor with RapidMind, achieving impressive speed results."

http://www.rapidmind.net/cellbe-porting-qjulia

"Crowd Simulation: Cell BE Development Made Simple

Developing a simulation of many thousand characters, each with a mind of their own, is usually a complex task. It requires a large amount of computing power and normally involves a serious effort from the developer in order to achieve reasonable performance. Utilizing the RapidMind Development Platform and the Cell Broadband Engine (Cell BE), achieving excellent performance of this simulation is made simple."

http://media.rapidmind.net/samples/crowds.pdf

"Real-time Ray Tracing

RTT AG provides a high-performance, real-time ray tracer, RealTrace, as part of DeltaGen, their software for complex 3D visualization. A leading global provider of visualization in the automotive, aerospace and consumer goods sector, RTT created the ray tracer using the RapidMind Development Platform running on graphics processing units (GPUs). This application was then demonstrated at SIGGRAPH 2006 on the Cell Broadband Engine, achieving excellent performance."

http://media.rapidmind.net/samples/R...racer_Demo.pdf

@MikeB

Quote:

RTT AG provides a high-performance, real-time ray tracer, RealTrace, as part of DeltaGen, their software for complex 3D visualization.

Realtime raytracing as part of the 3d API for GPUs have been around for sometime, I learned how to use shader technology to do this in 2003 as part of Direct3D and use it within both Render Monkey, and CineFX at an HLSL introduction. ATI and Nvidia have been able to do this for a while. This is not as exciting or useful as it sounds.

What sounds like a great announcement really isn't if you haven't heard of it before..

@MikeB

Quote:

There is lacking support for Warner Bro.’s TotalHD as well. Blu-Ray exclusive supporters Disney, Fox, and LGF rejected it.

What a Blu-Ray exclusive company rejects it? Now really is there any surprise there. Where this disc will benefit is for those companies that ship both formats can now do so on a single disc in a single package.

Quote:

"But Ross Rubin, an analyst at consumer research group NPD, which tracks retail sales of various items, said that the hybrid announcements simply prolong the inevitable demise of one format – a demise that must occur to move the industry forward

I agree I think such a thing may delay the demise into a single standard. At worst it may keep them both alive.