It appears Sony is now whining about Microsoft getting into Folding at Home.

Jack Tretton of SCEA qiote
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Would they be even having this conversation if we weren't doing it? I don't know. I would guess that the medical community would take help from anywhere they could get it, but the commentary that I heard is that Stanford isn't sure that [the Xbox 360's processing abilities] would help them very much, which is odd to me because if it helped at all, it seems like they would welcome it with open arms. It's really ugly territory to get into, but let's take fighting a disease and see if we can get some credit for that. It's not a cool game to play one way or the other, so I don't want to even give the impression that that's our motivation, and I'd be very disappointed if they're looking for PR value or to try to suck off some of the goodwill that we're doing.

Come on it's for a idealistic good cause. If Microsoft wants to do some F@H on the 360 then let them instead of being afraid they'll suck off some of your PR. I bet he's afraid w/ the larger number of 360s on the streets the 360 teamed together will squash the PS3.

@BrianK

I'd love to see the 360 doing folding@home, but I very much doubt it'd happen. Can you imagine how many 360's will fail due to constant system load. I say bring it on, because failed 360's due to F@H would be the best PR.

Last edited by KrasH on 21-May-2007 at 10:16 PM.

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@KrasH

It was a marketing move by Sony to begin with then they are going to critisize MS for it despite the fact that it's a win-win for the medical community, not that we'll benefit any from it.

But having the 2 systems go head to head would be nice. Is Sony afraid of that?

Anyway,
Harry Potter on the Wii is looking quite NEXT-GEN!
http://nintendo-revolution.blogspot.com/

@KrasH

Good news for the Blu-Ray camp, regarding European sales boost:

"Industry data for the period from 1 January until the end of April shows a change in market dynamics in the European HD software market.

Up until the PS3’s launch on 23 March, HD DVD was comfortably outselling Blu-ray discs. However, in the week after PS3 was launched in Europe, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales.

In the period since 23 March, Blu-ray discs have consistently out sold HD DVD's rival product by a significant margin.

In the latest week that the figures report, Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVDs by a factor of more than three to one.

This means that despite the PS3 being available for only one month of this four-month period, Blu-ray software sales account for over 64% of the total volume since the start of the year. "

PlayStation 3 gives Blu-ray disc sales a boost

A couple of weeks ago the PS3 launched in India, hopefully this will kickstart Blu-Ray Bollywood movie productions.

@KrasH

I agree, the Folding project can use the additional help, but it seems unlikely.

I've read about a PS3 failing after folding for over 6 weeks straight, 24/7 (-other uses, like playing games). Not recommended, give the PS3 a break every now and then.

BTW, I contributed a score of 5831 to the AmigaWorld.net folding team. I didn't know more AmigaWorld.net members were folding.

I don't think it's a good idea to leave your XBox 360 on for the night, I think this may have resulted in my sister's XBox 360 dying, that or the firmware update. I left the console running for the night to download many GBs of demos.

well I was right about the beta-testing...

Korea gets VOD first!
80GB PS3 to Usher in Sony's VOD Initiative

ps,
It seems somebody else agrees with me about Deus Ex
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5701&Itemid=53

Last edited by Lou on 22-May-2007 at 12:31 PM.

@MikeB

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However, in the week after PS3 was launched in Europe, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales.

Did the european PS3 come with the coupon for the free Blu-Ray disc? If so the 'sales' were likely give aways.

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PlayStation 3 gives Blu-ray disc sales a boost

Well it sure isn't giving game sales a boost.

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I don't think it's a good idea to leave your XBox 360 on for the night, I think this may have resulted in my sister's XBox 360 dying, that or the firmware update. I left the console running for the night to download many GBs of demos.

Alas the vast majority of 360 owners are not having these problems. Even by the worst, and not realistic, numbers of anti-360 activists I've seen this means at least 80% of the 360s on the market are fine. Again I'm one and I know others with launch 360s who have had firmware updates and left them download things over the night, in my case a few HD movies are a good example, and NOT had the problems you wish we would. Now I'm not saying people haven't had issues but definitely not to the levels you wish to suggest. Sorry your sister's 360 broke, there's a 2 year warranty in Europe so with current reports of 2-3 weeks repair it should be back fairly soon. It's summer perhaps she could go play some cricket in the sun.

@BrianK

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Did the european PS3 come with the coupon for the free Blu-Ray disc? If so the 'sales' were likely give aways.

Don't think so, here in the Netherlands Sony is going to send those Casino Royale discs directly to consumers. I talked to some dealers, they said they are dropping HD-DVD selling off remaining stock and expanding their Blu-Ray section.

Some movies were given away to those who pre-ordered, but that wouldn't account for the continued Blu-Ray sales boost.

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at least 80% of the 360s on the market are fine

I think the problems are more common and it's just 1 and a half years the XBox 360 has been on the market.

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NOT had the problems you wish we would.

Childish, of course I don't wish anyone harm. That's why I personally wouldn't recommend using the XBox 360 for more than a couple of hours a day.

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there's a 2 year warranty in Europe

One year warranty.

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It's summer perhaps she could go play some cricket in the sun.

Cricket or Baseball aren't really popular here in the Netherlands. You don't hace to worry about my sister, why else would she give me her XBox 360 for a couple of months?

Last edited by MikeB on 22-May-2007 at 02:55 PM.

@MikeB

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Don't think so, here in the Netherlands Sony is going to send those Casino Royale discs directly to consumers

Thanks interesting then. Definitely more players w/ the PS3 make sense that BR will pick up. But, I don't know as a dealer who sells 99% DVDs and 1% BR/HD and the titles for either BR or HD pale in comparision it's really not much shelf space commited for either. If dealers only carried good sellers they'd carry neither BR nor HD.

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I think the problems are more common

This is where I dervied the 'you wish' statement from. As I said the anti-360 crowd's numbers are about 20% of units impacted by an outage. One of the problems identified was motherboard warping and CPU pulling away. Newer 360s have fixes to prevent this from happening.

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One year warranty.

Really? I thought in Europe via the EU that 2 years was minimum?

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why else would she give me her XBox 360 for a couple of months?

Ahh now we know the real reason it broke.

@BrianK

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As I said the anti-360 crowd's numbers are about 20% of units impacted by an outage.

It has nothing to do with being anti-360 or not, browse through this 3000+ posting thread for example and you will notice people of all colors sharing their XBox 360 breakdown stories, XBox 360 of all models and ages. Many of them are on their 3rd console or even beyond. A large part of the postings are from well known forum regulars, quite a few of them seem to be vivid XBox 360 fans.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148060

After you finished reading, I would be amazed if your perspective didn't change at all.

Last edited by MikeB on 22-May-2007 at 06:18 PM.

@MikeB

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After you finished reading, I would be amazed if your perspective didn't change at all.

Maybe this explains it to you better... The Anti-360 crowd pegs the failure rate of the 360 around 20%. Microsoft pegs the failure rate of the 360 around 5%. Though lately Microsoft has simply not commented. Realistically it's probably somewhere in between. I took what I see as the worst classification out there. With the over a dozen people I know all with 360s, bought from different stores, and at different times only 1 has had to return theirs. Yes but a small sample set. Saying 20% failures is indeed a decent sized minority but a minority none the less. Something the majority of 360 users do not have to worry about is downloading over the night.

EDIT: Ooh and don't forget the latest update allows you to 'shutdown' your 360 but set that if you're downloading it continues to download and once completed will then shutdown. A nice power saving feature.

Last edited by BrianK on 22-May-2007 at 06:43 PM.

@BrianK

Games Digest editor today wrote:

"Still, 61% is a pretty big figure and probably one much closer to the truth than Microsoft’s earlier claims. A brief survey of my friends seems to conform to these new findings, with roughly half having either faulty hardware (such as sticky disc trays) or full blown red rings of death. I am now on to my second console and the first wasn’t even a launch unit. Clearly Microsoft still has some serious kinks to iron out in the manufacturing process. It will be interesting to find out how PS3 failure rates compare."

I think it's very unlikely all these people are just making up stories, I think XBox 360 issues are pretty common, which is worrying at the point considering the avalance of problems occurred in a relatively short timespan of XBox 360 availability. IMO this seem to point towards a rushed not too well thought-out design.

@BrianK

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EDIT: Ooh and don't forget the latest update allows you to 'shutdown' your 360 but set that if you're downloading it continues to download and once completed will then shutdown. A nice power saving feature.

Certainly a feature beneficial to Microsoft considering they extended their warranties.

@MikeB

The brief survey of my friends does not confirm those findings. Can you think of any reason why his brief survey would be valid and mine not? Also since we were talking about damage by leaving it on too long, this would indicate over heating, you can't count a faulty disc tray in your majority claim.

@BrianK

I did not claim XBox 360 hardware problems to be a majority (neither do I claim this to be a minority).

Those people posting at NeoGAF are mostly hardcore gamers, so they may experience more problems than the average user. I have read old postings by NeoGAF users within which they vividly defended the XBox 360 in reply to failure reports and later talked about running into problems themselves. You can read many postings within that thread talking about the issues they had and the amount of people they know who also experienced problems.

Maybe a reason why I ran into problems was that I stressed the console too much, downloading and playing all the content that was available in a relative short period of time. But at the time I was unaware of overheating issues.

@MikeB

I think it is obvious the Xbox 360 did have a design vulnerability (related to heat) with the X clamp design and that has remained for a while - let's see if those latest changes make this go away. Crafty hands can likely fix the problem themselves since it is a mechanical problem (many tutorials on the net), the average joe obviously can not.

How wide-spread is the issue? Hard to tell. Again, the two Xbox 360's (launch day) I know of still run perfectly. I don't personally know anyone who has broken theirs. Neither do I know anyone who has broken a PS3 - I do know some people who have broken PS2s though, but since it has been out far longer that is not comparable.

If a hardcore gamer knows people who have also broken their Xbox 360s, it is likely these other people are hardcore gamers too. This is the blessing and curse of "troubleshooting" sites and threads on the Internet. They gather people around a problem that have that problem (less so those that do not have the problem), thus making it hard to know how widespread the issue really is, because those without the problem aren't as often there to report their findings.

OTOH, the gathering of people with that problem helps to produce results, like information to avoid the issue, fix it yourself tutorials, pressure for extended warranties or whatever... That is good. And I do think we need to keep people accountable, be that Microsoft or Amiga or whomever.

Clearly the Xbox 360 has had issues with heat. It is proper Microsoft has extended warranties and is also dealing with this in other ways. They need to get it fixed for good, I hope the latest changes go towards that. The PS2 had (has?) issues with the laser, that was a comparably large-scale issue I guess. So far I don't think the PS3 has been reported with a similar issue, kudos for those guys if it remains free of similar type fault!

@MikeB

You're right you didn't directly claim a majority. But with your statement
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I don't think it's a good idea to leave your XBox 360 on for the night, I think this may have resulted in my sister's XBox 360 dying,

This recommendation is only applicable if this was a problem that was going to occur. Having left my launch console on over night for many nights I can say that I haven't experienced the problem you're warning against. People need not heed your warning. And afterall this is a consumer good it's meant to be used. If one spends $500 to let it sit off they can just send me a check instead.

@jtsiren
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It is proper Microsoft has extended warranties and is also dealing with this in other ways. They need to get it fixed for good, I hope the latest changes go towards that. The PS2 had (has?) issues with the laser, that was a comparably large-scale issue I guess.

Undoubtably a minority of the 360s have experienced a heat problem. The 1337 version has the chips glued to the motherboard, in theory to help prevent seperation. The 65nm version should be cooler. We'll have to see if it's cool enough to prevent the problem. As for the PS2 there has been many different issues on the different releases of the system. I think Wikipedia has a decent run down if one is interested.

Last edited by BrianK on 23-May-2007 at 12:14 AM.

@BrianK

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BrianK wrote: @jiyong Quote: BrianK has been arguing that the speed of Folding because of the SPU's are unrelated to gaming calculations, like AI. Now what is it going to be? What I'm going to assume is you were trying, and failing greatly, at humor instead of a misstatement. No where did anything I write say Quote: SPU's are unrelated to gaming calculations . For calculations, both folding equations and data along with gaming equations and data, are done on the SPU. DUH!

Well Brian, at least you are honest enough to clearly show you are quoting me out of context.
First you quote the complete sentence. Right after that you take out a little part and sure, it has a different meaning.

Now I'll stick to the complete sentence.

Some quotes from you:

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Why wouldn't there be a relationship between Folding benchmarks and gaming performance? Think about the needs and complexity of a game versus the single purpose of Folding and how it'd be, at best, a small subset of what a games needs would be. For example no collision detection is needed so an SPE that might be reserved for collision dection can now be used for Folding. For example no AI is needed so those SPEs can now be used for Folding. Also the maths for collision detection and AI are different formulas. So comparing Folding #'s will have a very small relationship to game performance.

Yes, it is clear you haven't said SPU's can't be used for AI, but the complete text is used to prove why you think there is no relationship between Folding and gaming performance. We all know the PS3 is so fast with Folding because of the SPU's. Meaning the performance of the SPU's has no relationship to gaming calculations and that includes AI.

I asked you:
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Why are you so sure the calculations in Folding are so fundamentally different than the calculations in a game?

You reply:
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Folding formulas at best would be a subset of the type of formulas used within a videogame.

OK, so unrelated isn't what you said exactly, but it's pretty close to "very small relationship" and you were trying to prove there was no relationship between Folding benchmarks and gaming performance.

Now what should we learn from those lines? The PS3 is so fast with Folding because no other tasks are hogging the SPU's? But why do you end that paragraph with the remark there is a very small relationship between Folding performance and gaming performance? I would say you have been trying to tell us the SPU's are not efficient in gaming calculations. Why else end with that line?

And since we are walking down memory lane, here is where you put words into my mouth:
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Look your statement was that Microsoft didn't want Folding@Home on their systems

I never said that. I only said Billy Boy hadn't bought into Folding and asked why they didn't support it. I never claimed they took any action against Folding on their systems and it also can't be implied from my posts. And actually I was puzzled when you started to counter my claim by telling me they never blocked it. I think you never took the time to properly read my post, as you were too busy to annoy me and trying to let me have a taste at what you thought was my poor argument method.

@BrianK

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BrianK wrote: @MikeB You're right you didn't directly claim a majority. But with your statement Quote: I don't think it's a good idea to leave your XBox 360 on for the night, I think this may have resulted in my sister's XBox 360 dying, This recommendation is only applicable if this was a problem that was going to occur. Having left my launch console on over night for many nights I can say that I haven't experienced the problem you're warning against. People need not heed your warning. And afterall this is a consumer good it's meant to be used. If one spends $500 to let it sit off they can just send me a check instead.

Sorry to interfere, but you really are losing it Brian. When people give you a piece of advice, it doesn't mean that bad things will happen immediately when you don't give a fly about that advice.

I guess that would mean I would be dead so many times, it would be beyond the three digit numbers. I'm sure Lou will love to read that.

And there is really a big difference between not using it and leaving it on overnight.

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As for the PS2 there has been many different issues on the different releases of the system. I think Wikipedia has a decent run down if one is interested.

I could find a rundown for PS1 on Wikipedia, not for PS2. Only a table for price history.