@MikeB
Some cut & paste from wikipedia:
Quote:

This series of machines had a reputation for CD drive problems - the optical pickup sled was made of thermoplastic, and eventually developed wear spots that moved the laser into a position where it was no longer parallel with the CD surface - a modification was made that replaced the sled with a die-cast one with hard nylon inserts, which corrected the problem.

And the ps2:
Quote:

Disc Read Error Owners of early PS2 models purchased from launch until spring 2002 commonly reported faulty optical drives in their consoles. The earliest drives suffered from a constantly misaligning laser lens but later defects were the result of a shift in voltage to the laser itself. The first problem was relatively easy to remedy, but it required opening the machine's casing and tweaking a cog that controlled the lens' distance from the discs it was supposed to read, thus voiding the warranty. This usually did not matter, as in most cases the warranty already had expired by the time such problems began to appear. The second fix involved the use of an oscillator. As time went on, more and more drives began breaking down and a class action lawsuit was filed against Sony. They had the option of either paying the requested fines in damages, or offering free repair and replacements at their discretion.[11] Sony chose the latter and, until February 2005, they honored their agreement. In the UK owners suffering from this flaw must pay Sony £50 (as of spring 2005) to get their machines repaired. A second lawsuit is being filed against Sony for all of the above, plus claims that defective hardware is damaging media discs. The first hearings were set to commence in April and May, 2005.[12] As of 2006, Sony is offering exchanges of factory-refurbished consoles for broken out-of-warranty consoles for a charge of US $45. Another issue causing DRE's is wear on the part coupling the head assembly to the worm gear that moves the laser. This issue is mostly found in the older PS2. A symptom of this is a loud repetitive clicking sound. The part is commonly plastic and prone to wear or break. Metal replacements are available from third parties.

Sounds pretty serious to me..

@Tomas

Quote:

There are always exceptions, just like there is with the first models of xbox 360, ps2 and so on..

I agree with you. I thought my personal experiences would be interesting. Or at least more interesting then the heresay that's being posted here.

Also thanks for posting the info from the Wikipedia. PS2s definitely have had their issues too. Though I find it a more then a bit fanboyish to have somone research and quote heresay on the 360 and refuse to look at he possiblity of other consoles with issues, I hope they don't skip your posting.

@Tomas

Yes, that's too bad for those effected by this, I think at least until the N64 Nintendo offered the most reliable consoles due to less moving parts involved. But the PS3 is a new device which IMO should be judged on its own merits and may well be better designed at least they spend billions more on the console than was spend on the XBox 360, the PS3 seems for more sturdy to me than the XBox 360. The PS3 and XBox 360 are here and now, from all that I gathered I think the XBox 360 may well be the least reliable console ever released!

In response to a personal blog written by a user (Duke), (noticed discs being scratched shortly after purshase last month):

Matt: "I got the 3 red lights a few weeks ago and called up M$. The woman in india asked me to turn on my console and no lights appeared, she said it was fixed and refused to let me send it off for repairs."

Steve:"Luke, i’ve returned TWO Xbox 360’s because of the disc/lens. A ‘few’ of my games have been damaged too, but Microsoft wouldn’t take responsibiity with those; which is HIGHLY annoying. Both times the problem got progressively worse, with games showing ‘Dirty Disc’ errors and getting to a point where you’d hear the drive stop spinning, when it clearly SHOULD be, causing the game to crash. Sounds very reminiscent of the problems you’re having…

So after all this, you can’t even play GRAW2 now? Wow, that really does suck mate."

Another website:

Original request: "Need your help PTIers. My son’s XBox 360 freezes all of the time after about an hour of playing. "

Responses:

- "my son his Xbox 360 freezes as well. He said this happens after about 2 hours of play. His fix is to just turn it off for a while. Absolutely unacceptable ! !"

- "The first time it was a freezing problem, the second time the cd/dvd drive was about to go out. Every time I put a disk in it would make funny noises.

We’re pretty strict on our kids about the xbox. if it goes overboard.. it’s immediately unplugged and put up. It’s the only way I can assure they’re not playing it when I’m not home."

- "my xbox developed this problem about 5 months after i bought it, sent it in 3 weeks ago still waiting, i called them and they said they have fixed it and are sending it back, it was a “hardware problem”. what is that supposed to mean? i asked. the assistant didnt know. obviously its a “hardware problem” i could’ve told them that from the get go. very disappointed as i do like the xbox very much and do not want to end up buying a ps3."

XBox 360 Problems - Microsoft Responds

Quote:

Problems with the Xbox 360? What problems?" This was the gist of Microsoft’s response to a reprimand issued by Britain’s consumer affairs show Watchdog, accusing the company of making faulty Xbox 360 consoles. Microsoft retorted and expressed mild, corporately-controlled outrage at the accusations, which, unfortunately, happen to be true. Microsoft responded to the reprimand as follows: “Customer satisfaction is our highest priority, and we do everything we can to take care of gamers who may be having problems with their consoles. Anybody having an issue with their Xbox 360 console should call customer service immediately so that we can help. Microsoft voluntarily provides customers with a one-year manufacturer’s warranty in the UK which operates over and above the legally required retailer warranty for all consumer goods." The company followed up the response by admitting some ’isolated’ incidents regarding the Xbox 360, adding that it’s, "vital to note" that there are no systemic issue with the Xbox 360 and that each case is being handled on a case-by-case basis. A perfectly PR answer to a perfect little PR nightmare. Here’s the thing though — the problems with the Xbox are as far away from isolated as being naked in downtown Manhattan. The Internet has been ablaze for a while now with complaints over the ring of death problem, and while the Internet is a hotbed for complaints, we personally at Devlib have not only bought an Xbox 360 that broke after three days, but also know a few people personally who had their system die within six months. This isn’t an isolated problem — this is a problem — italics and all. This is something Microsoft needs to come out and address, the system overheats, is unreliable — hell, we’re terrified to switch our replacement from horizontal to vertical in case it breaks. We’re afraid to patch it as the last patch left an alarming amount of destroy Xbox’s in its path. The best thing Microsoft has done was to extend everyone’s warranty to a full year — the next best thing they can do is come out and say it. Say — they messed up, and this is how they’ll fix it. Don’t make us, the consumers, look like idiots — a high-tech system should not die in three days when our original Nintendo still works like a charm. Otherwise, the pastures look a whole lot greener with the Wii –controller-related destruction and all.

here

@MikeB

Do you have a vested interest in the ps3? Maybe you plan to sell them? Tell the truth now do you sell or are you planning to sell ps3 products? And yes it does make a difference in credability.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Trezzer Quote: Certainly better than the average PS2 game. As for Wii - the jury is still out on that one. OK, you're the expert on the XBox 360, so maybe the average XBox 360 game @ 480p is equal or worse than the average Wii game. BTW, I think God of War 2 for the PS2 looks graphically more impressive than any Wii game I have seen so far.

Every Wii game you've seen so far used the Gamecube graphics libraries with a couple of tweaks.

The dev kit has been updated twice since the first final devkits were released in September (with unfinished gx libraries)...

@BrianK

Quote:

I agree with you. I thought my personal experiences would be interesting. Or at least more interesting then the heresay that's being posted here.

Actually I am more interested in the PS3, I got side tracked by people like Trezzer claiming the XBox 360 is all that and the PS3 is a piece of crap. I was completely unaware of the extend of the XBox 360's problems until after doing some research. Of course reading about these issues within our countries largest newspaper also helped to peak my interest, considering at the time I was exaluating the console myself.

Microsoft severely dissapoints, most likely I will never recommend a Microsoft gaming console to anyone ever again.

@MikeB
Quote:

Yes, that's too bad for those effected by this, I think at least until the N64 Nintendo offered the most reliable consoles due to less moving parts involved. But the PS3 is a new device which IMO should be judged on its own merits and may well be better designed at least they spend billions more on the console than was spend on the XBox 360, the PS3 seems for more sturdy to me than the XBox 360.

It might very well be true that the PS3 is more reliable, but it has not been out long enough yet to be able to draw those conclusions.
I dont think we will know before in at least a year or two which one is more reliable.
Also spending more money on the blueray, does not mean that it will be more reliable. It would not surprise me that it would be the opposite, since the dvd format is a very mature and tested format while the blueray is entirely new and might be full of early adopter bugs that we do not yet know much about.

In what way does the ps3 seem more sturdy to you?

@stew

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Do you have a vested interest in the ps3? Maybe you plan to sell them? Tell the truth now do you sell or are you planning to sell ps3 products? And yes it does make a difference in credability.

Like I said before I plan to support the PS3, to what extend will be dependent on things like AmigaOS4 and/or other OSes being ported to the hardware or not. For your information I have been following especially the Cell for years, that and the 'Other OS' support generated my initial interests in the console.

@MikeB

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I got side tracked by people like Trezzer claiming the XBox 360 is all that and the PS3 is a piece of crap. I was completely unaware of the extend of the XBox 360's problems until after doing some research.

Excuse me? Quotes. Now.

Quote:

Microsoft severely dissapoints, most likely I will never recommend a Microsoft gaming console to anyone ever again.

Did you ever?

_________________

@MikeB
Quote:

Microsoft severely dissapoints, most likely I will never recommend a Microsoft gaming console to anyone ever again.

Then you should not have bought a ps3 after the psx and ps2 problems either.
But anyways.. all companies can have a bad batch from time to time..
The orginal xbox had very low failure rates from what i recall, but still the xbox 360 ended up having a rough launch when it came to the early models.

@MikeB

Quote:

I got side tracked by people like Trezzer claiming the XBox 360 is all that and the PS3 is a piece of crap.

If you can find a single quote that's not a sarcastic imitation of one of your previous posts, post it.

@Tomas

Quote:

Then you should not have bought a ps3 after the psx and ps2 problems either.

Of both the PSX and PS2 more than 100 million units have been sold, however it seem with less than 10 million units in customer hands I hear about much much more problems relating to the XBox 360 still this early in its lifecycle. The problems are diverse and numerous and Microsoft in most cases act non-compliant to address and to satisfy consumer worries.

If Microsoft keeps this up I don't think the XBox 360 will fare any better than the original XBox did. AFAIK Sony has done a lot more for their userbase, that's why their success with the PSX translated into great success with regard to the PS2 which is still doing amazingly well and that's why they are currently the global market leader with regard to home consoles.

The PS3 on the other hand seems to have the sturdiness I expect from their consumer electronics devision. With the PS3 it looks like they have set the quality standard very high with an eye on having the device play a central role with the living room, enhancing the prospects of HDTV, Blu-Ray movie and other electronics (mobile phones, PSPs, headsets, stereo equipment, etc) as well.

@MikeB
Quote:

Of both the PSX and PS2 more than 100 million units have been sold, however it seem with less than 10 million units in customer hands I hear about much much more problems relating to the XBox 360 still this early in its lifecycle. The problems are diverse and numerous and Microsoft in most cases act non-compliant to address and to satisfy consumer worries.

But like i already said, both the PSX and PS2 had similar reliability issues, which did not improve before some later models. Microsoft have/will most likely solve the problems in newer models as well.
You must have really been hiding under a rock if you have never heard of all the people who had problems with their first PSX and PS2 units of earlier models.

@MikeB

Quote:

however it seem with less than 10 million units in customer hands I hear about much much more problems relating to the XBox 360 still this early in its lifecycle.

Yet you admitted that you never really spent time investigating the matter and the Playstation and Playstation 2 issues are well known and widely documented. I'm one of the relatively lucky whose original Playstation still lives - then again it wasn't first-gen. The Playstation 2 wasn't either but still it died far too early.

Quote:

AFAIK Sony has done a lot more for their userbase

Such as not bothering with proper online play? By having very flaky first generation products? I suppose that's one way of "doing" things.

Quote:

The PS3 on the other hand seems to have the sturdiness I expect from their consumer electronics devision.

At this point "seems" is all we can talk about, because while there are reports of PS3 breakdowns on the net, there aren't enough to gather useful data. It seems that two things it can have issues with are overheating and the drive mechanism.

There are around 3 million PS3s out there. They haven't been out for very long. It'll be a long time till we have enough data to conclude whether it's solid launch hardware or not - when it comes to consoles it would be a first for Sony.

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @stew Quote: Do you have a vested interest in the ps3? Maybe you plan to sell them? Tell the truth now do you sell or are you planning to sell ps3 products? And yes it does make a difference in credability. Like I said before I plan to support the PS3, to what extend will be dependent on things like AmigaOS4 and/or other OSes being ported to the hardware or not.

"Support" = "sell" I presume? Not that you would ever be able to directly answer a question with a simple "yes" or "no". Didn't your "company" already cut a deal with Sony? Why would you do that for if it wasn't for selling Sony products? Or do they also hire fanboys for the forums?

@hatschi

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Or do they also hire fanboys for the forums?

I have a feeling it's payment by the piece in that case.

@hatschi

Quote:

"Support" = "sell" I presume? Not that you would ever be able to directly answer a question with a simple "yes" or "no". Didn't your "company" already cut a deal with Sony? Why would you do that for if it wasn't for selling Sony products? Or do they also hire fanboys for the forums?

From Sony's standpoint, they allow my company to distribute and sell PS3s as Amigas (meaning for instance putting an Amiga logo on there), Sony so far has been very supportive towards such ideas. Anything is this regard is also dependent on 3rd parties and the Amiga community as well, but first it's ACube's turn.

Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 08:08 PM.

@MikeB

So... any luck with those quotes yet?

@MikeB

Quote:

The PS3 and XBox 360 are here and now, from all that I gathered I think the XBox 360 may well be the least reliable console ever released!

With all due respect MikeB, you've admitted not having very extensive experience on consoles past. Making such a conclusion seems a bit bold and frankly biased on your part. But do enjoy slamming Xbox 360 and making sure any last bit of credibility you have goes out the door.

I can't even begin to (well, more like I choose not to this time) describe the difference in the ways in which you treat PS3 and Xbox 360 in your postings. It is far from balanced reporting, apparenly you don't even try to keep such a facade anymore.

@Trezzer

You know full well you have highlighted almost anything negative you could find with regard to the PS3. I am not gonna dig through all those threads with thousands of messages for something which is obvious to many following PS3 threads. I was just trying to point out your general approach.


Some myth you spread, which is funny as you have no actual hands-on experience:

- PS3 sucks up to many Watts compared to the XBox 360 (usually 20 Watts difference during ordinary usage (24/7 per year relates 80-420 Euro Max, with 2 hours a day that's divided by 12 compared to watching just TV, and you have to divide this by 9 to get the difference between XBox 360 and PS3).

- Problems with overheating albeit possible, this seems actually more the case with regard to the XBox 360 with terminal results.

- 1080p PS3 will be weak as the PS3 is not capable enough. Phase5, Ninja Theory disagree and have in-depth knowledge in this regard. They and others are producing some major blockbusters in 1080p.

- The motion sensing found with the PS3 is useless.

- Claims of lots of people having problems with their PS3, actually overall users like their purchase and aren't experiencing major problems.

- Claims of bad backward compatibility, actually all PS3 offer by far more extensive backwards compatibility than the XBox 360 does.

- HDMI not offering advantages at all, alledged major handshake issues, but you don't criticize the XBox 360 Elite despite it only comes with HDMI 1.2 and will include handshakes as well.

There are many other example, maybe I will create a myths FAQ regarding the PS3 later on in which I quote your and other people's myths and address them in-depth.

In short if you put everything in perspective Sony and the PS3 are inferior any regard to Microsoft and the XBox 360.