@Trezzer

Quote:

"But most of what we've talked about is in the PSP games. So what do you get for buying it on your £425 super console? Nicer graphics is the first thing, of course. Although, we must say that it may look the same as RR6 on 360, but our side-by-side comparisons revealed slightly inferior lighting effects. Rave City in particular looks so much better lit on the 360 game. Strange.

Overall the old tracks are well improved, on a large 1080p TV this is better noticeable than on a smaller display. The 6 new tracks are of much higher quality though, nomatter what TV you are using this should be apparent to anyone not having both versions side by side.

RR6 track:
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20051007/rr28.jpg

Same RR7 track:
http://static.flickr.com/112/294514299_5a12f79a51_b.jpg

@Trezzer

Quote:

Maybe they should have upgraded the GPU

All the details on the RSX aren't even public yet you suggest an upgrade you don't know the details of, just have a look at Motorstorm and you will see that the RSX goes rather well hand in hand with the Cell processor.

Later this year we can have a little talk on Heavenly Sword, Lair and hopefully Killzone will settle your worries once and for all.

@MikeB

Quote:

just have a look at Motorstorm and you will see that the RSX goes rather well hand in hand with the Cell processor.

If the GPU had been more powerful the game could have had anti-aliasing and better physics (yeah, they are better than in many games, but still very unrealistic).

Either way: A more powerful GPU wouldn't hurt I'm sure you'll agree.

@MikeB

The two track shots are 1. from different parts of the track 2. in different resolutions and 3. most likely from different conditions. Quite useless as an example.

And I happen to trust C&VG more anyway.

Last edited by Trezzer on 22-Mar-2007 at 02:01 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Maybe your expectations were unrealistic, far more so than mine. I don't think people should get angry that my predictions and expectations are closer to reality than their's.

First of all, I'm not angry if you are referring to me. I think that Sony having to eat some humble pie will benefit the market. They have been too arrogant. It will also make Sony try harder and the competition that ensues will make me a happier gamer. PS3 will not go away, it will get better and as a result Xbox 360 side has to get better and better too. Monopolies rarely result in better products - even Microsoft's computer side has to try harder because of Apple these days.

I also don't think I'm discussing only my expectations. I think I'm discussing what is reflected in the public commentary, analyst opinion and so forth. You say you had different expectations, that is fine and acknowledged. I could dig up a lot of links discussing how PS3 is not selling as expected, but you'd probably dismiss them as "propaganda".

We'll see if that six million PS3's sold/shipped by end of March will happen as Sony projected.

Quote:

We have a saying in Dutch which goes like: The tallest trees catch the most wind.

Oh, sure. It is hard to be the winning candidate and clearly PlayStation as a brand started this race as a winning candidate due to past market performance and also marketing message that proclaimed superiority far more than others. It would be easier to dismiss all the "propaganda" though, if the machine actually was selling better.

Quote:

Quote: inability to keep the buzz going Huh? The European and global launch is highly anticipated and I'll predict is going to beat the XBox 360 launch.

I was referring to the already selling markets, not Europe. Of course initial launch of a major product like this will always generate buzz. Even Dreamcast had buzz, look how well that turned out. I too expect PS3 to sell more than Xbox 360 on launch in Europe, because the latter had serious, serious shortages. It will be easy to beat and a failure to do so would be a huge surprise. But what about the coming months, that will be interesting.

Quote:

Quote: Christmas, but the way its sales figures are shaping up for early this year is nothing to write home about Which other company was able to sell well over 2 million games consoles at this price point in only two major markets within a similar timeframe?

I guess that is partially the point - the price point. It may be great they are selling this many machines at this price point, but at the same time that price point is hurting their initial adoption and market share. I guess the lackluster selection of launch games contributed to this also in the U.S. and Japan, maybe the numbers could have been better with more content out there (and especially content that performed even better). Let's see how Europe does now that more games are out.

Quote:

Quote: Clearly PS3 did not launch quite as expected. Maybe it will in Europe? Maybe your expectations were unrealistic, far more so than mine. I don't think people should get angry that my predictions and expectations are closer to reality than their's.

You are dismissing quite a bit more than just my expectations there.

But I agree, this race is far from over. I'm not one of those people to make premature predictions. I'm just saying at the moment PS3 isn't really moving that big and also that the competition is a lot more fierce than it was during PS2 launch days, it will be far harder for PS3 to try and dominate this market. Maybe they'll cut the price soon, that might help.

@Trezzer

Quote:

If the GPU had been more powerful the game could have had anti-aliasing

Motorstorm doesn't have anti-aliasing? I thought we were through with jaggies after PS2...

@jtsiren

Quote:

Clearly PS3 did not launch quite as expected. Maybe it will in Europe?

Looks like there will be supply problem in Finland. According to Keskisuomalainen (22.3) Sony is shipping/shipped 10000 machines to 500 shops here in Finland. For example local Musta Pörssi is getting less than ten machines and most of them are already preordered.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Actually it seems shops are already selling PS3 here in Finland. There are ads they are selling PS3 @ 699e and machines are available now.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Trezzer

Quote:

The two track shots are 1. from different parts of the track 2. in different resolutions and 3. most likely from different conditions. Quite useless as an example. And I happen to trust C&VG more anyway.

Quotes from a XBox 360 owner (Japan launch), a source I trust very much:

"re :I gotta ask: You impressions of RR7 seemed far more glowing @TGS does 1080p off HDMI make that big of a difference?

"yes - 1080p makes a MASSIVE difference"

"Jonnyram metioned that i needed to checkout Crossbay Tunnel "NOW" so i knew that meant something was going on.

Holy ####. Some tracks really got reworked, some didn't... this one got REALLY REALLY worked

lots of new lighting (hard to tell, the red lights reflect on the damp floor and two white beam pulses of light run along the two black 'skirting lines' on each of the tunnel walls) and some new geometry.

Quite an eye opener, although this is all still cosmetic changes to the same track, it's interesting that some tracks seem more reworked than others, but hey... not complaining. The more changes the better! "

"tried ridge online
VERY smooth indeed.
quick and easy to set up.

The course was, again, a RR6 track but with some new touches (some water fountains)."

MikeB:And if you want to make him out as a blind PS3 fanboy, this is what he had to say about Gundam:

"English Text and Voice support in Gundam

Pics will come, but i'm on my way out VERY soon.

WORST presentation EVER
OH, and one of the worst games ever!
Jesus"

Last edited by MikeB on 22-Mar-2007 at 11:32 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 22-Mar-2007 at 10:24 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 22-Mar-2007 at 10:23 AM.

@MikeB


Quote:

Oblivion wasn't designed around the PS3's capabilities, nevertheless judging from videos the PS3 version looks like a fine port to me Yes, on a good PC Oblivion looks even better.

Google "Oblivion Optimized PS3".

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@Hammer

Quote:

Google "Oblivion Optimized PS3"

Come on we Amigans should know the differences between a game being designed around a platform or adding some enhancements. Oblivion wasn't designed around the PS3 (AFAIK the only PS3 specific optimizations relate to significantly improved loading times). For instance Ruff and Tumble, Lion Heart and Elfmania were designed around the good old Amiga 500.

Last edited by MikeB on 22-Mar-2007 at 11:45 AM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

Motorstorm doesn't have anti-aliasing? I thought we were through with jaggies after PS2...

Good to know Motorstorm is supposed to be a jagfest unlike any XBox 360 game, sure means a lot coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game...

Jagfest ahoy!
http://fp.scea.com///Content/Movies/15469/Images/14/image.jpg

Last edited by MikeB on 22-Mar-2007 at 11:31 AM.

@MikeB

Who said anything about jagfest? It has jaggies, that is all. In some shots it is clearer than others.

It could have looked better - that's all. There were many 360 launch games without AA too.

Luckily running games at 720p and 1080p will eliminate jaggies more or less for people for various reasons. In 1080i/p the resolution is so high that most jaggies will be gone by natural measures. In 720p it is not bad either and add some AA and we're rolling. In the case of many tvs their native resolution isn't actually 720p, but slightly larger, which means that images are scaled a tad by the tv, which in itself can remove jaggies.

@MikeB

Quote:

And if you want to make him out as a blind PS3 fanboy, this is what he had to say about Gundam

What he is saying is not unreasonable. He says that parts of the game have been reworked. That's only natural given how much later it comes out. I can easily believe that parts of the game looks better. However, as C&VG points out, it's not a big difference and in some cases the 360's game even looks better. Lots and lots of people have said this, so I don't know why you get so riled up about it.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Lots and lots of people have said this, so I don't know why you get so riled up about it

IMO far too much propaganda though. At 1080p the differences are clearer than at 720p or 480p.

Regarding the PS3, XBox 360 fans have constantly highlighted very minor shortcomings in most games while neglecting the more significant improvements. IMO it's quite easy to tell, you will hear the fanboysraving on about any minor incident which occurs with the PS3 platform while shoving issues with their own platform under the carpet. IMO very similar behaviour can be seen with various people very much against the AmigaOS4 project, any minor OS4 related incident was highlighted in the past by such individuals. At least you as a reviewer should try to stand above this all.

Regarding RR7 at CeBit the XBox 360 user I was with fully acknowledged that indeed RR7 on the PS3 is an improvement graphically over the XBox 360 version. I am against the kind of consumer deception we have seen at AmigaWorld, sure slam Madden as the game could easily have been graphically on par with the XBox 360 version. But regarding Ridge Racer 7 is this really needed? I believe the game mostly got attacked for being the first 1080p game and Microsoft claimed this couldn't be done, and later revised the statement to: We believe you couldn't have a performing game at 1080p.

Ridge Racer 7, like the series or not, is the best in the series and is a well performing game at a 1080p pixel resolution. The game looks better and is faster, personally I greatly prefer Motorstorm.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It could have looked better - that's all.

Point me towards a game which cannot possibly be made to look any better? Overall many XBox 360 games are a bit too dark for my taste for instance.

Last edited by MikeB on 22-Mar-2007 at 12:35 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Good to know Motorstorm is supposed to be a jagfest unlike any XBox 360 game, sure means a lot coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game...

Who said anything about jagfest? No need to get all defensive. Anyways, missing antialiasing will result in more/more distinct jaggies than with antialiasing, even on HD resolutions (especially with projector use and 720p). I can see jaggies in that Motorstorm image, and that from a sharp monitor, it will be worse on a larger screen.

This is something where the old Xbox excelled over PS2, I just wondered about it out loud. Antialiasing is good. We need more of it on all consoles.

@MikeB

Quote:

I believe the game mostly got attacked for being the first 1080p game and Microsoft claimed this couldn't be done, and later revised the statement to: We believe you couldn't have a performing game at 1080p.

Please stop this. You have been corrected many times on this. One person at Microsoft said so and was corrected later on, the company line has been more along the lines of 720p is the sweet-spot of HD gaming on current generation. Not untrue of many PS3 games either...

Whether or not 1080p will end-up being more of a sweet-spot (on either console) remains to be seen. I for one look forward to more 1080p games.

Edit: Actually I think 1080p may become such marketing phrase that more 1080p games will come out simply because people expect it. Hopefully this will not mean less effects... there is the struggle between pixel resolution and content resolution (like amount of polygons, effects, texture detail...). Pixel resolution lessens jaggies, but doesn't automatically mean improved graphics, it might mean lesser graphics than at 720p where performance allows for more to happen on screen.

Last edited by jtsiren on 22-Mar-2007 at 01:35 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Regarding the PS3, XBox 360 fans have constantly highlighted very minor shortcomings in most games while neglecting the more significant improvements. IMO it's quite easy to tell, you will hear the fanboysraving on about any minor incident which occurs with the PS3 platform while shoving issues with their own platform under the carpet. IMO very similar behaviour can be seen with various people very much against the AmigaOS4 project, any minor OS4 related incident was highlighted in the past by such individuals. At least you as a reviewer should try to stand above this all.

Coming from a person who criticized Xbox 360 for not having as easy off button on controller as PS3... and even then you were mistaken. Come on. No need to get all high ground and stuff. All sides have their fanboys, we all make mistakes, we all take our debates too far at times and we all let our emotions get the best of us sometimes. I think this discussion here is more about facts than many discussion, I don't think such criticism is necessary here.

To imply that only happens with Xbox 360 fanboys or people against OS4 is silly. PS3 has its fanboys too like everything. Unless PS3 is not worthy of fandom?

@jtsiren

Quote:

as easy off button on controller as PS3

LOL, that was the best you could find in *all* my postings?

At least I acknowledged I was at fault here and thanked for the correction. Actually I asked people to correct me on any misconceptions regarding both platforms. For a long time I didn't have that much extensive experience with the XBox 360, you could compliment me on actually investigating the device to greater depths before really joining in on the whole XBox 360 vs PS3 debate.