@Dandy
Quote:

Quote: Arko wrote: And even if 500 AOS4 Fans wanted AOS4 for the power station. there is only one way to convince Hyperion: "Pay the port" Except if Hyperion are clever (as always) and come to this conclusion on their own...

No that would nat be clever.

clever means:

- Get a dealer ( like Eytech has been ) pay the port
- Open a Bounty and let the future customers pay the port.

Last edited by Arko on 04-Nov-2009 at 02:46 PM.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Dandy I don't think that what you heard about porting to other PPC processors applies to weird 64-Bit CPUs designs as well.

Well, Fixstars say its "for native 32- and 64-bit processing".
So I would not expect too many hassle to port AOS to it and use it in 32 Bit mode and just for one core initially.

Quote:

DAX wrote: I would add that Fixstars might be "tested" as you say, but not on Aos4 and some of the problems Olsen mentioned had to do with the weird motherboard architecture (south bridge/north bridge) and totally unsupported on board controllers for which "from scratch" drivers would have to be written.

O.K. - this might be a point.
But don`t forget that Linux is open source - and so it should not be too hard for experienced coders to find the relevant driver code sections in the source code, adapt them for AOS4.x and implement them.

I have some nice programs that have been ported to the Amiga from Linux...

Quote:

DAX wrote: Titans however are not 5 years away,

Do you have the date of release at hand?

Quote:

DAX wrote: the dual core evaluation boards are shipping since last month,

And the final PowerStations are shipping since july last year...

Quote:

DAX wrote: and those in charge probably already have some in hand.

Or they got themselves a PowerStation. Pure speculation so far on both sides...

Quote:

DAX wrote: They generally use the usual set of AMCC components (Sata, USB2.0 controllers and more) for which Hyperion already did a monstrous job to support (and in fact the forthcoming 4.1.1 will be the first fully featured OS4 for SAM) and they would not have to start from scratch (unlike Fixstars that has totally alien motherboard and CPU for which full support could take as much as Sam).

Port !=(not equal) final version
That`s why I vote for initial 32 Bit support of just one core.
Multi core support and 64 Bit capability (or full support) can be added after the initial port with later OS versions.
I doubt they would have to touch the OS itself initially - I believe a new HAL would be sufficiant.
Regarding the HW drivers see above..

Quote:

DAX wrote: If my first assumption on 64-Bit CPUs holds true, than it would be monstrously easy to use AMCC hw, and very difficult to support Fixstars.

As I said above - I would try to identify the relevant parts in the YDL source code, port it to AOS4.x and implement it. Shoud be faster than trying to code from the scratch...

Quote:

DAX wrote: Not exactly a sparrow and pigeon situation there...(in that case).

Still not sure about that...
(You know saying: Hope is the last to die...)

Last edited by Dandy on 06-Nov-2009 at 11:45 AM.

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Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Arko

Quote:

Arko wrote: @Dandy ... - Get a dealer ( like Eytech has been ) pay the port - Open a Bounty and let the future customers pay the port.

Yeah - that`s exactly how everyday business workes...

B.T.W. - I didn`t know up to now that OS4.x development is based on/accepts bounties...

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Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy
Well as a matter of fact we don't know what HW Hyperion might be targeting, it could very well be Fixstars. (they excluded x86 and old Mac HW, they never excluded Powerstations at least here on AW).

We certainly both desire new HW to be released ASAP and we can't refrain to speculate about it, it would seem

And again it all boils down to the famous MAP. Will it be a set of next generation features (that will need NG HW to be exploited)? I must admit I'm pulling my hairs out of curiosity...

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@DAX

Quote:

Well as a matter of fact we don't know what HW Hyperion might be targeting, it could very well be Fixstars.

I've no idea what hardware Hyperion are targeting , but I think we'll find out soon and it won't be the Powerstation.

Last edited by Rob on 04-Nov-2009 at 03:26 PM.

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Dandy Well as a matter of fact we don't know what HW Hyperion might be targeting, it could very well be Fixstars. (they excluded x86 and old Mac HW, they never excluded Powerstations at least here on AW). We certainly both desire new HW to be released ASAP and we can't refrain to speculate about it, it would seem And again it all boils down to the famous MAP. Will it be a set of next generation features (that will need NG HW to be exploited)? I must admit I'm pulling my hairs out of curiosity...

Fully agreed, mate.
Same here at my end (hairpulling)...

(Hehe - reminds me of "Tractor pulling": Dragon Fire with a 42 cyl. radial engine)

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy
What the heck is that?? Never saw that kind of race

@Rob
I hope you're right on the "soon" part

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@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: How limited is the supply? I don't know but since it's not being produced anymore and can't be at that price it must e limited supply. Let's just say supply is more limited than Macmini, which is more or less available all over the world and more suited for Amiga desktop use. I know the mac port of AmigaOS won't happen but I still find that to be more sane hardware to target.

Our community appears to be very small though and Hyperion has discounted Mac Mini as an option. Also some said they do want a more powerful machine than SAM and want a better price to performance ratio than Acube can currently provide. We've debunked the $2250 theory that several people decided to adopt as likely fact. To me that machine certainly seems to be the better value at $1250 plus $45 shipping and handling to the continental U.S. Unless there are less than say 300 new units available it may be worth a port IMO.

So to me the key question is, how many new units are in existence in Fixstars stock. If Hyperion did talk to Fixstars perhaps the issue was that they felt not enough machines are left?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Nov-2009 at 03:43 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Nov-2009 at 03:41 PM.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Dandy What the heck is that?? Never saw that kind of race ...

I somehow knew you`d like it...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

Quote:

but I think we'll find out soon and it won't be the Powerstation

Re-reading this sentence makes me think: do you know something we don't Rob?

By the way, did a Hyperion representative ever mentioned Arm? Is there some sort of unofficial take on this line of CPUs? (they said no x86 and no discontinued Macs, but I don't seem to recall their stance on ARM processors)

Some seem to love them, but do we really need another underpowered HW just because it is cheaper and has low power consumption?

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@Dandy

Quote:

Ahhhh - you don`t know! In this case it might be a better idea to word it in a question like `Is it still being produced?` instead of implying it is no longer in production.

I concluded (from reading other sites) that it was no longer build. But I might be wrong ?
You have been talking about this machine for a long time so I guess you did your homework and can tell me.
Quote:

And why do you think a PPC Mac is better suited for Amiga desktop use than a PowerStation?

- Doesn't use as much power.
- It's silent
- It's single core
- it's 32 bit
- It can fit on my desk
- It is an easier target (I THINK!) to port to.
Quote:

Mate, I don`t mind that your computing needs differ from mine. I don`t mind you to ask Hyoerion to support your MacMinis like I asked them to support the PowerStation. But please don`t mind me having the need for an Amiga PowerStation.

I don't know your computing needs but please tell me what a Powerstation can do with AmigaOS4.1 that couldn't be done with a Mac mini G4 1.5Mhz?
I know already that Hyperion won't support Mac mini's so no need to ask them.

As I wrote earlier the Powerstation has a good price and also some very nice specs. Personally I just think it's overkill for AmigaOS at the moment when you take into consideration (this is GUESSES) that quantity is limited and it's harder to port to than Mac mini which has already been ruled out.
Quote:

Is that the sole reason that you run around and badmouth all other solutions?

All I did was saying that it was not interesting, sure it might be to some but not to me. that's not badmouthing anything so please stop that.
I welcome all new hardware for AmigaOS and if someone really needs a PowerStation and Hyperion finds it to be a viable target fine with me.

Last edited by Troels on 04-Nov-2009 at 09:30 PM.

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@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Dandy I would add that Fixstars might be "tested" as you say, but not on Aos4 and some of the problems Olsen mentioned had to do with the weird motherboard architecture (south bridge/north bridge) and totally unsupported on board controllers for which "from scratch" drivers would have to be written.

CAre to elaborate what seems to be "weird" on the fixstars mainborad? You used that word repeatedly. And IMO neither the 970 is a weird processor, nor the CPC 745 northbridge. Tehh physical desig of tehmaunboard is probably a bit difficult, but sotwarewise I don't dee anything "weird" with these chips.

_________________
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@Zylesea
There have been several members here with a very different opinion, personally I don't care, if they go for fixstars all the better.

_________________
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@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote: @Dandy ... I concluded (from reading other sites) that it was no longer build. But I might be wrong ? You have been talking about this machine for a long time so I guess you did your homework and can tell me.

I've just mailed fixstars and asked them the following questions:

1) Are the PowerStations still in production as of 16th november 2009?

2) If not, roughly how much are still available?

3) If one wants to port an existing 32 bit PPC operating system to the PowerStation - is technical documentation on the hardware for developers available?


I'll let you know their reply once it arrives...

Quote:

Troels wrote: Quote: And why do you think a PPC Mac is better suited for Amiga desktop use than a PowerStation? - Doesn't use as much power.

No surprise, given its inferior performance...

Quote:

Troels wrote: - It's silent

Do you have the noise figures at hand? Then we could do an objerctive comparison.

Quote:

Troels wrote: - It's single core

I bet to implement SMP to AOS and its applications is much easier if you do it on a multi core hardware.

Quote:

Troels wrote: - it's 32 bit

I'm also almost sure that enhancing AmigaOS and its applications to 64 bit is better done on a hardware that supports both - 32- and 64 bit architechture.

Quote:

Troels wrote: - It can fit on my desk

So could the PowerStation.
Although I would prefer it at my desks side...

Quote:

Troels wrote: - It is an easier target (I THINK!) to port to.

To end this speculation we could ask the developers.

Quote:

Troels wrote: Quote: Mate, I don`t mind that your computing needs differ from mine. I don`t mind you to ask Hyoerion to support your MacMinis like I asked them to support the PowerStation. But please don`t mind me having the need for an Amiga PowerStation. I don't know your computing needs but please tell me what a Powerstation can do with AmigaOS4.1 that couldn't be done with a Mac mini G4 1.5Mhz? ...

On a PowerStation it should be possible to enhance the OS and its applications with SMP and 64 bit capability.
Not to mention the raw power...

Quote:

Troels wrote: As I wrote earlier the Powerstation has a good price and also some very nice specs. Personally I just think it's overkill for AmigaOS at the moment

Hmmmmm - I think its the optimal hardware to do the long overdue enhancements to the OS and its applications...

Quote:

Troels wrote: when you take into consideration (this is GUESSES) that quantity is limited

Lets wait and see what Fixstars reply...

Quote:

Troels wrote: and it's harder to port to than Mac mini which has already been ruled out.

That's somethuing the developers should answer. All info I got so far is that just a new HAL needs to be written - and that would be just one months work.

Quote:

Troels wrote: .... I welcome all new hardware for AmigaOS and if someone really needs a PowerStation and Hyperion finds it to be a viable target fine with me.

Glad to read that.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

"I'll let you know their reply once it arrives..."

Looking forward see what they have to say. I guess much documentation could be obtained from IBM if they still have it and wants to share.

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