@BrianK

Quote:

Come on dude high end PCs will undoubtably have Blu-Ray too it's not an advantage of the PS3 over high end PCs.

Sure it is, every PS3 comes with one as standard, that's already a userbase of millions and eventually tens of millions (some high profile games take years to develop anyhow). How many million PC users will own a Blu-Ray drive for their PC this year? My guess is closer to 0 million than to 1 million. PC game sales have already dropped significantly over the years, do you think PC gaming companies can justify creating games with the advantage of Blu-Ray in mind and of those few PC users who will own a Blu-Ray drive this year, is a majority of these a dedicated hard-core gamer?

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Apr-2007 at 08:08 PM.

@Tomas

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I have heard that they store the same data multiple times on the same blueray disc, so that the ps3 are able to access the data faster.

Can be done to reduce seektimes and not to waste the enormous space on the Blu-Ray disc, but if you design your game well for the PS3 (Oblivion, the game in question, wasn't designed for the PS3, but they cut the loading times in half and made them less frequent maybe by using the Cell instead of data duplication) I beleve that's not really required, Just level 1 data followed by level 2 data and so on.

@MikeB

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How many million PC users will own a Blu-Ray drive for their PC this year?

Depends on how many Sony eat and how the current ~$800 price point to add a Blu-Ray is accepted by the masses. But the high-end PC can obviously come with one.

Quote:

do you think PC gaming companies can justify creating games with the advantage of Blu-Ray in mind

The advantage is saved disc swaps. If you're sitting by your tower anyway certainly one can pickup an arm so the multi DVD won't kill ya. Data is data you can get it into the computer in multiple ways Blu-Ray is simply another media. Sorry no magic here.

Quote:

Blu-Ray drive this year, is a majority of these a dedicated hard-core gamer?

Likely yes. Seeing as it is the hard-core gamers that are the one's that buy SLI videocards, multiple multicore processors, and GB of RAM these are the same base that would push Blu-Ray. Though I think another group would be the home media center users that want to play Blu-Ray movies. Then of course there's the Tiggers who want massive backups for movies.

@BrianK

But the high-end PC can obviously come with one.

Start looking here

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

3/26 - 4/1 Japanese numbers

7th Gen
Wii - 51,365
PS3 - 16,889
360 - 3,889

6th Gen
PS2 - 17,787

***
Wii slipped but nearly selling 2:1 over PS2+PS3. PS3 almost catching up to PS2 but again both slipped. 360 a slight increase.

Seems to be Wii taking the 7th Gen in Japan.

@BrianK

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The advantage is saved disc swaps

No, the advantage is you will see 50 GB PS3 games, PC gaming companies have reasons to make sacrifices to keep discs to a minimum.

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: The advantage is saved disc swaps No, the advantage is you will see 50 GB PS3 games, PC gaming companies have reasons to make sacrifices to keep discs to a minimum.

Surely did not stop them from releasing cdrom games over plenty of discs.
I dont see how they should act any different with dvds.

Actually it was not until recently that they started switching over to dvd and the games still managed to look better than the dvd equivalent on a console.

I still want you to provide a link with info about this so called 50gig game.

@MikeB

Quote:

No, the advantage is you will see 50 GB PS3 games, PC gaming companies have reasons to make sacrifices to keep discs to a minimum.

And you won't see 50 GB PC games? Certainly if one can make a 50GB PS3 game they can make a 50GB PC game. PC gamers are next to their computer and would likely be more willing to swap multiple DVDs to get 50GB then someone on their couch. My point is valid the only advantage is stopping the disc swapping of a game that is larger then a single DVD.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: The advantage is saved disc swaps No, the advantage is you will see 50 GB PS3 games, PC gaming companies have reasons to make sacrifices to keep discs to a minimum.

PC's offer much more storage in the form of HDD for less money. Gigabit LAN and 802.11n is here as are 9MB/s dowload speeds from cable-modems. Disc media is becoming obselete. I downloaded World of Warcraft and Lord Of The Rings:Online over the internet. Movie dowload services are already available and are more convenient that walking to a store and having to swap in even 1 disc.

And PC's have been "hi-def" way before it was cool to be "hi-def". PC's had motion contollers before motion controllers were cool. PC's had LCD displays before HDTV's were the in thing. PC's had Dolby Digital sound before digital sound was cool.

Oh ...
and PCs are used to make PS3, 360 and Wii games, not the other way around.

The 360 and PS3 are trying to replace PC's but the cost doesn't justify the experience. That is the point of the article. That and that the Wii is a gaming console with just a couple of "nice-to-have" features and is cheap enough at launch to attract a wide audience.

Finally, it's a myth that PC gaming is on the decline. These "sales charts" that support this myth don't consider MMO revenue.

I personally have been neglecting my Wii in favor of World of Warcraft. However, the Wii does come in handy when I have company.

You will never own a console and NOT own a PC. My PC is top of the line for 2003 (yes, 2003) and I run WoW @ 1280x1024 with all the bells and whistles without a hiccup. WoW uses 440MB of my system's memory when it runs, not counting the graphics card usage. How much RAM does the PS3 have available to the cpu again?

Honestly, both the 360 and PS3 are hitting the law of diminishing returns in the price/performance/fun/usefulness departments.

Interesting poll:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2717

@Lou

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PC's offer much more storage in the form of HDD for less money

Both my PC and PS3 can be easily upgraded with 2.5 and 3.5 inch harddrives.

Quote:

How much RAM does the PS3 have available to the cpu again?

The PS3 vs PS2, amount of RAM ratio difference is higher than the ratio DVD vs Blu-Ray storage. So IMO DVD was just about sufficient for the PS2 but not for the PS3 for the long run. 480p vs 1080p, better audio, bigger more complex games, etc.

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Apr-2007 at 10:52 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

And you won't see 50 GB PC games? Certainly if one can make a 50GB PS3 game they can make a 50GB PC game. PC gamers are next to their computer and would likely be more willing to swap multiple DVDs to get 50GB then someone on their couch. My point is valid the only advantage is stopping the disc swapping of a game that is larger then a single DVD.

Like I said a few months ago the sustained speed of Blu-Ray throughout the disc is a huge benefit. (predictable, all PS3s offerig idential minimal specs)

@MikeB

Quote:

Like I said a few months ago the sustained speed of Blu-Ray throughout the disc is a huge benefit.

Huge? nope... Slight? Perhaps. Can you offer up 1 50GB game that needs to continually stream the entire game off of the disc? Of course not. Will some exist? perhaps a handful where this would be a benefit. But, when you move to the PC you move to the ability to install all the content on the HDD. Why not copy all content to the HDD then stream the game at even higher rates of speed?

Again you are claiming you can easily add a 2.5" or 3.5" HDD to your PS3. Can you please explain to us why you love the idea of having an ugly 3.5" HDD which is more sensitive to movement has it's own sets of wires and sticks out like an eyesore in the place of an external 360 power supply, you know the one you state you hate because it's not in the unit? Seems to me each would be an eyesore to you and you'd quickly throw out the 3.5" option due to it's likewise ugliness.

@Lou

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These "sales charts" that support this myth don't consider MMO revenue.

My understanding is those sales charts only count boxed games sold at retailers. Online gaming would greatly be missing. Pogo.com is just one site that's grown year over year and hasn't seen a 40% decline that pundits declare for the death of PC gaming. I think it's clear that PC gaming is going more online for downloads and more online for gaming. The model here is shifting and the pundits, IMO, are missing the paradigm shift and assume everyones moving to consoles. Undoubtably there is some but I'm doubtful it's the numbers the pundits believe.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: PC's offer much more storage in the form of HDD for less money Both my PC and PS3 can be easily upgraded with 2.5 and 3.5 inch harddrives. Quote: How much RAM does the PS3 have available to the cpu again? The PS3 vs PS2, amount of RAM ratio difference is higher than the ratio DVD vs Blu-Ray storage. So IMO DVD was just about sufficient for the PS2 but not for the PS3 for the long run. 480p vs 1080p, better audio, bigger more complex games, etc.

That's great that you compare a PS2 to a PS3 but the topic was why consoles like the PS3 will never measure up to a PC for real hardcore gamers...

Yes you can add more expensive external drives that have to be formatted by Sony, but how do you back them up?

@MikeB

It appears there is a PS3 hack to play PS2 backups. It involves drilling a Blu-Ray sized hole above the DVD player so you can swap the PS2 disc w/ a backup PS2 disc. (not all details are here but you are all capable of using the internets)

How funny is that spend $600 to saw it apart so you can play illegal copies of a console that would cost you $130 to get.

Production company hints at lower costing 360 and PS3 coming within a year:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5184&Itemid=2

@Lou

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Yes you can add more expensive external drives that have to be formatted by Sony

You couldn't write a less accurate sentence.
They are not any more expensive, they do not need to be external, they do not need to be formatted by Sony.

If you want more capacity you can change the internal drive. These are standard PC parts bought from a PC shop, they do *not* need to be pre-formatted by anyone. Why should they be any more expensive when Sony doesn't even sell them?

Quote:

but how do you back them up?

Funnily enough there is something called "backup utility".


You can attach 3.5" drives but these have to be external.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@minator

Quote:

minator wrote: @Lou Quote: Yes you can add more expensive external drives that have to be formatted by Sony You couldn't write a less accurate sentence. They are not any more expensive, they do not need to be external, they do not need to be formatted by Sony. If you want more capacity you can change the internal drive. These are standard PC parts bought from a PC shop, they do *not* need to be pre-formatted by anyone. Why should they be any more expensive when Sony doesn't even sell them? Quote: but how do you back them up? Funnily enough there is something called "backup utility". You can attach 3.5" drives but these have to be external.

You contradict yourself.
So I buy a PS3 with a 60GB HDD and have to chuck it and buy a bigger one.
2.5" HDD's are more expensive than 3.5" HDD's - FACT
an external 3.5" HDD comes with a usb inteface and enclosure thereby raising the cost over just adding another internal one on a PC - FACT
These hard drives are only useable on the PS3 when formatted by Sony's proprietary format. So how do you back up a HD with a proprietary format and where do you back it up to? Tape drive? - not on a PS3...

Ofcourse this is why I saw the 20GB PS3 as the better deal since it came with a throw-away 20GB hard drive that I could replace with a 100GB hard drive for less than the difference in cost of it and the 60GB PS3...but alas! ... the 20GB model is no more...like I predicted in several a prior PS3 thread...

Last edited by Lou on 11-Apr-2007 at 03:11 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Quote: @minator You can attach 3.5" drives but these have to be external. You contradict yourself. ... an external 3.5" HDD comes with a usb inteface and enclosure thereby raising the cost over just adding another internal one on a PC - FACT

Think of this a different way. An external HDD could mean a HDD not within the PS3. It could simply be any internal HDD left outsdie the PS3. One could extend the SATA cabling out of the 2.5" bay and connect it to an internal 3.5" HDD and leave that drive external to the PS3. Sony should have made the slot 3.5" w/ a tray for 2.5" drives that way us users could have used the less expensive form factor and kept it all within the console.

Quote:

These hard drives are only useable on the PS3 when formatted by Sony's proprietary format. So how do you back up a HD with a proprietary format and where do you back it up to?

The PS3 has a Backup Utility which one can backup to storage media. Now where can one buy a 100GB Sony Memory Stick? 1GB SD cards can be found for about $10 on sale. So one only needs to spend $1000 to backup their system.