@Cod3r

I belive that Elbox get A OS running with their Dragon accelerator something like 030 50mhz speed, mean no emulation just somekind of dragon.library?

They demoed it several times in Poland. http://www.elbox.com/news_06_11_11.html

That would be something, to get Dragon run A OS code without emulation, but much faster than Elbox did. It is also proved that it is possible make exe that can run natively both 68k and coldfire.

Maybe you could contact Elbox, seems that they have hardware but no software

@utri007

Quote:

utri007 wrote: @Cod3r I belive that Elbox get A OS running with their Dragon accelerator something like 030 50mhz speed, mean no emulation just somekind of dragon.library? They demoed it several times in Poland. http://www.elbox.com/news_06_11_11.html That would be something, to get Dragon run A OS code without emulation, but much faster than Elbox did. It is also proved that it is possible make exe that can run natively both 68k and coldfire. Maybe you could contact Elbox, seems that they have hardware but no software

There would have to be some form of emulation unless they ran ColdFire binaries alone, because some of the opcodes overlap and would have unexpected results on opposite processors (68k or ColdFire).

What is the status on this project? Most of the stuff I read about Elbox is really negative especially about this product. At least what I saw on this site.

I would be willing to talk to them though and share what I know...

@Cod3r

not to spit all over elbox i use a pci bridge they built and its really useful and reliable and fits nicely into my a4000 desktop. i cant count how many times i replaced expansion cards in it for pure testing each day and it runs like a charm. what concerns coldfire, i think it was on the edge where they have given up the development and for now they are just getting rid of stock. thats the situation in here yo know..

@Cod3r

Quote:

@wawa Quote: wawa wrote: @NutsAboutAmiga Quote: General speaking you need a product that can boot and uses a PowerPC that is compatible whit Hyperion’s specifications, then hyperion-entertainment can make a deal whit you. + a fair amount of cash to pay for the port as its been told by informed sources. Please elaborate on what you mean. Do you mean to make a PowerPC based system to run AmigaOS4 you have to pay for it? I'm not sure I read it right...

sorry for a late answer. here is a link to what one of a beta tester says on a german forum. you will have o use some translation tool. basically it says os4 devs may consider to port os4 to a new (ppc) hardware for 5 digit amount of cash. no reason to doubt this, cause the source is one of the most supportive betatester os4 fans:
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32078&page=11
post 211

@Cod3r

bottom line components for Linux (kernel, shell, scripting languages) can work on the original specification of i386, including a GUI.

Linux was designed for cross-CPU portability. Neither AmigaOS 3.x nor MorphOS was. Then of course MorphOS won't run on M68k. On the other hand I would love to see how let's say current Debian runs on 80386 processor...

What happened to the prospect of AmigaOS being able to do that?

Nothing. I guess "bottom line components" of MorphOS can run even on 16 or maybe 8 MB of memory. As MorphOS was never designed to be run in console mode only, separating those components could be more difficult than in Linux.

hmm, Haiku OS is a 64mb ISO

MorphOS boot image for Efika contains the fully functional system, including GUI, drivers, desktop, network support and a set of basic system tools. It is 11 MB in size.

Why can't a commercial OS as AmigaOS or MorphOS at least compete with that?

I can't say for AmigaOS 4, but MorphOS, as you can see, can do it. Simply when MorphOS was started in 1999 or so, the weakest hardware for it was Blizzard PPC turboboard with 160 MHz PowerPC 603e processor and some 32 MB of RAM. There was no point to go for lower spec. Similarly the weakest hardware for current version of MorphOS is Efika 5200 B with 400 MHz MPC5200B Freescale processor and 128 MB of memory. After boot you have still 80 MB of memory free and lots of simple applications run just fine. The system itself including desktop runs without any problems. Applications, this is another story. You cannot expect a modern webbrowser will run on 80 MB without memory swapping (in fact one can use Odyssey on Efika for some websites). You cannot expect a movie player showing 720p movie on 400 MHz processor having no SIMD unit. But youtube standard resolution clips play just fine.

Last edited by g_kraszewski on 23-Jul-2012 at 10:18 AM.

_________________
RastPort

@number6

Quote:

As I indicated earlier, during and after the lawsuit, many people left. I think they became resigned to the fact the community would essentially be for developers and a small group of fans, until such time as they felt the OS would be ready for primetime, so to speak. The choice of a more powerful but expensive computer not geared towards entry level also speaks to that desire from developers as well. In short, the thrust has not been on marketing for these reasons, imo. #6

I wholeheartedly agree with this one.

@Cod3r

Just supplying this link, since I don't know exactly what you read here on AW.
Even if you saw this, other folks that joined AW after this was posted might find it interesting.

The Dragon is stirring - at last!

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

Does this count as 'supporting' the Amiga?

http://bit.ly/LJj8Z1

_________________

@djrikki

it is at least supporting "AmigaOS" and "X1000". Nice one...

@djrikki

"it's fast".... hmm....
Has anyone compared firefox vs timberwolf on similar spec HW on both PPC and x86? (or FF of PPC linux vs TF on AOS4?)

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

to compare PPC and X86 is "unfair" because X86 (mostly) offers more optimizations (JIT at OWB as example). So it would be more fair compare it on the same hardware (f.e. Linux-version vs. AOS-version)

@thread

If you've read the postings from HJF and Thomas, you'll note there are 2 phases here.(1)stability and usability (2)optimizations, including what you might call Amiga features.

Since the focus is on (1), I don't see why you are moving on to stage (2) comparisons at this point.

Regardless, if you feel compelled to talk about that, please do it here:

Timberwolf RC1

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Cod3r not to spit all over elbox i use a pci bridge they built and its really useful and reliable and fits nicely into my a4000 desktop. i cant count how many times i replaced expansion cards in it for pure testing each day and it runs like a charm. what concerns coldfire, i think it was on the edge where they have given up the development and for now they are just getting rid of stock. thats the situation in here yo know..

Let me say I have nothing against Elbox at all but I read some thread bashing them and calling the Dragon vaporware.

I can't say what is what but if they made good products and you enjoy the use of them, I would suggest that maybe they actually possibly did make the Dragon. If you can engineer some solutions you don't just forget how to make good stuff overnight.

Maybe those posters were just overly suspicious. I know how that can be

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Cod3r Quote: @wawa Quote: wawa wrote: @NutsAboutAmiga Quote: General speaking you need a product that can boot and uses a PowerPC that is compatible whit Hyperion’s specifications, then hyperion-entertainment can make a deal whit you. + a fair amount of cash to pay for the port as its been told by informed sources. Please elaborate on what you mean. Do you mean to make a PowerPC based system to run AmigaOS4 you have to pay for it? I'm not sure I read it right... sorry for a late answer. here is a link to what one of a beta tester says on a german forum. you will have o use some translation tool. basically it says os4 devs may consider to port os4 to a new (ppc) hardware for 5 digit amount of cash. no reason to doubt this, cause the source is one of the most supportive betatester os4 fans: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32078&page=11 post 211

Online translation wasn't so good for me but I get the point. I lost my ability to understand German long time ago even though I used to watch German cartoons as a kid

@Cod3r

The only "point" is that a beta tester would not know anything about porting costs, since head of development does not even know that one.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Quote:

The only "point" is that a beta tester would not know anything about porting costs

The person in question sometimes gets carried away by his enthusiasm and makes his speculations sound like fact. Using him as a source was not a good idea. Bad boy, wawa.

@g_kraszewski

Quote:

g_kraszewski wrote: @Cod3r bottom line components for Linux (kernel, shell, scripting languages) can work on the original specification of i386, including a GUI. Linux was designed for cross-CPU portability. Neither AmigaOS 3.x nor MorphOS was. Then of course MorphOS won't run on M68k. On the other hand I would love to see how let's say current Debian runs on 80386 processor... What happened to the prospect of AmigaOS being able to do that? Nothing. I guess "bottom line components" of MorphOS can run even on 16 or maybe 8 MB of memory. As MorphOS was never designed to be run in console mode only, separating those components could be more difficult than in Linux. hmm, Haiku OS is a 64mb ISO MorphOS boot image for Efika contains the fully functional system, including GUI, drivers, desktop, network support and a set of basic system tools. It is 11 MB in size. Why can't a commercial OS as AmigaOS or MorphOS at least compete with that? I can't say for AmigaOS 4, but MorphOS, as you can see, can do it. Simply when MorphOS was started in 1999 or so, the weakest hardware for it was Blizzard PPC turboboard with 160 MHz PowerPC 603e processor and some 32 MB of RAM. There was no point to go for lower spec. Similarly the weakest hardware for current version of MorphOS is Efika 5200 B with 400 MHz MPC5200B Freescale processor and 128 MB of memory. After boot you have still 80 MB of memory free and lots of simple applications run just fine. The system itself including desktop runs without any problems. Applications, this is another story. You cannot expect a modern webbrowser will run on 80 MB without memory swapping (in fact one can use Odyssey on Efika for some websites). You cannot expect a movie player showing 720p movie on 400 MHz processor having no SIMD unit. But youtube standard resolution clips play just fine.

Well, the current Debian distro in its entirety will obviously crawl on a i386. But if you take the kernel, drivers, Xserver and a light WM given enough memory it can be usable. The memory is the big part of the speed in Linux. Of course, I am not saying use Firefox, VirtualBox and compile kernels on a i386...

I am not talking about app requirements and everything, but if you are a commercial OS on the fringe of what is considered modern you shouldn't need more requirements than freely available OSes (with open source) can offer.

You can run a modern web browser with 80MB. Mobile devices do it all day long without swapping. And you can watch a 720p movie (depending on its encoding) with 400mhz. As long as the storage device can supply the media at a decent rate it can be done.

Not to pick an argument at all but it is sad how many are misinformed about what power is needed to do a given task.

I know what the (most) developers with their bloated libraries probably say. But the truth is that if they knew how to truly write and optimize code instead of tossing libraries on top of more libraries, they would see what power in a system really is.

I am a relatively young guy and i'm not a prodigy and I can make a ColdFire do 720p video. Why can't an experience development team do the same with a equal or greater CPU?

@Cod3r

Quote:

And you can watch a 720p movie (depending on its encoding) with 400mhz. As long as the storage device can supply the media at a decent rate it can be done.

Funny, we were discussing that in irc just last night. True.
Problem is...people who rarely encode read things like "h264 is the best!" and don't think to encode otherwise.
Oh, and utube will alter your choice of codec, as I understand it. So that's not good.
You would need to upload a 2nd version for users with less powerful h/w to a different place.

Another site that re-encodes the uploads:
Quote:

They then encode it into the 3Btv format.

Used to be WMV9. Have not checked lately.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 23-Jul-2012 at 06:06 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 23-Jul-2012 at 05:55 PM.

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Cod3r

Elbox surely made Dragon, they even demoed it several times. They just couldn't get it work speedy enough.

A4000 could already play 512i videos with 040/25Mhz in 1994 or so.
A3000 with DCTV could play 256p video in 1991.

I think I saw standard Mac or x86 play full screen video late nineties for the first time (without mpeg HW acceleration). In 1997 normal multimedia kiosk Mac played video only in small window (if not already crashed). A few yars later windows version vas not much better, except there was bsod instead of bomb.

But yeah, codec matters.

Anyone played with CDXL animations during recent years?

In Amiga hobbyist world we could use some lighter compression for non-movielength videos. Too bad everybody first try to mimic the mainstream.
And/or as it seems that mpeg HW of modern GPUs are under NDA that we can not overcome, we should go for our own...

(damn, I miss half of the keys because of sore finger...)

Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jul-2012 at 06:17 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jul-2012 at 06:15 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jul-2012 at 06:14 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jul-2012 at 06:13 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?