What does the AmigaWorld.net brain thrust think about the Freescale MPC8610, the upcoming *Power* SoC?



It integrates the latest e600/G4 (7448) core running at speeds up to 1333MHz (*includes Altivec*) on a single chip together with some traditional Northbridge/Southbridge controllers (including 533 MHz/1066DDR memory controller and PCI-express), *and* a LCD controller capable or resolutions up to SXGA 1280 x 1024 resolution and 24 bits per pixel!

Highlights:

* e600 core built on Power Architecture technology, with 256 KB backside L2 cache with ECC
* Up to 1333 MHz performance and 3060 MIPS
* AltiVec® 128-bit vector processing engine to accelerate image recognition and encoding/decoding
* DDR/DDR2 SDRAM Memory Controller with ECC (up to 533 MHz)
* Integrated Display Controller supports up to SXGA 1280 x 1024 resolution and 24 bits per pixel
* Two synchronous serial interface (SSI) controllers for I2S or AC97 audio inputs/outputs
* Two PCI Express® Interfaces, one with 1x/2x/4x/8x lanes for connecting graphics processors
* PCI 2.2 Interface at 32-bits and 66 MHz

IMHO this could be used in various thin and small products, but it *could also* be used in a new Pegasos style desktop class motherboard (MiniITX/FlexATX/MicroATX depending on ambitions regarding expandability).

Every developer needs a desktop!

When the Pegasos 2 (1GHz G4) reached the end of its line, it was sold for $399 (~270 EUR). The MPC8610 could very well function as the base for an upgraded Pegasos, possibly with an even lower price?

More info:
MPC8610 Product Homepage
MPC8610 Fact Sheet (PDF)

What do you think?

@takemehomegrandma

Looks interesting, but any info on the pricing?

@takemehomegrandma

It's a neat idea. For us as people wanting to play videogames and things like that, the LCD controller is probably a bit weak for the performance we;d like as desktop and gamer users. We're of course not the kind of people this chip was made for though. It's a cool idea, and I hope to see more of that sort of thing. But after PA Semi was learned about, I'm more interested in 64bit, and I believe PA Semi's power consumption is lower than the e600 core to core. I was pretty disappointed when the 8641 core power ratings were announced, was noticably higher than originally estimated. My dream is an Amiga laptop, and if we are stuck with PowerPC, then I think the PA Semi is the best choice for that for both battery life and performance. Power consumption is really my only complaint, unless they've maybe improved that since what I saw for the 8641's e600 implementation and I just haven't been paying attention anymore.

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@takemehomegrandma

The 8610 Developer Program announced...

http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-has-changed.html

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@COBRA

$176.56 ??

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@takemehomegrandma

Looks very nice... as the perfect replacement for PegasosII.

BTW, what happened to 8641D?

Let's hope they are capable of producing it in enough numbers this time

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@billt

I think the 8610 is comparable to AMCC's 460EX, but is slightly more powerful (1.3GHz vs. 1.2GHz) with Altivec, which the 460EX does not have. Both have 32/32k L1 cache, 256MB L2 cache, DDR1/2 memory controller, 4-channel DMA and PCI-Express. The 460EX has built-in USB2.0, Gigabit Ethernet and SATA, while the 8610 has built-in LCD controller and AC97. The 460EX is considerably cheaper, with about $50 for larger quantities.

Last edited by COBRA on 15-Jan-2008 at 04:33 PM.
Last edited by COBRA on 15-Jan-2008 at 04:32 PM.
Last edited by COBRA on 15-Jan-2008 at 03:39 PM.

@COBRA

8641 has 1MB of L2 cache and 8641 has Altivec.

It looks as if AMCC's 460EX was based on a 603e core. Unfortunately it lacks Altivec support

IMHO any new machine should include Altivec and a nice L2 cache as standard. There are already low-end machines like Efika/Sam440. The amiga market needs a Peg2/A1-G4 substitute.


@to those who will add stupid comments about not much Altivec software being available or Altivec being useless:

There's no much Altivec software for OS4 because Eyetech took the stupid decission of using a G3 instead of G4 on uA1s.

Last edited by Crumb on 15-Jan-2008 at 04:25 PM.
Last edited by Crumb on 15-Jan-2008 at 04:22 PM.

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@Crumb

Sorry I meant the 8610, I corrected my post.

@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote: IMHO any new machine should include Altivec and a nice L2 cache as standard. There are already low-end machines like Efika/Sam440. The amiga market needs a Peg2/A1-G4 substitute.

Agreed. Altivec can definitely boost performance when used.

Hans

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@takemehomegrandma
I think bbrv are asking for favours again from people to "spread the news". Call me when something actually ships.

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@ssolie

Quote:

I think bbrv are asking for favours again from people to "spread the news".

What's wrong with you? This thread is here because I wanted some reflections about this upcoming processor in the context of our community! No products are here, no products has been announced, but it's an interesting CPU and I hope it got the attention of some people, as the thread also brought AMCC's 460EX to *my* attention (looks interesting, though it has lower performance and other things embedded than the display).

Quote:

Call me when something actually ships.

Never claimed anything ships!

Just wanted to highlight this CPU since it is a SoC that addresses what some people around here has objected against the 5xxx SoC's, namely CPU raw performance, while at the same time it integrates a display core which is *very unusual* in SoC designs and a great cost saver for system builders. It could potentially be used in LimePC-kind-of devices instead of 5121e (bottom of post), or why not (since it IMHO is a "Pegasos 3 on a chip" (or a Peg2.5 at least)) an upgraded *desktop* motherboard? And *a discussion* is not out of place since Genesi obviously has their eye on this chip, which necessarily doesn't have to mean a thing, but what's wrong with discussing potential technology in a discussion forum, especially technology that has popped up on the radar of the few who actually develops hardware?

Bläh!

@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @takemehomegrandma Looks interesting, but any info on the pricing?

I'd say that could be a matter of negotiation...

@Hans
I definitely agree! Once I read a document on how to use Altivec to decode the TCP header!

@COBRA

While the AMCC 460EX is definitely an intersting chip the 440 core
(that is used in the 460EX) is *not* en par with the e600 core.
But ibm shows impressively that the 440 core ban be capable of quite a
lot to say the least (BlueGene).

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@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @billt I think the 8610 is comparable to AMCC's 460EX, but is slightly more powerful (1.3GHz vs. 1.2GHz) with Altivec, which the 460EX does not have. Both have 32/32k L1 cache, 256MB L2 cache, DDR1/2 memory controller, 4-channel DMA and PCI-Express. The 460EX has built-in USB2.0, Gigabit Ethernet and SATA, while the 8610 has built-in LCD controller and AC97. The 460EX is considerably cheaper, with about $50 for larger quantities.

I don't think that the 8610 and 460 are compareable by clockrate.

The 460 has TWO INTEGER INSTRUCTION UNITS
The G4 has FOUR INTEGER INSTRUCTION UNITS
And as you said already the G4 has ALTIVEC.


I would always expect the G4 to be 25-50% faster than the 460.

Cheers
Gunnar

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@billt

Quote:

billt wrote: @takemehomegrandma It's a neat idea. For us as people wanting to play videogames and things like that, the LCD controller is probably a bit weak for the performance we;d like as desktop and gamer users. We're of course not the kind of people this chip was made for though. It's a cool idea, and I hope to see more of that sort of thing. But after PA Semi was learned about, I'm more interested in 64bit, and I believe PA Semi's power consumption is lower than the e600 core to core. I was pretty disappointed when the 8641 core power ratings were announced, was noticably higher than originally estimated. My dream is an Amiga laptop, and if we are stuck with PowerPC, then I think the PA Semi is the best choice for that for both battery life and performance. Power consumption is really my only complaint, unless they've maybe improved that since what I saw for the 8641's e600 implementation and I just haven't been paying attention anymore.

The PA-Semi produces cetainly very nice chips.
And their clever design achiving their low power consumption was very impressive when it came out.

But I wonder if 64bit is of any advantage for a Desktop or Amiga system?
64bit is really about 64bit adresses - this makes sense if you need more than 2GB of memory.
If you think that this is nesssary for a desktop or Amiga system then 64bit makes sense.
Otherwise 64bits is more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

Clock by clock the Freescale G4 is the PowerPC with the most integercalculation power.
Clock by clock the G4 beats the G3,G5,Pa-Semi and even the POWER chips from IBM in integer performance.

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@ssolie

If bbrv somehow works out a deal with Hyperion and Amiga Inc to sell OS4 with their hardware, I will gladly buy most anything they sell (it would need to be at least G4+altivec and cost at most $1000 for the bare board+CPU though - not a lot to ask for).

@takemehomegrandma

Nice cpu, but I think the 8641D is the better choise:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8641D&nodeId=0162468rH3bTdG8653

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@AmigaPapst

The 8641is pretty expensive and draws some power. The 8641 is the perfect choice for network applications.

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