@Overflow

If you own it you find that biggest problem is web browsers modern ones are slow, and old ones render wrong. voip software like Skype or MSN is lacking.

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@Petah
Do a very inexpensive A1200 magic bundle HW, OS and apps.
Give the customer a whole basic kit to get going/hooked- upgrades=$$$$
Tall order, but that's what needs to be done from my commander's throne.

Last edited by debrun on 21-Oct-2012 at 10:50 PM.

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If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill

@NutsAboutAmiga

You mean propably "not the best choice". Otherwise I would not agree (from personal experience and my work in my job). It might be ok to do some personal things as long as you do not have to exchange data.

@asymetrix

Low cost machine would be essential.

It should build so that people can expand it.

PS. Amiga was originally low cost machine. With PPC cpu it shoul be possible to buil 50€ mobo easily.

@utri007

A competitive PPC system for 50 EUR?

If they want 50K users, they need to go the cheap hardware route. Port to ARM, bundle with one of the cheapo android sticks, get 68K emulation working well and bundle with a ton of old Amiga games -- and market it as the new 'Amiga'.

It'd probably help to make versions compatible with Raspberry Pi and other ARM devices too, and then they have a chance to get to 50K users. Final price to the consumer has to be less than $100 (ideally $50-$75) for it to have any shot reaching that number.

x86 is another possibility, but that would also mean basically nobody owning
an x86 machine would be using Amiga OS as their main operating system, not with Windows and Linux also available. They may try it out -- if free -- on a virtual machine, but I wouldn't think many would end up using it much more than that.

Last edited by Nameless on 21-Oct-2012 at 11:53 PM.

@Petah
Put OlafS25 in charge of Hyperion

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@Troels

i think hed be doing fine, not much to do give away whats left out and have our fun. dont you think?

seriously: does everybody think that keeping stuff close to the chest is going to rescue os4 let alone us all? you think talented crowd will join us being greedy and all be fine? sounds to me like taking others for fools, i just hope this strategy succeeds.

Last edited by wawa on 22-Oct-2012 at 01:46 AM.

Fairly simple, it's been done many times before.

Lower the cost of the hardware (reduce barrier to entry).
Right now, few people a spending ~$3000 on a "Firefox Appliance". That kind of money constitutes in most first world countries close to 1 month's salary (on average). The cost of OS4.x entry level hardware needs to be in the ~$300 range. Of course it would be less powerful than a x1000 (if such a thing is possible :P). In many of the developing countries around the world this is around the average monthly salary.

Reduced barrier to entry increases adoption (larger user base).
With the above price you could get to 50k user base. Also, because most people didn't "break the bank" to buy the hardware they have money for software. Kickstarter or bounty based development from a pool of 50000 install base could yield some positive results.

Market Economics 101

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All the way, with 68k

As nearly everyone said: x86 or arm.
Ppc costs too much, you don't find it,even from your hardware pusher and has less power than a n old smartphone

@thread

It's way too easy to throw in x86 ARM suggestions.
There are no dektop capable ARM chips yet. (perhaps next year, perhaps not)

There is no way to create stable system on x86 without custom board. (price will not be cheaper than with PPC)

AOS4+SW port to ARM or x86 will cost something like 100 000+ eur or one decade


SO:
Fine tune AOS4 SW offerings, help to get 200eur PPC HW out.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Oct-2012 at 07:52 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

Go X86, but do it the Mac way. One could use available hardware that is easily produced in low and high end. Yet through a method similar to Mac, only Amiga OS can be installed on those particular machines---machines with a distinctive styling. Of course, this would allow the user to still be able to install other operating systems as with a Macintosh. With restriction of the hardware, the OS could be developed for limited drivers with emphasis on software while still keeping the hardware affordable and adding features currently missing. Listen, it worked for Apple. In fact, Apple nearly went under. It has succeeded in part because of the switch to standard hardware. One might say Macs are all lipstick and no kiss, but they attract a lot of people willing to pay significantly more for the same machine specs.

@azhoward

>Go X86, but do it the Mac way. One could use available hardware that is easily produced in low and high end.

Apple has spent millions in developing motherboard designs for their own x86 computers. We can not afford that.

> Listen, it worked for Apple. In fact, Apple nearly went under. It has succeeded in part because of the switch to standard hardware.

They did not switch to standard HW.

They had millions to use in the architecture changes. They still have their own motherboards, only the CPU core changed. And the end user price is still very highe when compared to "standard".

You can not go to local PC shop, buy any HW and expect it to work on Mac any better than on Amiga. You need drivers for both.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Oct-2012 at 07:58 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

You take me too literally. PC companies and Mac as well develop their own motherboards, but they still use processors and support chips that are produced in the millions. And yes they did switch to "standard" hardware in this respect. Macs use Intel processors and chips that are used in 100s of millions of non-Mac machines. If Mac OS is so unique, why can this OS be used on generic hardware when installed through procedures that circumvent its restrictions---currently called "hacintoshes". So yes, one can go to a local PC shop and buy hardware that will work with Mac OS! I have one that has worked beautifully with Snow Leopard with out any notice of the label. I also have an Intel iMac and my generic machine is as good if not better in performance due to the fact that I can upgrade the video card as well as make other additions. My iMac cost $1700. My hacintosh cost around $280. Both run Snow Leopard and have the same software and except for video and memory have nearly the same specs.

One does not have to design the motherboard in order to add the same sort of restrictions. Frankly, to many people Apple's styling and performance as well as Mac OS is the only thing they notice. They could care one flip about what drives the machine. If they did, they wouldn't buy a machine such as iMac that is barely upgradeable or becomes a door stop if it develops a significant hardware fault. Fortunately, Macs seem to be well built with decent specs and high styling, which helps as well.

@azhoward

Quote:

azhoward wrote: @KimmoK So yes, one can go to a local PC shop and buy hardware that will work with Mac OS! I have one that has worked beautifully with Snow Leopard with out any notice of the label.

Now that's very interesting, I'm currently (still) deciding whether to buy a brand new mac solely for internet use with either Leopard or Snow Leopard but I never knew you could run Mac OSX on non Mac hardware...

Could you tell me the make and model of the PC you used that runs Snow Leopard as I'd rather buy something like that than pay a fortune for another poncy iMac, that to be honest as well as being next to impossible to upgrade you are simply paying over the odds cos Apple thinks they look cool & trendy...

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@Franko

Just google `hackintosh` or `osx86` and there`s a raft of info out there

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Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@KimmoK


Quote:

There are no dektop capable ARM chips yet. (perhaps next year, perhaps not)

The Marvell Armada XP chip have been out for a year. They have been designed from the ground up as desktop SoC's.

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@azhoward

"but they still use processors and support chips that are produced in the millions."

So does modern Amigas.

Other than that.
You have to be carefull what hardware to buy if you intend to use it with your OS.
Drivers usually exist for windows 32bit. Recently also for windows 64bit.
Pretty rarely HW manufacturers have made special driver support for Mac.
One better look for HW that specificly mentions OSX.

If your hackintosh works perfectly, then good for you.

(unless I'm mistaken, you have been very lucky, I often managed to find HW combinations that did not work with my previous windows version ... so I quit paying for wordprocessor OS and got linux. Similar driver issues, but at least it's free.)

UPDATE:
The reason for Apple to go for intel was because PPC was dropping (too far) behind intel in performance. Not because PPC chips were more expensive.
On our niche we have more severe "problems" than performance.
Like how hard it is to get drivers written to a HW.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Oct-2012 at 11:26 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Frags

Quote:

Frags wrote: @Franko Just google `hackintosh` or `osx86` and there`s a raft of info out there

Cheers for that...

Just googled "hackintosh" and there is tons of stuff out there... neat... time to figure out what to buy now...

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@terminills

Had not spotted that chip before, thanks.

So ARM has PCIe x4 now. It's a start. I admit.

But would it be worth to go for 1.6Ghz ARM with PCIex4 when PPC is more powerfull?
PPC SoCs start from below 40eur (1Ghz) and if that 1.6Ghz ARM with PCIex4 is similarly priced, then perhaps, it could be an option already.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?