@Tigger

Quote:

I'm not sure how it clears up anything, as far as I can tell it all occurs after the sale to Itec and the Hyperion-Itec agreement, at which point the entire AI is/isnt insolvent becomes a moot point, even if it were legal under US Law.

Actually, there's a bit more to it than that. This document is proof that Amiga Washington considered itself the owner of all Amiga intellectual property, including OS4, back in 2004, and by this they disprove of a transfer of such IP to ITEC in 2003. If they declare in 2004 that they are the owner of OS4, then they could not have approved a transfer of OS4 to ITEC in 2003. We know that there is no written approval for the transfer of IP to ITEC by Amiga Washington, they would have already presented it if they had one, and this document also proves that they did not approve of such a transfer to ITEC. Which means ITEC do not legally own any rights to OS4, even if they did pay the full sum of $25k. This alone kills ITEC's NY case altogether, if it is to proceed.

Because in this case the OS4 contract remains with Amiga Washington and this document proves that Amiga Washington were so insolvent that they were even unable to pay the legal costs to file for bankruptcy, the insolvency clause of the contract grants AmigaOne partners a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide license to develop and distribute AmigaOS4.

Last edited by COBRA on 28-Aug-2007 at 04:20 PM.
Last edited by COBRA on 28-Aug-2007 at 01:11 PM.

@Seer

Quote:

How did he get this ? If this is indeed from Garry, why was it not send to Hyperion first ?

How do you know that Hyperion did not get it before this guy?

Quote:

Any proof the fax is authentic ?

It contains the signatures of Bill McEwen and Garry Hare all over.

Quote:

I'm sure if this fax is real and useable then Hyperion would have used it by now.

If this fax is authenic then I'm sure Hyperion already have it and that they will use it in the case when it is their turn to submit new evidence.

Last edited by COBRA on 28-Aug-2007 at 01:13 PM.

@COBRA

How do you know that Hyperion did not have it already when Garry got it?

According to the source; Please spreed this document to Hyperion and other forums.

It contains the signatures of Bill McEwen and Garry Hare all over.

So ? The quality of the fax document is real poor, even for a fax. You can hardly read the dates on the header so any "photoshopped" artifacts would be impossible to detect.. If it is even possible to detect those on a 2bit image. (The Garry Hare card fiasco all over again..)

If this fax is authenic then I'm sure Hyperion already have it and that they will use it in the case when it is their turn to submit new evidence.

Agreed with that. If this is of any real value and the source wanted hyperion to have it the source could have faxed it to Hyperion. No need to send it to a forum and ask it to be spread around to make it "public" as it would become public anyway when it is submitted in the court cases.

Offcourse, wouldn't Hyperion need to proof then that the fax is indeed authentic and not made up ? Sounds impossible to do, as it seems somebody was leaking info out of a company and AFAIK that somebody can be sued over that.

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@Seer

Quote:

According to the source; Please spreed this document to Hyperion and other forums.

The original source is Garry Hare, not the guy who posted it in the forums, and Garry certainly did not ask in the forums for people to send it to Hyperion. I also doubt that this person got access to this document directly from Gary, in fact I also doubt that Garry himself sent this document to Hyperion.

Quote:

So ? The quality of the fax document is real poor, even for a fax. You can hardly read the dates on the header so any "photoshopped" artifacts would be impossible to detect.. If it is even possible to detect those on a 2bit image. (The Garry Hare card fiasco all over again..)

I agree that it's crap quality, if such a document is presented at court, then it has to be from a reliable source, rather than "we found this in the forums", otherwise the other party can just say "sorry we've never seen this, it must be fake". Having said that I'm 99% sure this document is authenic, It'd be interesting to know how this document got out from Garry.

@COBRA

The original source is Garry Hare, not the guy who posted it in the forums, and Garry certainly did not ask in the forums for people to send it to Hyperion. I also doubt that this person got access to this document directly from Gary, in fact I also doubt that Garry himself sent this document to Hyperion.

Indeed. That's why I'm questioning this.

I agree that it's crap quality, if such a document is presented at court, then it has to be from a reliable source, rather than "we found this in the forums", otherwise the other party can just say "sorry we've never seen this, it must be fake".

The only "reliable" sources would be Amiga Inc and KMOS right as they are the only ones who would have the first carbon copy. A receiced fax is to hard to proof to be authentic. (Scanned/faxed signatures are not legally binding/proof here in the netherlands anyway).

Having said that I'm 99% sure this document is authenic, It'd be interesting to know how this document got out from Garry.

Or how it was gotten from the one who Garry faxed it to in the first place.

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Seer

Quote:

The only "reliable" sources would be Amiga Inc and KMOS right as they are the only ones who would have the first carbon copy.

I'd say Garry would also be a reliable source, as he signed the documents himself, Hyperion could ask him as a witness in the case to prove that the document in question is authenic, in case AInc deny.

@Seer

Apex never claimed that the fax was send to him directly from Hare. He only said that "someone" sent it to him via Email.

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@COBRA

Well, KMOS = Garry Hare and everybody who work(s)(ed) for KMOS and thus could have access to the documents. (Or Itec.. or Amiga Inc.. Or Animo... Whatever..)

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Seer

Garry was the CEO of KMOS, but he left years ago, AFAIK he no longer has anything to do with KMOS/AInc? So he cannot be considered as part of the people who are currently suing Hyperion. More so because Garry also had a lawsuit with Amiga Inc. after he left.

@Zender

Well, I don't really know. The fact is that the new doc shows two very strong points for Hyperion to use against Amiga Inc: it states Amiga Inc. was insolvent, so insolvent that it could not even pay the legal proceedings to file for bankruptcy, and that Amiga Inc. transfers all rights from the AmigaOne partners agreement to Kmos without asking them first, and these points ARE UNDERSIGNED by McEven himself!, thus agreeing on this points to be valid.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

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@Seer

Quote:

Seer wrote: @alfa / thread ... How did he get this? If this is indeed from Garry, why was it not send to Hyperion first? Any proof the fax is authentic? [b]What good is it to forward it to public forums?[/u] ...

Hmmmmm - perhaps for the community not having to wait 2-4 weeks, until it's made available for the public?

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@Ferry

Quote:

both Hyperion and Eyetech should have been notified of any change in their agreement with Amiga

...and Genesi as well!

@COBRA

I think I misread you and as a result you misunderstood me.

Nevermind my last post to you. I think we agree on this anyway.

_________________
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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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Now all we need is that "Loan" documentation.
When did this loan take place? I'm sure this is why ITEC claims itself as the first secured creditor and why they forced Amiga Inc. to transfer everything to KMOS. Shouldn't all creditors to Amiga Inc. (W) have gotten a % of these rights and trademarks?

This is the smoking gun. Amiga Inc. was insolvent to the point that they could not file for bankruptcy.

Hyperion has a perpetual worldwide exclusive license to develop, market and distribute Amiga OS 4.

Edit:
I'm sure someone can verify the fax # for authenticity...

Last edited by Lou on 28-Aug-2007 at 02:45 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Edit: I'm sure someone can verify the fax # for authenticity...

I think that's the nub of it. I would presume that if this fax can be verified it can be submitted in court, if not ........

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@all
Quote:

COBRA wrote: @Tigger Actually, there's a bit more to it than that. This document is proof that Amiga Washington considered itself the owner of all Amiga intellectual property, including OS4, back in 2004, and by this they disprove of a transfer of such IP to ITEC in 2003. If they declare in 2004 that they are the owner of OS4, then they could not have approved a transfer of OS4 to ITEC in 2003. We know that there is no written approval for the transfer of IP to KMOS, they would have already presented it if they had one, and this document also proves that they did not approve of such a transfer to ITEC. Which means ITEC do not legally own any rights to OS4, even if they did pay the full sum of $25k. This alone kills ITEC's NY case altogether, if it is to proceed. Because in this case the OS4 contract remains with Amiga Washington and this document proves that Amiga Washington were so insolvent that they were even unable to pay the legal costs to file for bankruptcy, the insolvency clause of the contract grants AmigaOne partners a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide license to develop and distribute AmigaOS4.

Putting aside questions of legality of insolvency clauses and the like if this document is real on a base level dosen't it just mean Amiga/ITec/Kmos has mis-lead the community on where the IP has rested and at what times, let alone their contracted business partners at the time? The spirit of the insolvency clause seems clear, and this document seems to clearly show Amiga Washington still held all IP in 2004 and that Amiga was insolvent and would have even filed for official standing as bankrupt if it had even enough to do that. It seems to me that Hyperion morally deserves their perpetual license to Amiga OS and that the community deserves what would be the the then nearly certain resulting Amiga OS4 release for SAM.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Aug-2007 at 04:00 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Aug-2007 at 03:59 PM.

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@COBRA

Quote:

Garry was the CEO of KMOS, but he left years ago, AFAIK he no longer has anything to do with KMOS/AInc?

In Garry's own words to DaveyD and posted by DaveyD on AW October 20, 2005:

Quote:

Hi David - I don't know that there is any interest in the following. If you'd like (after removing my e-mail address) please feel free to post the following: Several months ago I terminated my association with Amiga, Inc. I am no longer affiliated with Amiga in any capacity. Best Regards, Garry Hare

source:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15634&forum=16

For purposes of comparing date with the lawsuit:
Quote:

October 21, 2005: Amiga Inc is now "formerly known as KMOS, Inc" and sues Garry Hare in a New York court for a long list of stated grievances, including:

source:
http://www.amiganews.de/de/news/AN-2006-10-00069-DE.html
translated:
http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1161197009.msg

#6

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: translated: http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1161197009.msg #6

Interesting...
So Tapul SA invested $1,000,000 hence Gary Hare should get paid....and...
...so Amino shares were bought for $240,000...is that the loan? Why didn't any of that money go to Bolton Peck???

@Tigger

Could you give relevant dates that would be important regarding insolvency?
I'm curious to know at what point in time you feel it would be relevant.

#6

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hello,

lots of new files, here:

http://news.justia.com/cases/amigahyperion/

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BTW, what you have done for the amiga today ????

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Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project