@bison

one important area are modern development tools. When I start to do something I am reminded of jumping back in the 90s. That is fun to a certain degree but it makes starting much harder. Today I normally use RAD Tools for development based on components. On Aros one developer is trying to port Lazarus and is really successful with it but it is only one developer with limited time. We would need in general professional quality tools with professional quality class libraries that hide most of the problems and make it easier for outsiders to start on the platform. Much more important than recompiling of some old software.

@TheBilgeRat

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TheBilgeRat wrote: Its true about Android. I don't know how it is in the EU, but any droid phone you pick up here is absolutely chock full of crap applications, sometimes 3 different layers of the same functional app. Sometimes the manufacturer makes it easy to root, sometimes they dont.

My galaxy tab 10" was so full of other Google crap applications then Android itself lying in the background. I had to turn the crap off or stop it from autoloading, it swallowed more battery than the screen.

Last edited by Hillbillylitre on 06-Jun-2015 at 12:23 AM.

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@amigadave

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amigadave wrote: @OlafS25 [quote]@cdimauro, I never stated an exact amount of what Trevor has spent on any particular project, only that it was many thousands of dollars, or tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. As Rob pointed out and I think Sundown confirmed, the amount that Trevor admitted in public was $200,000 for the R&D of the X1000, which was about double of what Trevor had originally thought it would be.

Does it mean that Trevor business plan was about to at least recover such $100,000 dollars of investment on R&D? Trevor is a business man, and I think that it should have considered that. I also think that he should have considered some gain from the operation.

However that's only my though on the subject.
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Hopefully the X5000 won't cost that much, but if it has any problems during it's design, it could easily match or exceed that amount. I think there have been 3 revisions to the Cyrus motherboard design already. I know that Trevor stated that the price of the X1000 did not include money to repay him for that R&D amount, and he seems to have actually lost money on any X1000's that were produced during the time when the price of the PA6T went up, but A-Eon and AmigaKit kept the price of the X1000 the same for the 2nd or 3rd production run of X1000's.

Same as above, and especially taking care of the X1000 experience, I think that he should have planned to do not fail the same way at least. And maybe in the long term recover from the initial loss, because it was supposed to have some gain from selling the new Cyrus boards.
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I just don't see how any Amiga users can make Trevor out to be the bad guy in any of this, just because he did not produce what THEY wanted. There is no way to make all of the Amiga users happy all the time, and there are just too many different Amiga inspired choices for any one product to satisfy all of the users. My philosophy is to use what makes me happy, but to support all Amiga inspired projects, both with my words, and with money, by purchasing products, or software, and by contributing to bounties. None of my comments were meant as a criticism of how Trevor chooses to spend his own money. In fact, my intention has been the complete opposite, and to support his freedom to choose what he decides to spend money on, or what to produce or support, even when I don't agree with his decisions.

Absolutely. I've nothing bad to say against Trevor. As a person, he seems to be a good one, at least from the few comments which I've read till now, and from the effort that he put to revival the post-Amiga community.

I think that he made wrong decisions, but that's MY personal opinion, and I never call and call him "bad" for that reason. Doesn't make sense. At the end, he can do it whatever he wants with HIS money.

@itix

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itix wrote: @BrianHoskins Quote: Contrast that to Apple devices (particularly their phone OS) where they wrap their users in cotton wool and tell them what they can and can't do with the OS, for "their own safety". Apple is very restrictive with their software policy but their iOS is very smooth and responsive. I cant say same about Android what is sluggish even on decent phone. Or Windows Phone what is good software to reboot your phone. In fact I was quite surprised how bad Windows Phone OS is when I was forced to downgrade from Samsung S3 to Lumia. For developers Windows is great choice. But the OS and especially Windows Phone OS looks like it was done by engineers and nerds for engineers and nerds.

Honestly I'm very happy as a Windows Phone 7.8 user, except that, as one of the first customers, Microsoft decided to do not allow me to upgrade to WP 8+.

And I'm more than happy as a developer, because when I wrote an application for Windows Phone 7, I absolutely enjoyed everything: from the Silverlight framework, to the XAML language to define the GUI, to Expression Blend to customize widgets, till the C# language (albeit I'm a Python fan).

With and Android app I had a much worse experience. Java was awful compared to C#. Creating GUIs was a nightmare. And the Android framework is a badly designed piece of $!%? (just one thing which is worth to recall: the View class is "just" the usual "God class").

Regarding iOS, fortunately I had not chance to start, but I already studied the language, and Objective-C is really horrible. At the time, it also required manual memory management, which is an archaic programming model. I know that from some time it wasn't required, and that there's a new language, but I never had the chance to take a look (and, honestly, I do NOT want).
For the widget/GUI I only had a look at the framework, and it appeared well constructed (compared to Android), albeit I recall some headaches for updating panels et similia (but it's long time now, and might be a different scenario).

@bison

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bison wrote: That seems like a good idea. Or maybe an Amiga Compute Stick, similar to what Intel just introduced for Windows and Ubuntu.

Then just use Intel's Compute Stick. Maybe with WinUAE which is directly executed after the boot, instead of the usual desktop manager.

@cdimauro

I was thinking more along the lines of a Minimig on a stick. Turn your TV into an Amiga 500 and play a few games. It would be fun, if not very practical, not to mention difficult to implement.

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Quote:

Maybe with WinUAE which is directly executed after the boot, instead of the usual desktop manager.

I just tried something similar in Linux Mint by executing FS-UAE from my ~/.xsession file in lieu of a window manager. So I boot up to a GDM and log in, which takes me straight to FS-UAE. Its kind of cool, but... I essentially have to boot twice: first the host system, and then AmigaOS.

Last edited by bison on 06-Jun-2015 at 05:00 PM.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@bison: if you want to use multiple systems it's fine. But if you want to have a system only for running Amiga stuff, you can configure one of such pens to immediately boot your (configured) environment.

Pens like the Compute Stick have enough processing power to emulate even an high-end Amiga system (with plenty of RAM also).

@cdimauro

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cdimauro wrote: @amigadave [quote] amigadave wrote: @OlafS25 [quote] Does it mean that Trevor business plan was about to at least recover such $100,000 dollars of investment on R&D? Trevor is a business man, and I think that it should have considered that. I also think that he should have considered some gain from the operation.

If you have a long term view of things and time then you can add more products and make more money. No one goes into business with the idea they can't make money. The fact that the Amiga platform is next to dead and the users left won't leave should tell you that there is still some money in this and he has a captive audience because they won't go anywhere else and there is virtually little competition because it is an almost dead platform.

The $9 computer raised over $2 million on Kickstarter and there are probably more $9 computer users right (close to 40,000 of them) now than Amiga users. If you can't make money at computers then you don't have a plan and you couldn't sell ice cream in the Sahara.

Last edited by Chuckt on 06-Jun-2015 at 07:57 PM.
Last edited by Chuckt on 06-Jun-2015 at 07:57 PM.

@OlafS25

You will never have modern native developing tools as long as the OS does not support modern features, it is really that simple.

Modern development has requirements that none of the current Amigoid systems can offer, to port anything to Amigoid systems is to port the software back in time, and it is far from trivial. For example all networking code related to DNS lookups has to be rewritten to support old functions tha have been deprecated for more than a decade.

Last edited by kolla on 06-Jun-2015 at 09:50 PM.

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@kolla

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You will never have modern native developing tools as long as the OS does not support modern features, it is really that simple.

What is the definition of "modern native developing tools"?

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Modern development has requirements that none of the current Amigoid systems can offer, to port anything to Amigoid systems is to port the software back in time, and it is far from trivial.

Is it? There is of course the dependency hell (app x requires lib y what requires lib z what in order depends on more libraries), however they can be ported over. Often it is trivial, sometimes not, sometimes you must add Amiga specific code in there.

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For example all networking code related to DNS lookups has to be rewritten to support old functions tha have been deprecated for more than a decade.

DNS lookups are trivial.

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