Hi everyone,

Having read a few threads on here and a few other sites over last few days, I am getting the impression that some recent software packages are being let down by next to no installation/poor ways to install them. Am i getting the right impression?

If so I would like to help out.

I am currently reading up on writing installers on the Amiga (mainly using the version of installer used on OS3.5/3.9), is the version shipped with OS4.0+ still same/simillar? (Im sure I read somewhere about Python being used as the installer or something???).

I am also soon to purchase an OS4.1 Sam460 system (but not just for this one reason!) and is GoldED still available for purchase? (I have read thats its a good helpfull program for writing installers)

Although I will be novice at the start I feel that with time, I could write decent installers for peoples software if they wanted me too (F.O.C of course! I need another hobby).

If everyone can let me know their thoughts then that would be great.

Cheers.

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Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

@Amiboy

let me point you and others to this thread about how a GUI based installer generation utility would benefit both devs and users.

once I get my act together and create a bounty this would help lots, and if anyone has any other ideas please make them known.

note: this is not about the features of installer (old or new) just a way of having an installer script being generated for you.

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@Amiboy

Well done. The OS4 version of Installer is the same as v43.3 with a few minor changes (the database commands, and something else I forget), new commands added for v44+ (OS3.5) are not present.

There is a Python-based installer too, but nobody knows how to use it, so i'ts best ignored for now.

You might also like to read my little guide on utilising Installer from AmiUpdate AutoInstall scripts: http://www.unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk/?pg=autoinstaller

(I have another one on installing SObjs and a half-written tutorial for the no-idea-what-happened-to-it OS4 Programming Guide if you're interested)

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@Amiboy

Well, your impression is not entirely right There are some older packages (and very few decent ones) that "feature" no or a poor install script. Some of those were responsible for the MUI problems discussed recently.

For the time being, your offer would be great for people unable (or too lazy ) to write a good installer script. Maybe some older packages which are still maintained could get a usable installer script by you, instead of one "from the vaults".

I think that, at a certain point in time, GUI driven installer script generators will do the trick.

The main "problem" here is simply lack of good development support tools, like an installer script generator package (and some other ones, GUI generators for example). So a bounty for such tools is a good idea.

@Chris_Y

Thank you :)

I might just take you up on the offer of the guide for SObjs and the OS4 programming guide. Ill probably contact you via PM.

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

@whose

Quote:

Well, your impression is not entirely right There are some older packages (and very few decent ones) that "feature" no or a poor install script. Some of those were responsible for the MUI problems discussed recently.

Right, I understand the situation a lot better now.

Quote:

I think that, at a certain point in time, GUI driven installer script generators will do the trick.

Given that other people are looking at programming GUI install script generators at this moment (their is a discussion on amigans.net as pointed out by Derfs) and not as many programs may need a install script as I first thought, is it actually worth me doing aything?

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

@thread

It depends on the complexity of the installer.

A windows Installer I used once, was simple : right click a folder and it creates a self extracting archive. Once clicked installed at a default location.

clicking the icon executed "Setup.exe -SILENTINSTALL"

wereas just Setup.exe installs with default Install path in place, but lets you change path or continue. done.

One does not 'need' a complex script, if the installer is intelligent.
Lua script would be great too.

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@Amiboy Quote:

not as many programs may need a install script as I first thought, is it actually worth me doing aything?

I would say YES, given that:

Quote:

Given that other people are looking at programming GUI install script generators at this moment (their is a discussion on amigans.net as pointed out by Derfs) and

Nothing may come of those discussions, as often happens with "wouldn't it be good if" discussions. (I don't mean to say anything about the people involved in this particular discussion, but rather only what tends to happen in general.)

Another way of saying this is: If you have interest in doing something, THEN DO IT! Other people may loose interest in their own project, leaving only yours. So if you don't start it then we may have nothing...

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@asymetrix

So the Amiga installer is your way It sports all options necessary to do a "simple" or "complex" install, given that the software developer supplies a script according to this needs.

Thats often the problem, some bedroom programmers dont want to write such install scripts, but choose the "Novice user" way of installing to a default path with default options (except the default of using the copylib command, which leads to new library versions being overwritten by old ones, a very common problem in the past. I never understood why it is/was so hard for some people to use copylib where necessary...).

@Amiboy:

Dont ask, go on! If theres somebody who is in need of your help, give him! If I should release a piece of software with more complex installation needs and theres still no install script generator available, I will ask you, too.

Until now, I always made things which didnt need an installer. Just unpack somewhere and there you go. Sometimes the "PROGDIR:" option is a nice thing. If you use it, that is

Edit: I forgot to mention a thing that wasnt mentioned in the discussion on amigans, AFAIK. You should learn to extend the installer scripts regarding the library versions needed compared against the versions available. Sometimes software needs a specific version of a library and breaks with newer ones. For these cases a library should be copied to PROGDIR:Libs and the software itself should give an option to use this path for library opening. Ok, this wouldnt help with older software packages, but I think that developers should obey some rules in developing and packaging of their software now.

Last edited by whose on 07-Sep-2011 at 12:21 AM.

@Chris_Y

Quote:

You might also like to read my little guide on utilising Installer from AmiUpdate AutoInstall scripts: http://www.unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk/?pg=autoinstaller (I have another one on installing SObjs and a half-written tutorial for the no-idea-what-happened-to-it OS4 Programming Guide if you're interested)

Please post what you have on OS4coding.net, I started doing the same.

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Yes, go for it! It can't do any harm to have more than one piece of software for any particular task, just in case development of any of them stalls... I was thinking of writing one a while ago for OS3 (which would probably work under OS4 too) - perhaps I'll revive that idea...

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@Amiboy

Well, I donnot know how to write installer scripts, but GoldED aka Cubic IDE probably does a great job. I have got it here and used it for ARexx stuff.
However my proggy iBatch comes with a plain DOS installer script, if you are interested we could discuss the replacement with a decent installer script. Main task here would be to check wether libs are existant, and if not get them according to user needs and platform (OS3.x / OS4.x) from the Internet.
From time to time I also release some plugins, which can be used as standalone or together with iBatch. A installerscript could also help !

contact me via ibatch at web fullstop de !

regards Gero

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@Amiboy

Quote:

Having read a few threads on here and a few other sites over last few days, I am getting the impression that some recent software packages are being let down by next to no installation/poor ways to install them. Am i getting the right impression?

Yes I think you are! And lately I've been getting very vocal on this subject.

The OS packages are starting to use Python. But the standard installer is fine, well if you don't mind having a lisp. That's it's language.

But an AmigaDOS script would be fine as well. For example here's some old skeleton I wrote for installing a commodity. It demonstrates supporting different OS versions, copying files with error catching and displaying any errors in neat little requesters.

;Install script for NewCommodity
;$VER: 1.0

FailAt 21
Resident C:RequestFile
Resident C:Copy

Version >NIL: VERSION=39
If WARN
Copy NewCommodity.guide.WB2.icon T:NewCommodity.guide.info
Else
Copy NewCommodity.guide.WB3.icon T:NewCommodity.guide.info
EndIf

RequestFile >ENV:NCDir DRAWER="SYS:WBStartup" TITLE="Select directory for NewCommodity program" DRAWERSONLY
If WARN
Skip Cleanup
EndIf
Copy >NIL: NewCommodity NewCommodity.info $NCDir
If WARN
SetENV NCError program
Skip Error
EndIf

RequestFile >ENV:NCDir DRAWER=HELP: TITLE="Select directory for NewCommodity guide" DRAWERSONLY
If WARN
Skip Cleanup
EndIf
Copy >NIL: NewCommodity.guide T:NewCommodity.guide.info $NCDir
If WARN
SetENV NCError guide
Skip Error
EndIf

Lab Cleanup
UnSetENV NCDir
Delete T:NewCommodity.guide.info QUIET
Resident C:RequestFile REMOVE
Resident C:Copy REMOVE
Quit

Lab Error
If EXISTS C:RequestChoice
RequestChoice >NIL: TITLE="NewCommodity Installer" BODY="Error copying $NCError" GADGETS="Exit"
Else
Echo "Error copying $NCError" TO "CON:////NewCommodity Installer/CLOSE/NOSIZE/WAIT"
EndIf
UnSetENV NCError
Skip Cleanup BACK

@thread

Thanks to everyone for all the encouragement on this, with the price drop from AmigaKit for the Sam460 systems.

I will hopefully be able to do something soon.

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

GemRB could do with a nice installer, since a user might want to install and remove a game multiple times (several CDs per title).

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Praise seitan.

@Amiboy

(Im sure I read somewhere about Python being used as the installer or something???)...If everyone can let me know their thoughts then that would be great.

OS4.1 is installed by Python! The problem with Python is the learning curve; it requires a bit of study and knowing it's DOS ways. If you use the PYGame module, you can write nice games and system apps. I became addicted to PYGame. It's a very powerful language.

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I have created a project on openamiga.org for the Installer script generation utility if anyone wants to have a look.

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@Amiboy

http://www.magham.se/Installer_script.pdf

Try now

Last edited by MH2 on 13-Sep-2011 at 10:16 AM.

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@MH2

Thanks, but I cant seem to get that link to work with either IE or FF.

Can anyone else download this file??

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

@Amiboy

Download yes, open no.

_________________
: AmigaOneXE (unmod.) 750FX/512 MB +stuff & AmigaOS 4.(0|1)
: A1200/68060&96MB/SCSI/EM1200-Voodoo3 & OS 3.5
: A500/1MB
: Pegasos (ff) 512 MB & MorphOS
Praise seitan.