@MikeB

Quote:

I think the PS3 sales may well be most difficult for them to track as it's not only sold at just gaming orientated shops but also at more consumer electronics orientated retailers

This this any different then the Wii or 360? There are a few Sony stores in the USA but that's about the only place I can think of off hand that don't sell all 3 consoles. There may be others but I'm coming up blank. Are retailers just selling 1 of the 3 consoles in Europe?

@BrianK

Like I stated before, there are promotions for free PS3s together with FullHD Sony HDTVs bought from any electronics retailer:



You were upset about this, but free HD players or digital receivers HDTV combo promotions are quite common over here. But IMO a free PS3 is the most sweet deal, IMO kudos to Sony for offering such deals.

A similar deal is available for Australia:
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/LCD/E6E8P5M5

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Dec-2007 at 10:17 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 24-Dec-2007 at 10:16 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Are retailers just selling 1 of the 3 consoles in Europe?

In Sweden most retailers (IMO above 90%) sell all models or atleast two of them.

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@BrianK

As to why some do not sell the others.. Some home theater specific stores have begun
to sell PS3 only because it has gotten great reviews as a HD movie player in swedish
press. And they will not start sell the other because they often do not want to be seen
as a games store. They of course don't sell PS3 games either.

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@MikeB

Most recent Toshiba laptops are being shipped with HD-DVD enabled optical drive as standard.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/19/toshiba-brings-hd-dvd-to-mainstream-satellite-and-qosmio-laptops/

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Dec-2007 at 11:29 AM.

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Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Hammer I know, but NPD is probably the most reliable 3rd party source.

Only with the sample source context.

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@Samwel
Quote:

In Sweden most retailers (IMO above 90%) sell all models or atleast two of them.

Thanks Samwel. I was trying to understand what % of retailers exclusively sell the PS3 and this helps. In the USA high end AV stores are difficult to find. Well, in so far as major metropolitan areas might have a couple but the other 90% of the nation depends upon big chain retailers such as Best Buy, Target, and Wal-Mart. I'm sure a few carry Sony stuff, but since Sony has their own stores I know some see it as selling the competitor's product and therefore won't carry anything Sony.

@Hammer

Quote:

Only with the sample source context.

Of course, this has been discussed within various other threads. But NPD's samples deal with a far larger percentage of retailers than VGChartz does for the US, that's why their estimated figures are considered to be more reliable, also according to VGChartz staff.

For absolute PS3 figures, only Sony can provide exact data for how many units they have sold so far to retailers.

@BrianK

OK, I have been to various consumer electronics shops in San Francisco and Detroit, at least here in the Netherlands they are very common, but the biggest ones like Media Markt sell all three consoles.

@MikeB
Do you honestly think you get the ps3 for free? I am 99% sure that the ps3 is more or less bundled into the price as well. I am sure you could get the same exact tv for cheaper at a different store without the ps3.

@Tomas

Like I said it doesn't matter at which retailer you bought the HDTV or HD projector, you can claim your free PS3 from Sony. You only pay for postage and get a PS3, 2 games, 2 Sixaxis controllers and a Blu-Ray movie for free. The deal still lasts until the 31th of December.

HDTV prices have come down rather than up, so....

@Tomas

If you already own a PS3, you can opt to get a 200 Euro refund instead. But I think the PS3 pack is much sweeter as it's worth 600 Euro at retail.

The NYT bestowed Mass Effect with the honor for its "focus on character development, personal growth and moral tension, all fueled by a graphics system created to evoke emotional empathy." as game of the year. Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction was honored for being the shining star on the PS3 and BioShock was named the "best newcomer."

DMC4 360 vs PS3. Versions seem the same to me. If you own both systems just buy the one for your favorite controller.


@MikeB
You said you haven't tried Mass Effect and thought you wouldn't like the game due to frame drops. I'm about 2.5 hours into the game and the frame drops appear to be while FMV is playing and the next section is loading. So, far gameplay itself hasn't been impacted.

@BrianK

Actually what I stated is that I think I will prefer Mass Effect (if rock solid at least) or BioShock over Halo 3.

Eurogamer: "Although it underpins the game with all sorts of excellent ideas that ought to make it a deeper, more intelligent and immersive experience, the simple truth is that the minute-to-minute combat simply isn't as intense and involving as you'd expect from a game in 2007. Throw in some grumbles about the somewhat unoptimised state of the frame-rate, texture pop-in and v-syncing terrors, and it's a game that just falls short of our expectations."

IGN: "The framerate in Mass Effect is as erratic as they come. This isn't something that happens occasionally. It happens incessantly. The game also has issues loading textures in when you enter a new environment. Flat, boring scenery gets filled in with details piece by piece for a few moments each time you load in. "

IMO a high profile exclusive like this should be running rock solid, but overall the game sounds promising!

MikeB wrote:

Quote:

According to VGChartz Italy has joined the list of countries where the PS3 has already overtaken total XBox 360 sales (the PS2 still outsold the PS3 though), not bad considering the 1 year and 5 months headstart for the 360!

Quote:

For various smaller European countries the PS3 has outsold the total 360 install base, though we only have reliable data for some larger countries, Portugal, Spain and Italy are backed up by GfK data, of the larger European countries next up will likely be Germany early January 2008, here PS3 games are already significantly outperforming 360 sales.

Correction, according to VGChartz total PS3 sales in Germany has overtaken the 360 install base already!

Next up may be France, VGChartz has undertracked PS3 sales for the country (but unknown by how much), stay tuned....

@MikeB

Quote:

Correction, according to VGChartz total PS3 sales in Germany has overtaken the 360 install base already!

It seems like people are pretty rabid about this "sales" stuff. Can I ask why. What I mean is, say the PS3 has .5% more market for the next 5 years until the "next" consoles come out... or say the 360 has .5% more market until then, I mean how does that enhance your enjoyability? If it so important to the enjoyability the PS2 or Wii is the system to buy correct? In 'current' daily sales those 2 are blowing the others out of the water. So why so much argument over it. Could some shed some light on it for me?

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@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @jiyong Quote: Yes, you were corrected before, but that doesn't change anything to my observation, right? The observation itself no. The contention isn't your observation. The contention at this point is it now appears you are attempting to justify your snide and rude comments as simply an observation.

Come on Brian, wasn't I clear I am quite "aggressive" with you because of this observation? You are the one that is shifting the discussion, not me.

Quote:

Quote: And yes, I stand by that smaller blanket statement. And I would say I'm not the only one that noticed this. Though I do find it a bit amusing that you accost someone for not doing research and it now ends up that you were wrong on the point and yourself committed the same crime, eg didn't do the research.

Hold your horses Brian. This statement is so wrong, that I can't believe you actually wrote it. Yes, you were correct Tretton said sold through to the consumer, but claiming I didn't do research? A lot of articles I saw were talking about shipped and the ones that use the word "sold" usually are not clear if it's sold to retail or sold to consumer.

I also have the suspicion you didn't do much research before I posted. At one point you even don't seem to care whether it is shipped or sold and only later you link to the Tretton interview.

Quote:

Quote: On the other hand I haven't seen that Hirai was as explicit as Tretton was, So your concept now is that the problem is that different parts of Sony's Management team is inconsistent with each other? Various gaming and computer sites they've taken Hirari's statements to mean sold, this is but one example. Also one of the early early posts from MikeB was the issue he had that Microsoft counted sold as shipped and how he prefers Sony doing it right counting sold as sold.

As you have pointed out on many occasions, it wouldn't be the first time Sony had to come back on certain statements. I can't remember if Sony stated they switched from shipped to sold, but perhaps MikeB can comment on that.

It seems the bulk of the media is not really aware of that (if it's true) and it also shows in the Tretton interview. When you want me to believe Hirai explicitly said sold to consumer, at least point me to an article that says so and don't point me to an article that tells me this:

"The U.S.-based colleague of Mr. Hirai, Jack Tretton, who is chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) confirmed the words of the head of Sony’s video game group and even said that 11 million PS3 game consoles will be sold through (to end-users), not sold in (to retailers), by the end of the fiscal year."

The part in bold only refers to Tretton, not Hirai!
I have said this before Brian, learn to read...
You could say I'm rude here, but I would say you are waisting my time here.

Quote:

Quote: You have failed to do your homework on some occasions. And it seems that it happens more often when it is bad news for Sony. That was my point. Your point might be valid. However, when you're wrong on the evidence it doesn't make your point at all convincing. It appeared that you commited the same mistake you were calling others out on. tsk,tsk. Again welcome to the club!

Yes, I was wrong on the evidence when it concerns Tretton, but that doesn't change anything to my point, although you try to claim otherwise. Again, from the bulk of the articles I saw on the internet, it wasn't clear if it was shipped or sold. So I committed the mistake of not doing my homework? Come on Brian, open your eyes.

Quote:

You stated the # was shipped not sold. I said that's easy to do overfill the pipeline. What I mean by this maps to your reasoning - manufacture a quantity of consoles larger then the quantity they can sell. I argue it's the same thing just reworded. Looks to me like you might love Sony to the point wher eyou interject emotions into emotionless statements.

Just to be a bit pedantic here, I didn't say it, I was asking it. I was telling you I couldn't find it in the articles I had read. Be careful Brian, stick to the facts.

You didn't reword my statement. I wasn't saying Sony would overfill the pipeline. I was "joking" (noted the smiley?) they could ship a lot to Korea and India, as I had the suspicion you would come up with some overfilled pipeline comment. Guess what? You did. How predictable...

Looks to me you hate Sony to the point where you interject emotions into emotionless statements.

Quote:

Visuals of the PS3 are improving. Uncharted looks great, as I've said. If I recall my Lair review was low in the 5-6 range but again I said the visuals look great. So we agree visuals look great. But giving Lair a 5 is unimpressive in my book. I'd rather play a 9-10 with slightly worse visuals then a 5 with great one's. Heck Super Mario Bro series are highly repeatitive and have crappy visuals, eg not photographic quality, but most are great games which I'd rather play then Lair. I think everyone with a PS3 should try Lair. But, I encourage them to rent it, do not buy.

Hmmm, this doesn't match your statement that Sony hasn't shown the potential of the PS3. Not really consistent Brian.

Sony (well, perhaps we should say the game developers) has shown the potential of the PS3. I'm surprised you actually talk like that, when you claim the 360 has the better hardware and dev support but the PS3 seems to be on par with more and more 3rd party titles. So judging from those statements, Sony is already over delivering.

But guess what, I wouldn't be surprised the PS3 will show even more, where I have my doubts if the 360 can keep up. Just to be clear, does this mean that every game will look better on the PS3 compared to the 360? Probably not, as it takes some more effort to push the PS3 to its limits and we have seen that some devs are not willing to put much effort into producing a proper engine for the PS3 (for now).

@MikeB
Ah ok. I missed that part.

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

What I mean is, say the PS3 has .5% more market for the next 5 years until the "next" consoles come out... or say the 360 has .5% more market until then, I mean how does that enhance your enjoyability? If it so important to the enjoyability the PS2 or Wii is the system to buy correct? In 'current' daily sales those 2 are blowing the others out of the water. So why so much argument over it. Could some shed some light on it for me?

I think it's very unlikely that the PS3 will outsell the 360 by merely .5% for the upcoming 5 years. With the high profile games like Gran Turismo 5, Final Fantasy XIII, Killzone 2, Metal Gear Solid 4, etc coming I see little chance for this to happen.

And yes, having a good market share matters, just look at the PS2 and compare this to how the GameCube and XBox are being supported nowadays.

The PS2 and Wii IMO are of less relevance with regard to future games I like to play, this for different reasons. The PS2 will continue to do well in 2008, but after this I think the platform will fade away. The Wii also isn't powerful enough to do the games I love to play, Super Stardust HD just has too much going on at once for it to handle, multiplatform games I am interested in won't do very well on the platform as the platform is dominated by small kids and females, the guys (aged 16-40) owning the system likely own a PC, 360 or PS3 as well and it just makes more sense to buy a BioShock, Oblivion or Unreal Tournament for much higher specced systems.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing Wii-mote games like Wii Sports with my kid sister, but there's no chance for the console to be my main gaming system and I think most guys feel the same way. Also IMO Wii games so far look pretty crap on especially HDTVs, the HDTV market penetration is on the uprise and is of importance to me.

IMO for this generation it's especially important the PS3 sells well, this to make sure 3rd party developers truly start to tap into the PS3's unique and powerful feature set (Blu-Ray space, 7.1 audio, SPE perfomance, Sixaxis usage were it can enhance the gameplay, etc). The early Atari ST to Amiga ports offered little to write home about, sometimes the ports were worse depite the better gaming potential.

Last edited by MikeB on 25-Dec-2007 at 01:41 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 25-Dec-2007 at 01:33 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 25-Dec-2007 at 01:28 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 25-Dec-2007 at 01:18 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Actually what I stated is that I think I will prefer Mass Effect (if rock solid at least) or BioShock over Halo 3.

RPG over a FPS? Sure if that's the type of game play one preferes.

I agree it's sad that this game isn't rock solid. So far the game's alright but people tell me it gets much better.