@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Amazon was out of their MGS4/80GB PS3 bundle stock in a matter of 5 minutes just before their server crapped out. There's a high demand for the 80 PS3 due to the PS2 graphics chip being included. MGS4 on the 360? http://my.break.com/Content/view.aspx?ContentID=516244

I guess you didn't hear about the stock shortages with regards to WiiFit since launch...

@BrianK

...more about MS and DS...
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-hopes-ds-helps-viva-pi-ata-reach-broader-audience
[snipet]
Quote:

Despite the fact that Nintendo is a rival in the console war, Microsoft respects the company's DS handheld and plans to take advantage of the system's audience. "They see DS as a very viable platform," Joe Humfrey an engineer for UK development studio Rare, told our sister site Eurogamer during a visit to play the upcoming Viva Piñata DS game. Since acquiring Rare in 2002, Microsoft has allowed the studio to maintain a handheld development team working on GBA and DS titles although it has not published any of them itself. Rare has even made one game directly for Nintendo during that time - last year's Diddy Kong Racing DS.

@Lou

Thanks Lou. Microsoft did buy the handheld company Sidekick. It'll be interesting to see if they make anything of this. My guess is they'll integrate the SideKick gaming options into the Microsoft phone services. In addition they talked about Live Services on your cell. I think they know they need to reach out into handheld devices for gaming. DS is one likely area for inital outreach.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Thanks Lou. Microsoft did buy the handheld company Sidekick. It'll be interesting to see if they make anything of this. My guess is they'll integrate the SideKick gaming options into the Microsoft phone services. In addition they talked about Live Services on your cell. I think they know they need to reach out into handheld devices for gaming. DS is one likely area for inital outreach.

Or perhaps with the 360 hardware debacle (and to an extent ZUNE), they are realizing they are better off as a services/software company rather than hardware provider. Buying an established brand is one way to get 'in' with the right foot...and supporting the established hardware (DS) is probably better than creating a new brand to compete against it...

The PSP took a hit today:
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/06/11/ready-at-dawn-talks-abandoning-the-psp-piracy-and-being-origin/
Ready At Dawn also did the Wii port of Okami, which got great reviews. Perhaps their future projects will include titles for the Wii...

Also, CAPCOM had this to say about future Wii development:
Quote:

"Honestly, I think the lack of AAA titles also has a lot to do with a lot of the 3rd parties simply being caught with their pants down. Triple A take a lot of time to develop; Many years in fact. For them to have been announced/released by now, it would have meant that they were in development/planning before/shortly after the Wii was released. However, nobody, besides Nintendo, expected the Wii sales to be so strong, and anyone who did should be buying lottery tickets. However, the good news is, now that the industry has seen the rise of the Wii, I'm sure many plans and budgets have been shifted and adjusted, and triple A titles should be in their pipeline (though not ready to be announced). This means soon, you should be flooded with the titles from the franchises you're familiar with, and ones that aren't just spinoffs."

Perhaps now we will see RE5 announced for the Wii at some point... Along with other titles from other developers and publishers who for too long have been dismissing the Wii...

Last edited by Lou on 11-Jun-2008 at 05:31 PM.

http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/06/10/is-the-gpu-holding-the-ps3-back/
Quote:

GTA IV, quite famously, was delayed from being a 2007 release to being a 2008 release because of problems Rockstar were having with the Playstation 3 version of the game. And now Codemasters admit that whilst the Microsoft Xbox 360 version of Grid runs at a solid 30 fps the Playstation 3 version doesn’t. These are just two of the latest of a long stream of disappointments with the comparative performance of the PS3. What is happening here?

This is what i have been saying even before the ps3 was released as well.. A powerful cpu wont help much if you have an old and outdated graphic card that is the bottleneck.
Take for example when i upgraded my pc not long ago.. I put in a significantly faster cpu and better motherboard, but kept my old 7800gt graphic card and there really was not much of an improvement when it came to gaming, which is simply because my gfx is holding it back.
So why is this not true with the ps3?

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Hammer Quote: Besides Blu-Ray issue, define these "technical shortcomings". Most importantly no default harddrive and far less horsepower. Quote: Atm PS3 haven’t shown to be superior compared to X360. Despite the 360's development kit headstart, take a look at Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction or even the cheap PSN title like Super Stardust HD.

And why can these games not be done on the xbox 360? GT5 did not impress me at all, as it ran both jerky, had vsync issues and ran on a low fps. Ratchet looked good, but could easily have been done on the xbox as well.

@Tomas

Quote:

And why can these games not be done on the xbox 360?

- Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, too many polygons 1080p at solid 60 FPS.
- Super Stardust HD: Too much stuff going on simultaneously at 1080p 60 FPS.
- Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and 60 FPS Ratchet & Clank: TOD. Too much high quality data being streamed (compaere with the far less impressive Mass Effect on the 360 with texture pop-up overload and significant framerate issues). Both titles make excellent use of the default harddrive and benefit well from 25 GB discs.

Quote:

as it ran both jerky, had vsync issues and ran on a low fps

Solid 60 FPS in-game, read some reviews. Maybe an issue with the HDTV (slow refresh) you were using?

Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jun-2008 at 01:23 PM.

@Tomas

Quote:

Tomas wrote: @MikeB Quote: Despite the 360's development kit headstart, take a look at Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction or even the cheap PSN title like Super Stardust HD. And why can these games not be done on the xbox 360? GT5 did not impress me at all, as it ran both jerky, had vsync issues and ran on a low fps. Ratchet looked good, but could easily have been done on the xbox as well.

That's interesting, there was a fanboy here claiming it (GT5 Prologue) ran at a rock solid 60fps...


Interesting week in Japan, last week:
01. Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit (Bandai-Namco, PS3) - 92,000 / New
02. Mysterious Dungeon: Fuurai no Shiren 3 (Sega, Wii) - 59,000 / New
03. Powerful Pro Baseball Portable 3 (Konami, PSP) - 43,000 / 159,000
04. Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo, Wii) - 39,000 / 1,406,000
05. DS Misa Yamamura Suspense: Kyoto Murder Files (Tecmo, DS) - 38,000 / New
06. Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (Capcom, PSP) - 35,000 / 2,177,000
07. Wii Fit (Nintendo, Wii) - 34,000 / 2,190,000
08. Ninja Gaiden 2 (Tecmo, Xbox 360) - 25,000 / New
09. Family Trainer (Bandai-Namco, Wii) - 15,000 / 59,000
10. DS Beautiful Letter Training (Nintendo, DS) - 15,000 / 267,000
11. Valhalla Knights 2 (Marvelous Entertainment, PSP)
12. Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit (Bandai-Namco, Xbox 360)
13. Taiko Drum Master DS: Seven Island Adventure (Bandai-Namco, DS)
14. Empty Space Training (Benesse, DS)
15. Endless Frontier: Super Robot Wars OG Saga (Bandai-Namco, DS)
16. Wii Sports (Nintendo, Wii)
17. We're Fossil Diggers (Nintendo, DS)
18. Wii Play (Nintendo, Wii)
19. Pokémon Ranger: Batonnage (Pokémon, DS)
20. Link's Crossbow Training (Nintendo, Wii)
21. Mario Kart DS (Nintendo, DS)
22. Riddle Training (Benesse, DS)
23. 99 Tears (Bandai-Namco, DS)
24. Front Mission 2089: Border of Madness (Square-Enix, DS)
25. Battalion Wars 2 (Nintendo, Wii)
26. Mana Khemia 2: The Fallen School and the Alchemists (Gust, PS3)
27. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Nintendo, Wii)
28. Tottado! Yowiko's Deserted Island Life (Bandai-Namco, DS)
29. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 (Ubisoft, PS3)
30. New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo, DS)

Last edited by Lou on 12-Jun-2008 at 01:26 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Tomas Quote: And why can these games not be done on the xbox 360? - Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, too many polygons 1080p at solid 60 FPS. - Super Stardust HD: Too much stuff going on simultaneously at 1080p 60 FPS. - Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and 60 FPS Ratchet & Clank: TOD. Too much high quality data being streamed (compaere with the far less impressive Mass Effect on the 360 with texture pop-up overload and significant framerate issues). Both titles make excellent use of the default harddrive and benefit well from 25 GB discs.

Oh come on, Super Stardust HD...
As for the HDD, what's the point of 25GB discs if every game worth anything install 4-6GB of data onto the HDD? After about 9 games, what happens then? Do you swap in another HDD? For that matter, perhaps multi-disc 360 games should offer an install option so that it can be run from one disc... Where is the BR advantage there? I don't see it.

Quote:

Quote: as it ran both jerky, had vsync issues and ran on a low fps Solid 60 FPS in-game, read some reviews. Maybe an issue with the HDTV (slow refresh) you were using?

Have you downloaded it yourself? He has. Perhaps the demo copy that went to reviewers has some settings turned down in order to boost framerate? Having reviewers review a version that is slightly different than the final one seems to happen alot in the land of video games in general. Developers do this to get good reviews...they deliver an unfinished build and promise features. The final product has these promised features but now it's buggy... This isn't a PS3 thing, it's an industry thing...

@Lou

Quote:

Oh come on, Super Stardust HD...

Just play it and you will see. It's an awesome game and technically excellent. Super fast paced (know that I am ranked amongst the top), over 20,000 active objects with physics and collisions and over 100,000 particles simulated and drawn @60fp.

There's still a lot of headroom though, for their next PS3 game they will use the SPEs to do some stuff now done by the RSX, they anticipate this will result into a 50% additional graphics performance by itself.

Quote:

As for the HDD, what's the point of 25GB discs if every game worth anything install 4-6GB of data onto the HDD?

What the hell are you talking about? Uncharted: Drake's Fortune does not have any install and sports no in-game loading times at all! Ratchet & Clank: TOD only installs a few hundred MBs of data, less 1/10th the 4GB figure you claim.

Both games use the harddrive as cache.

Quote:

Where is the BR advantage there? I don't see it.

- Far more storage space for high quality audio and textures. (less need to sacrifice quality or game lenght / content diversity)
- Constant predictable streaming speed, look at Naughty Dog's first PS3 game.
- No disc scratching with BD discs (note the many 360 disc scratching reports)
- Less drive noise production, due to the much higher density on disc for similar read speed less disc rotation are required. Also has a possitve effect on possible drive wearing issues for the long run.

Non-gaming related, one of the best Blu-Ray movie player fully integrated. Your're welcome.

Quote:

Have you downloaded it yourself?

I have played the game with a friend, I might get the full version later on when available.

Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jun-2008 at 02:56 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jun-2008 at 02:52 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 12-Jun-2008 at 02:49 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: Oh come on, Super Stardust HD... Just play it and you will see. It's an awesome game and technically excellent. Super fast paced (know that I am ranked amongst the top), over 20,000 active objects with physics and collisions and over 100,000 particles simulated and drawn @60fp. There's still a lot of headroom though, for their next PS3 game they will use the SPEs to do some stuff now done by the RSX, they anticipate this will result into a 50% additional graphics performance by itself. Quote: [quote]As for the HDD, what's the point of 25GB discs if every game worth anything install 4-6GB of data onto the HDD? What the hell are you talking about? Uncharted: Drake's Fortune does not have any install and sports no in-game loading times at all! Ratchet & Clank: TOD only installs a few hundred MBs of data, less 1/10th the 4GB figure you claim. Both games use the harddrive as cache.

Did I mention those game? NO! MSG4, GTA4, HAZE ... pretty much any game worth anything, not those 6-hour-of-gameplay games...:

MSG4: 4.9GB
DMC4: 4.6GB
HAZE: 4GB
The Bourne Conspiracy: 5GB
Unreal Tournament 3: 2.3GB
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue V2.0 (Spec II) : 6.1GB
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 V1.20: 2GB
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion GOTY Edition V1.0: 5.3GB
Assassin's Creed V1.10 : 1.37GB
Heavenly Sword V1.10 : 2GB
Everybody's Golf: World Tour V1.0: 4.77GB (why on earth would a golf game need an HDD install?)
Folklore: 1GB

Those are the big ones. I should note that Folklore, PES2008 and UT3's is optional...
fuller list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_game_updates_%26_install_sizes

So if I bought every "decent" PS3 game out right now, I'd pretty much have a full 40GB HDD on my hands... Now what? Uninstall? Suppose I want to come back to it...oh install again...that's 'next-gen' fun for ya...

Quote:

Quote: Where is the BR advantage there? I don't see it. - Far more storage space for high quality audio and textures. (less need to sacrifice quality or game lenght / content diversity) - Constant predictable streaming speed, look at Naughty Dog's first PS3 game. - No disc scratching with BD discs (note the many 360 disc scratching reports) - Less drive noise production, due to the much higher density on disc for similar read speed less disc rotation are required. Also has a possitve effect on possible drive wearing issues for the long run. Non-gaming related, one of the best Blu-Ray movie player fully integrated. Your're welcome.

Lower overall read speed over 12xDVD. Expense. Need for harddrive installs because of the lower speed... Constant speed is great, but it's just not fast enough for gaming purposes which requires fast random access, hence the hard drive installs. With a 40GB PS3, after you buy 9 AAA titles that require 4+GB installs, what happens next? I supposed we'll cross that bridge when the PS3 has 9+ AAA titles that require hdd installs...

I think MS is trying to be more Nintendo-like in not requiring an HDD and offering faster-loading games. It was a big plus in the Gamecube's favor last gen and N64 before that...

Quote:

Quote: Have you downloaded it yourself? I have played the game with a friend, I might get the full version later on when available.

I wouldn't pay full for a glorified demo either... Ok, so how was the framerate? Be honest now.

Last edited by Lou on 12-Jun-2008 at 04:11 PM.

CHICAGO—(BUSINESS WIRE)—Midway Games Inc. (NYSE:MWY), a leading interactive entertainment software publisher and developer, and world renowned developer Epic Games, today announced Unreal Tournament 3, for the Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system from Microsoft, is scheduled to ship globally on July 7, 2008, with several new features including split screen, five exclusive maps and two all-new characters, as well as all previously released downloadable content. Unreal Tournament 3, the award-winning first-person-shooter, is currently available for the PC and PLAYSTATION®3 system.

@MikeB

Super stardust and Ratchet and Clank -- doable on the 360, no doubt. Drake's Fortune and Gran Turismo likely could be 720p but probably not 1080p, I'd have to know more.

Uncharted Drake's Fortune Con: Some will find it too short; some pop-in and screen tearing; sporadic collision detection issues.

Ratchet and Clank has been shown with issues. I've included the YouTube links in past posts here. Things such as lower half of characters disappearing and missing ships are a couple that come to mind.

@BrianK

Quote:

Super stardust and Ratchet and Clank -- doable on the 360

R&C with data sacrifices and maybe activity or framerate sacrifices, certainly. Of course Sixaxis motion controlled flight and mini games are out of the question. The game is absolutely impressive, good draw distances and very well polished.

Super Stardust HD with activity and/or framerate/resolution sacrifices, certainly.

You can do almost any type of game on any current-gen hardware (including PS2 and Wii) with sacrifices.

Quote:

Some will find it too short; some pop-in

Pop-ins are far less noticeable than in near all the big 360 games, like Gears of War, Mass Effect and Bioshock.

Uncharted is a lovely game for a second run through on hard mode. It took me a very long time to get nearly all hidden treasures. Uncharted game length has nothing to do with technical limitations. For a sequel they can re-use already developed game assets and go use 50 GB discs.

Quote:

Ratchet and Clank has been shown with issues. I've included the YouTube links in past posts here.

What you have shown are hidden areas which most will never discover.

New screen shots from The Conduit expected Q1-09 for the Wii
http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/photos/the-conduit/858710/

Please note that they are shrunk to 530x371 or thereabouts...

This game is using the Quantum3 engine that I linked a demo to some time ago that shows off "next-gen" visual effects on the Wii. The thing to note about this engine is that it maintains high polygon count in addition to good texturing and visual effects...

Ign has better 640x448 images here:
http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14248157/the-conduit/images/the-conduit-20080611021211070.html

Last edited by Lou on 12-Jun-2008 at 07:29 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 12-Jun-2008 at 07:21 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

R&C with data sacrifices and maybe activity or framerate sacrifices, certainly. Of course Sixaxis motion controlled flight and mini games are out of the question. The game is absolutely impressive, good draw distances and very well polished. Super Stardust HD with activity and/or framerate/resolution sacrifices, certainly. You can do almost any type of game on any current-gen hardware (including PS2 and Wii) with sacrifices.

Likely they'd be made 720p in the default mode and upscale to 1080p. But at the end of the day that's really all not that much of a sacrifice, especially on SSHD. The 360 has similar games to SSHD. I think you'd be hard pressed to convince us that game is so much more overly complex then the big AAA 360 titles. As for adding sixaxis obviously that would be something would be dropped, and good!

Quote:

What you have shown are hidden areas which most will never discover.

I thought I posted the videos of characters disappearing and missing ship. If not feel free to search for them, they exist.

@BrianK

Quote:

The 360 has similar games to SSHD

And the PS3 has similar games like EveryDay Shooter or Blast Factor, I however think SSHD is clearly in another league with regard to demanding power.

Quote:

s for adding sixaxis obviously that would be something would be dropped, and good

IMO flying around using motion controls is lots of fun, also many of the mini games wouldn´t be nearly as much fun.

With regard to minor flaws, they are very limited and do not hamper anything in any way. I played through the game twice and have experienced no major issues. It´s actually pretty much rock solid!

@Lou

Quote:

I guess you didn't hear about the stock shortages with regards to WiiFit since launch...

I've read that only a token stock went to USA. Nintendo directed most of the first run to Europe to take advantage of the strength of the Euro and avoid the weakening US dollar.

Noel

@MikeB

PS3's SSHD has games that are comparable as far as graphics effects on the 360.
Every Extend Exxtra Extreme, Geometry Wars, Space Giraffe come to mind as similar graphics sorts of games and are nearly if not more busy w/ calculations.

Quote:

IMO flying around using motion controls is lots of fun,

Wiimote is better for this IMO. But both kinda stink in their own ways. Wii Bowling seems to have no effect, for example, if I side arm, underhand, or overhand the shot. Sorry not a fan of the motion controller. Though a Wiimote for Star Wars Sabers would be cool.

@BrianK

Those games don't come close with regard to demanding performance.

Anyway NPD just reported the PS3 outsold the 360 again for May, June will be very interesting considering MGS4 was just released.