@MikeB

Nice chart not sure what it means. What is the total count of games on each console? I think you said something in a previous thread to the effect of it's easy to have large % change when you start out with a small number. I believe the PS3 has the smallest game count out of the consoles and is for sure behind the Xbox360. And isn't game ranking in the eye of the beholder? So certainly other sites and people would come up with their own % ranking. Lastly, does the market believe this? It appears the best games on the market (if this is what you're trying to claim is true by using your chart) is on a console which is in last place. What you call 'shovelware' appears to be where the market demand and profit is and is leading the pack.

@BrianK

The chart regards games released in 2008 and their ratings. The PS3 had more high ranking games released in 2008 than the 360, both in terms of percentage as well as in terms of absolute numbers.

Food for thought: Of the 360's top 25 best sold games for its entire lifetime, only 6 Microsoft published games are not on the PS3 as well. Amongst the top 25 PS3 bestsellers quite a few more games aren't on the 360.

All best selling 3rd party 360 games so far have received PS3 ports or sequels. Only a few Microsoft published games weren't.

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is on a console which is in last place

It's the more expensive console. The 360 goes for 119 Euro including 19% Dutch taxes, the PS3 starts at nearly triple this amount, but is leading in mainland Europe already despite a 1 year and 5 months head start for the 360.

Cheaper entry pricing means more parents buy the console as a cheap gift for their kids. The Wii is cute and has many cute games, so parents are more likely to buy one for their kids, nomatter the actual quality of the games. If Wii games would be judged by 360/PS3 standard criteria nearly all of its games would be slaughtered in the graphics and complexity department, so they would have scored even lower.

@MikeB

Quote:

The chart regards games released in 2008 and their ratings.

Whose ratings? Some site? Ratings aren't an absolute. It's us humans trying to put a number ranking to something that we interpret with our own prejudices. I think it's safe to say you would rank PS3 games higher than I would for example. My prejudice is I have another system which I play more. I assume if I'm playing it more then it must be a more enjoyable game for me. Your prejudice is you don't have a Wii to compare the PS3 games to. The chart really means nothing and the market seems to like the opposite direction of the chart. That might be the only real interesting thing.

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Food for thought: Of the 360's top 25 best sold games for its entire lifetime, only 6 Microsoft published games are not on the PS3 as well. Amongst the top 25 PS3 bestsellers quite a few more games aren't on the 360.

Okay and if the user likes these 19 games it makes little sense to pay more for a PS3 to play them. But I thought we were talking highly ranked games? Are the best sellers the most highly ranked? Not always.

Wii isn't just bought for kids that's a stereotype. Here in the US the people I know that have a Wii bought it for themselves most often. Some have kids yes but not all with kids buy a console for the kids. I have kids and I bought both the 360 and PS3 for me. Sure they can use it but they are mine.

White Knight Story on the PS3 get's less than stellar reviews in Famitsu:
http://kotaku.com/5113983/shocker-famitsu-does-not-love-white-knight-chronicles

This will bring that PS3 average 9.0 game rating down a bit, no?

Key complaints were the crap online component that is touted all over the packaging.
Looks like another projected PS3 system seller fails.

Hey, you can add a point to the "original/new i.p." chart though.

@BrianK

Quote:

The chart really means nothing and the market seems to like the opposite direction of the chart. That might be the only real interesting thing.

Remember the useless joke post I was responding to:

BrianK: "Only because the goal is set to high. Everyone knows the PS3 doesn't have 10 blockbusters so such an owner can't exist."

IGN doesn't seem to know.

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But I thought we were talking highly ranked games? Are the best sellers the most highly ranked? Not always.

To the people who bought those games which are bestsellers on the 360 they probably are blockbuster games. Let me remind you your useless joke post again:

BrianK: "Only because the goal is set to high. Everyone knows the PS3 doesn't have 10 blockbusters so such an owner can't exist."

To name just 10 well received PS3 exclusive bestsellers:

Motorstorm: Pacific Rift, Resistance: Fall of Man, Resistance 2, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, Uncharted: Drakes Fortune, Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction, Heavenly Sword, Little Big Planet and Warhawk.

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Okay and if the user likes these 19 games it makes little sense to pay more for a PS3 to play them.

How much would you pay extra if the 360 would be more reliable, a failure rate below 3% per year?
How much would you pay extra if the 360 if this would make your 360 produce less noise?
How much is Blu-Ray movie compatibility and extras like Wi-Fi and free online multiplayer worth to you?

Serious thoughtful answers on these questions please.

For me the default harddrive, Blu-Ray and the Cell processor means the PS3 is able to achieve games like Uncharted 2, Killzone 2 and God of War 3 with far fewer technical sacrifices than would be possible to achieve on the 360. The PS3 costs more but is also worth far more to me!

@Lou

The game looks promising.

FFXIII on the PS3 looks sweet as well:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/3498.html

@MikeB

Quote:

How much would you pay extra if the 360 would be more reliable, a failure rate below 3% per year?

With the 65nm CPU and GPU Jasper out now there should be no need to pay extra it is expected to meet a more normal defect rate. So really you have a 3 year warranty for the extra piece of mind.

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How much would you pay extra if the 360 if this would make your 360 produce less noise?

Playing DVD/HD-DVD my 360 is quieter than my PS3. When playing a game w/o DVD my 360 is quieter than my PS3. When playing a game on a DVD my 360 is louder. The new rip the game to HD fixed that problem.

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How much is Blu-Ray movie compatibility and extras like Wi-Fi and free online multiplayer worth to you?

If you're on a budget to a hard economy then you can forgot Blu-Ray. The movies here are 2-3x more than the DVD. I bought 1 Blu-Ray for the family for Christmas, Wall-E. All the rest DVD. Why? Cost. 3Matrix films on DVD for $9.98 or the Blu-Ray collection of the Matrix for $79. Yeah 9x more cost in a hard economy is not compelling to Joe consumer. My Blu-Ray on the PS3 goes mostly unused. I have about 10-12 Blu-Rays well because I had it here so I thought I'd get a few. If you decide you want Blu-Ray you can find ~$200 players w/ $100+ free movies = $100 players and actual movies to play. Or you can wait for Christmas 2009 where prices will be even lower. Not having Blu-Ray doesn't harm the 360, there's quite a few HD movies and TV to download and now with NetFlix even more.

Wi-FI, I don't care my PS3 is on 100Mb/s ethernet, another feature I paid for going to waste.

Free Online? I don't consider continual advertising in Home free. The ~$40 I paid for 360 online otoh is worth it.

Amazing those that the Wii user has no DVD or Blu-Ray, no Wi-Fi and yet it's the best selling console.


Read another article on the death of Blu-Ray. This time from the aspect not as a movie format (online will do the attack there) but from the data storage aspect. The new backup medium are flash drives. They store more MB per $ spent. 16GB flash drives can be found for $35. Blu-Ray 25GB disk for $15. Sounds unfair until you consider the $250 penality of the Blu-Ray burner. So that first 25GB is $265. I got a small harddrive that's 250GB and portable for $100. While both will drop in price the flexibility of flash and bigger competition makes it the next media after DVD for storage. If Sony doesn't lower Blu-Ray burner and media prices soon then Blu-Ray will miss the computer angle.

Last edited by BrianK on 20-Dec-2008 at 12:22 AM.

@MikeB

With your chart claiming the PS3 has 10% of the highest games it looks for 2008 it also contains some of the lowest ranked games. LINK Though they give Nintendo the lowest ranked 'award'. Again we still see Nintendo doing best in the marketplace.

@BrianK

So not one serious answer at all.

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With the 65nm CPU and GPU Jasper out now there should be no need to pay extra it is expected to meet a more normal defect rate.

So you bought a Jasper recently (first Jasper spotted in late November 2008)? And that remains to be seen, about 60% of 360 defects were RROD related. So even if that would now be taken care of, if the remaining 40% of failures remains it's still way above industry standards.

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So really you have a 3 year warranty for the extra piece of mind.

Blame the US legal system for that, here in the EU 2 years retailer warranty is standard (fully on retailer's expense), for the Netherlands it's longer than that depending on the normal life expectancy of the product (after 2 years part is paid by consumer and part is paid by retailer).

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Playing DVD/HD-DVD my 360 is quieter than my PS3

I have to open and sit next to my PS3 media cabinet to hear anything, I don't like so many separate components. A huge ass 360 power supply, a 360 as well as an obsolete HD DVD player.

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When playing a game on a DVD my 360 is louder. The new rip the game to HD fixed that problem.

Most 360 owners either don't have a harddrive at all or have a 20 GB model. A few games ripped to a 20 GB harddrive and it's full. It's not like on the PS3 where you can easily upgrade for a cheap 250 or 320 GB harddrive.

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. 3Matrix films on DVD for $9.98 or the Blu-Ray collection of the Matrix for $79.

There's a big difference in quality though.

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My Blu-Ray on the PS3 goes mostly unused.

You probably use it all the time for games, if you play exclusives then they usually take good advantage of Blu-Ray disc, notably for instance Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and Motorstorm: Pacific Rift.

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Wi-FI, I don't care my PS3 is on 100Mb/s ethernet, another feature I paid for going to waste.

It might be overkill for you currently but maybe you will have use for it in the future. You can use Gigabit ethernet for internet, but other uses than internet/LAN can be though of for Wi-Fi as well (overall it can be used for what Blue-Tooth is being used for but with a lot more bandwidth).

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Free Online? I don't consider continual advertising in Home free. The ~$40 I paid for 360 online otoh is worth it.

You've only been online with your 360 for one year? Once you stop paying (or any of your friends) you can't play online games any more.

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Amazing those that the Wii user has no DVD or Blu-Ray, no Wi-Fi and yet it's the best selling console.

Not at all, I said that console would do much better than the GameCube before it lauched (I was one of the few ones having faith in the console at the time), although it sells even better than I thought.

Like I said in this thread, Nintendo currently has momentum and cute image, so it's being mostly bought by parents for their kids. How many kids have a HDTV and online connection in their bedroom anyhow?

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2008 at 12:26 PM.

@MikeB
My xbox 360 has still not crashed once even though i bought it years ago.
Sadly that cannot be said about my PS3... I have actually had it freezing 2-3 times in the past.

@Tomas

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My xbox 360 has still not crashed once even though i bought it years ago

Then you are lucky, of the launch 360 units a vast majority of consoles have failed at least once. I know people who are still on their launch PS2 consoles, they were lucky as well.

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Sadly that cannot be said about my PS3... I have actually had it freezing 2-3 times in the past.

What does that mean? Game freezes usually aren't that severe and has to do with software rather than the hardware. I remember Gears of Wars freezing on me a couple of times before RROD, that may have been due to hardware failure.

@BrianK

Quote:

Read another article on the death of Blu-Ray. This time from the aspect not as a movie format (online will do the attack there) but from the data storage aspect.

Blu-Ray is setting new records:

According to GfK Retail and Technology Blu-Ray has already taken the lead vs DVD in Japan. It's adoption is currently 1.5 time faster than was the case for DVD vs VHS.

"A week after hitting store shelves, the Blu-ray release of Warner Brothers 'The Dark Knight' has sold over 1.7 Million units worldwide, shattering all previous Blu-ray sales records. The film, which stars Christian Bale as the caped-crusader, is set to break $1 Billion at the box office, and some execs feared that home video sales would be hurt by such success. Those fears were alleviated after selling through 600,000 Blu-ray units on the first day, and sales of the landmark title have been continuing at a record pace.

The worldwide numbers include retail and rental sales in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Benelux, and Australia. The majority of sales came from US buyers, which bought over 1 Million units of the title. Blu-ray sales represented nearly 13% of all home media sales for the title, which sold 13.5 Million units on home video formats.

In comparison, 'The Matrix' DVD release in 1999 - which is generally recognized as the title to spark sales of the format - sold 780,000 units in one week. The Blu-ray release of 'The Dark Knight' has more than doubled that accomplishment. "

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movie format (online will do the attack there)

It's amazing for me to see how badly 360/HD DVD want to see Blu-Ray slow down. It's an awesome medium. Online has some potential next to Blu-Ray, but mostly for technophiles and people not interested in owning discs in nice casings at all and if you are a videophile Blu-Ray disc provides better quality movies.

@MikeB

Quote:

So not one serious answer at all.

Look I approached your question from a serious angle. If you disagree that's fine but that doesn't mean I wasn't serious.

Jasper is out now. The heat problem which leads to RRoD has had improvements by gluing the GPU to the motherboard to help prevent seperation, improving cooling, reducing to 65nm, and lowering the power consumption (less power=less heat). Right now it's expected that Jasper will be the most reliable 360 and close to an industry norm. Last gen 360 had improved quality over the launch console. Jasper has even more. Will RRoD happen? Sure. Will it be improved? I'm confident it will. Will it be the industry norm? I'm unsure but industry writers think it will.

As you know my 360 died. It died 2 years and 1 month after purchase. The process took me about ~2 weeks. The new 360 came w/ the newer motherboard and a new 3 year warranty. So for me I'll see 5 years of warranty which is way way above electronic equipment standards.

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I have to open and sit next to my PS3 media cabinet to hear anything, I don't like so many separate components. A huge ass 360 power supply, a 360 as well as an obsolete HD DVD player.

As I've explained in the past my PS3 seems to have a fan issue about 1 hour into a 2 hour Blu-Ray it goes to blast like a jet plane mode. It's in the same enclosure as my 360. The enclosure is perferated on sides, front and back. My 360 doesn't do this playing HD media.

Now remember the HD DVD player for the 360 was seperate. People buying this knew there was a media war out. Some like me bought both. I have more HD DVD movies than Blu-Ray. Why? I bought quite a bit for $5-7 since the media is dead. Now my HTPC has an LG drive that plays both Blu-Ray and HD. So, I have use for it for the next several years and I fully realize that at some point it'll be lossed.

Power supply for the 360, mine is behind my enclosure, I don't even know it's there.

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There's a big difference in quality though.

No one disagrees that quality in sound and video hasn't improved. I'd state that the improvements are not worth 9x more expense.

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You probably use it all the time for games

I view and I'm sure the market views Blu-Ray on games different then Blu-Ray for movies. The first isn't advertised. It's known and unimportant since there is no cross platform game sharing. If this is the criteria then I guess UMD is a success. Right now the majority of PS3 games are small enough to fit on a DVD. What Blu-Ray gave these game makers was lower profits. This came in 2 ways, the first was moving around content to ensure good load times (read more labor) and the cost of manufacture of Blu-Ray I believe is still slightly higher than a DVD (reduced profit).

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Most 360 owners either don't have a harddrive at all or have a 20 GB model

It depends what 'or' means. It's true most harddrives are the 20GB model. That is enough to store 4-6 games. It's not true most don't have harddrives. I believe it was last year when Microsoft stated 80% of Arcade users purchase an add-on harddrive, yes at the time it was the 20GB model.

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It might be overkill for you currently but maybe you will have use for it in the future.

I doubt it. My enclosure has the HTPC which serves media to the home and acts as the backup server, PS3, and 360 all use ethernet. Since the HTPC is best on Gig to ensure it can serve other areas of the home the PS3 will always have ethernet close by.

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You've only been online with your 360 for one year? Once you stop paying (or any of your friends) you can't play online games any more

I've paid about $40 per year for 360 online. If I stop paying I realize I can't play with friends anymore online. I don't see that as a problem as the service right now is still superior to the PS3. Free on the PS3 is fair, $40 on the 360 is fair, cuz you get what you pay for IMO.

Quote:

How many kids have a HDTV and online connection in their bedroom anyhow?

I know it's a small market of just my firends but those with Wii's are in the living room same as their PS2 or 360. None allow their kids Wii in their bedrooms.

@MikeB

Yup Blu-Ray is taking off in Japan. It's making inroads other places. As Blu-Ray increases the average consumer is going to buy the $100 player not the $400 PS3 for this purpose.

In the US Blu-Ray is just at the price point where it's entering the average consumer's home. It'll make more inroads. Though I think it's the last physical medium for movies. Bandwidth increases and accessibility increases to the internet will make online services continually more attractive.

Comparing the Matrix to Dark Knight is interesting. DK is a more popular movie. It shattered DVD record sales too.

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It's an awesome medium.

From the persepective of Moore's Law Blu-Ray is not an awesome medium. The size of storage from DVD to Blu-Ray is under the doubling every 18 months that Moore's Law predicts. During the same time I've seen bandwidth to the home exceed Moore's Law. Blu-Ray may grow in size but it's not going to give you any more quality to the movie. It'll allow things like all 6 Stars Wars on 1 Blu-Ray when the size gets there. On the other hand online will continue to grow and more and more will get the quality of Blu-Ray from things like NetFlix's 1080p internet service.

One of the issues over the years of computing was the need to convert from bits into atoms. We did it from punchcards to floppy disks to Blu-Ray. Right now the fastest way (bits/second) to ship data from the US to Japan is to use a ship full of media w/ compressed files. This era is coming to an end. Today we're keeping bits bits in our media - memory sticks. Why should I have boxes littering my valuable home space? Keep the movie as a digital format and on my RAID which is hidden in the basement. Use the shelf space for more valuable aspects such as pictures of loved ones and expanding the Hummel collection. Digital content serving for audio is killing the DVD market. Digial content for movies is next and it'll kill the Blu-Ray. The question is will Blu-Ray have enough time to take over for DVD or will digital content kill Blu-Ray prematurely. IMO the writing is on the wall.

Last edited by BrianK on 20-Dec-2008 at 02:36 PM.

Games Radar best of 2008
Some are too funny... Best game with a d***, Little Big Planet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but PS3 started outselling Xbox 360 circa November 2007 and did so slightly for much of 2008. If I understand VGchartz.com numbers correctly (and if they are correct), Xbox 360 has now again surpassed any gains made by Sony during whole of 2007-2008 and is again growing the Xbox 360 lead over PS3.

VGChartz Hardware data for the period 03rd Nov 2007 to 13th Dec 2008:

Console Total
PS3 12,818,805
X360 12,955,864

Wii, of course, surpassed PSP and is on its way to surpassing SNES soon. I still wonder whether or not it has the longevity to threaten PS2 numbers.

Blu-ray is, as far as quality goes, great. Truly impressive sound and visuals. However, the average Joe with their viewing distance and screen size will not see that much of a difference - Blu-ray has a problem of perceived value. We'll see how it goes. For a home theater enthusiast the situation is of course different and now that HD DVD is gone, Blu-ray offers the best for that.

Add to the perceived value problem are the profile issues, compatibility and speed issues and cumbersome Java extra stuff - BD is not yet very polished, HD DVD was much more polished in this regard.

We'll see. But I do think BD has value for at least projector people.

@BrianK

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If this is the criteria then I guess UMD is a success

Of course it is, excluding movie playback software from the PSP would not have made the medium more successful. Actually it was a smart move to include this, no matter the limited potential (small PSP screen compared to laptop, portable DVD players, etc), it helped to bring down production costs and there´s a nice library of value add movies now.

Last edited by MikeB on 21-Dec-2008 at 11:52 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Best game with a d***, Little Big Planet.

BTW, Spike TV's Video Game Awards 2008:

Game of the Year: Grand Theft Audo 4
Developer of the year: Media Molecule (LBP)

Best graphics: Metal Gear Solid 4
Best original score: Metal Gear Solid 4

My top 3 personal favourites for 2008:

1) Motorstorm: Pacific Rift (IMO best racing game ever, if you liked the original you probably love this one, 12 player online is silky smooth!)
2) Resistance 2 (Very good single player campaign and awesome lag free online functionality)
3) LittleBigPlanet (Very creative, create your own levels and try out endless amount of efforts from other people, this game is great to play with friends over the internet)

@jtsiren

Quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but PS3 started outselling Xbox 360 circa November 2007

The launch in PAL regions is when the PS3 first started to outsell the 360. At the time retailer sales suggested a near 9 million gap early 2007.

This 9 million gap was due to a 1 year headstart for the 360 in the North America and Japan. And the PS3 was yet to launch in PAL regions, while the 360 already went through their second holiday season there.

We will have to wait for the official figures (financial reports, data which are not estimates), but note in any comparisons the 360 is already selling in regions where the PS3 is even yet to officially launch, like for South America.