@jtsiren

Hmm. I kind of like the modular approach, and it does make some sense. I think it's safe to say Sony's next gen is highly unlikely to be competitively priced, assuming it comes out within a year of the 720. Therefore, MS can operate under the following:
1. Make $ on overpriced accessories, like Sony and Nintendo ($50 Dual Shock, no component or HDMI cable with PS3 bundle = meh).
2. Start the base unit (no optical drive, and no hard drive) off *cheap*, which would be for online content only.
3. Allow expansion of the base unit, or purchase of a 'server,' whether that is another 720 + 'accessories' (say, a HD module with server OS), or a specialized sale of the Windows Media edition, 720 version (or Windows 7/8. whatever), to include the optical drive, server OS, etc.

It would be interesting to see if in the above or similar scenario, they would allow integration with say, my 2+TB NAS box, or not. Selling the consumer a HD with 'server OS' would still allow the customer to use existing storage, while still 'requiring' an additional purchase from MS.

Likewise, streaming of games with no local storage can prove to be interesting. I don't think many locations will have significantly faster net access/bandwidth in the next few years (they *should*, but...governments and established business will fight it or get in the way), so let's say, we're trying to only stream games from online, one level at a time. We're limited to the amount of RAM in the system, which may impact game level design..*or* the lag time when a new area is loaded, swapping out from the old. Not much difference from when we hit DVD or Blu-Ray today, but.....'buy the local storage module and decrease loading times' is still a compelling purchase for consumers.

Buy a base system, $200. Play games and movies streamed from XBox Live. Some level of lag is inherent between levels versus amount of RAM (Although RAM is now nearly at an all time low, but still).

Want to speed up load times? Buy the Storage Module, for $120. (This could be a single physical HD or SSD)

Want to play BD/DVDs? Buy the Optical drive. $100

Want it to serve as a Media Center, plus use your existing network storage? Buy the Server Module, with Windows Media 720 Edition and a local HD, $175.

Of course, MS *could* make it to benefit the consumer, and use all off the shelf, user serviceable parts, besides the OS...but I find it unlikely, and the above could still allow people to 'upgrade' their systems to fit their needs, over time, and $.

When are we expecting the 720 to be out? I think it's *possible* for next gen, if planned properly, but not without the 'add ons.'

Want to

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Amiboy

Quote:

Amiboy wrote: Latest news show that although Sony are still making a loss on each console sold it has been significantly reduced from what it was 2 years ago. Some people are predicting that Sony could break even on the Hardware in 2009 which could lead to a reduction in the cost of the system to the consumer Link: PS3 looses less for Sony

The problem is by the time it makes them money, people wil have moved on to a 720 or Nintendo "je ne sais quo"...

I just bought my brother and sister-in-law a Magnaxov BluRay player for under $200 at Walmart. The Sony model was $298. My brother is a big Sony fan and if he wants the Sony model, he can trade up for it after Christmas...

@wegster

Quote:

Likewise, streaming of games with no local storage can prove to be interesting.

First things first, I think first Microsoft should make sure Gears of War 2 with its pretty simply small environment 5 vs 5 (max) online battles don't lag so much.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster Quote: Likewise, streaming of games with no local storage can prove to be interesting. First things first, I think first Microsoft should make sure Gears of War 2 with its pretty simply small environment 5 vs 5 (max) online battles don't lag so much.

We don't really want to bring up Home, do we? ("You can keep on knocking, but you can't come in!" )

Obviously, infrastructure would need to change..

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@wegster

Quote:

We don't really want to bring up Home, do we?

I am sorry, but it's solid when connected (pre-patch problem). And BTW voice chat has been re-enabled.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster Quote: We don't really want to bring up Home, do we? I am sorry, but it's solid when connected (pre-patch problem). And BTW voice chat has been re-enabled.

Ok, so now it's just uninteresting, or at best, another IM/chat addition, like AIM/MSN/Yahoo or Skype.

The next gen 720 discussion was far more interesting than Home.
*shrug*

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@wegster

Quote:

Ok, so now it's just uninteresting, or at best, another IM/chat addition, like AIM/MSN/Yahoo or Skype.

Nah, it's far more interesting than that. You can play free games within home (like for instance playing some chess with new people), I would like some of those Namco classics (Xevious, Pacman, Galaga, etc) for inside my Playstation Home. For instance people can soon go to game dedicated spaces, for instance the Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, talk about the game with people, make new friends, go inside secret rooms, plan a game of Warhawk inside its Playstation Home strategy room before jumping into the game and then return back to Home, etc.

A virtual world like Home IMO is much more interesting than just some random chat room and provides endless potential. For instance the free Red Bul Air Race, what has that to do with something like MSN?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtIBzfzVCgM

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Dec-2008 at 12:19 AM.

@MikeB
Last spin around Home had none of that. Even the simple bowling alley was lame, in that it didn't grow virtually to accomodate the number of people that were in the area that might want to play, just 'full lanes.'

What it *could* do is different than what it does, today...but right now, it's of little interest, unless they start having game demos (think they had bandwidth issues before, just with logins? ), or something of real interest, besides a broken idea that people will pay *real money* for a new shirt or a couch for their 'apartment.'

Note that all of the 'talk about game, plan game' are all basically what? IM chats.

One other annoyance, not only with Sony, others as well. They're doing little to move Video on Demand into the mainstream, mainly due to their pricing. NetFlix = pay a single fee, per month, not $6-$10 for a *single* movie rental, or $20 for a download to keep. Apple is as guilty, as is Time Warner, and presumably other cable companies. It'll be 'too sad' when none take off, but NetFlix fixed rate takes them all out, due to prohibitive pricing.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

a broken idea that people will pay *real money* for a new shirt or a couch for their 'apartment.'

Home items selling like hotcakes
http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/12/23/home-items-selling-like-hotcakes/

Maybe being a little bit more open minded would be a good idea?

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster Quote: We don't really want to bring up Home, do we? I am sorry, but it's solid when connected (pre-patch problem). And BTW voice chat has been re-enabled.

Yet it is very boring even when connected... You only have a very small world and you even have to load when entering a building or a room inside a building! I guess the ps3 lacks the ram which means it has to load more often... Either way it is not usable for much as it is now.

@MikeB


MikeB wrote:
@wegster

Quote:

Ok, so now it's just uninteresting, or at best, another IM/chat addition, like AIM/MSN/Yahoo or Skype. Nah, it's far more interesting than that. You can play free games within home (like for instance playing some chess with new people), I would like some of those Namco classics (Xevious, Pacman, Galaga, etc) for inside my Playstation Home. For instance people can soon go to game dedicated spaces, for instance the Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, talk about the game with people, make new friends, go inside secret rooms, plan a game of Warhawk inside its Playstation Home strategy room before jumping into the game and then return back to Home, etc. A virtual world like Home IMO is much more interesting than just some random chat room and provides endless potential. For instance the free Red Bul Air Race, what has that to do with something like MSN? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtIBzfzVCgM

So could you in second life.. Not only could you play games inside second life, but alot of it was also user created since users are free to create whatever they want. It also had no loading times and felt more realistic since there is little to none loading times unless you teleport.

Last edited by Tomas on 24-Dec-2008 at 12:16 PM.

@Tomas

If they re-inventented the wheel for the PS3, MikeB would claim it's rounder than any other wheel out there.

@MikeB

Here are some Blu-Ray updates.

Best selling Blu-Ray ever The Dark Knight. 1.7M copies in 1 week. This compares to 11.8M DVD purchases, the best selling DVD in 1 week.

While Blu-Ray is making inroads in Japan, some estimates are as high as 50%. It's making less in roads in Europe, a larger market, and even less in roads into the USA, an even larger market. It's predicted it'll take until 2012 for Blu-Ray to pull ahead of DVD in homes. LINK .

The question here is will the other market products ramp up quicker? HD movie rental is predicted to grow at a faster rate than Blu-Ray. One can buy a $300 Blu-Ray player or a $300 Xbox, or a $100 Roku Netflix box. The user pays a small per month fee to watch as many movies as they like. This gets back to the economic situation. If your choice is $100 player + $120 per year for as many HD movies as possible OR $300 + movies (one can get around 5 for $120) to enterain your family which would people choose? In times of more economic uncertainity the rental is the winner, you get more entertainment for less money.

I think Samsung has the right answer as they are shipping a Blu-Ray player that hooks into online rental service. It's the safer investment as it hooks into both markets.

@BrianK

Quote:

. It's making less in roads in Europe, a larger market, and even less in roads into the USA

1 million of those Dark Knight sales were for North America, taking equal time frames no best-selling DVD at the time came close.
Some Europe/UK data:

"what with the flourishing sales of Blu-ray Disc movies and players all across Europe! In November, Blu-ray hardware sales - which include PS3 consoles - outsold DVD hardware sales, including PS2 consoles, by five times.

Most business analysts feel that 2008 has certainly "been a breakthrough year for Blu-Ray." British Blu-ray player owners bought nearly 462,500 titles in November, a 165% increase over the previous month. The latest numbers for December, released by the British Video Association (BVA) show that 'The Dark Knight' sold an astounding 513,000 units on the first day alone, and 21% of those sales were Blu-Ray."

Blu-Ray sales surging in Europe
http://topnews.us/content/21139-blu-ray-sales-surging-europe

The format performs well globally.

@MikeB

http://kotaku.com/5117496/what-percentage-of-some-japanese-people-own-blu+ray-playing-devices-game-machines-included

Quote:

Which of the following movie recording and playback devices do you have? (Sample size = 1,081, multiple answer) VHS video recorder: 68.0 percent DVD player (including games machines): 66.4 percent Hard disk and DVD recorder/player: 36.0 percent Hard disk only recorder/player: 12.3 percent Blu-ray recorder/player (including games machines): 6.3 percent HD DVD recorder/player (including games machines): 3.4 percent None of the above: 4.4 percent Don’t know: 0.8 percent

@Amiboy

Quote:

Latest news show that although Sony are still making a loss on each console sold it has been significantly reduced from what it was 2 years ago. Some people are predicting that Sony could break even on the Hardware in 2009 which could lead to a reduction in the cost of the system to the consumer

Those tear-downs contain more than a little guessing, I suspect the PS3 hardware is already making a profit or is at least very close. That said it'll differ by region, it's probably been making a profit in the UK for a very long time, though the diving pound isn't helping things these days. They're making money off the games now though so it'll offset any loss they do make on hardware.

Sony isn't making much money right now so they need every profitable division they can get.

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@Lou

That sample is not representative for the Japanese market as a whole. Blu-Ray had near 100% market share for Japan before the end of the "format war".



BTW, every PS3 and Blu-Ray player also plays DVD, so people also own a DVD player.

Active usage is highest amongst Blu-Ray and higher for DVD compared to VHS.

@MikeB

Quote:

1 million of those Dark Knight sales were for North America, taking equal time frames no best-selling DVD at the time came close

What timeframe are you talking about here?

@BrianK

Quote:

What timeframe are you talking about here?

First week of sales.

@MikeB

Quote:

@BrianKQuote: What timeframe are you talking about here? First week of sales.

I think you might need some rephrasing here. It sounds as if you believe that the Blu-Ray Dark Knight beat the first week record of DVD sales? That's not the case for example Transformers sold about 8.3M DVDs on their first week in the USA. FInding Nemo sold 8M DVDs in their first day.