@thread

Although I am a big fan of Killzone I have slight concers over some of the scriptedness of the latest demo's I have seen.

Particulrly the bit where you have to blow up the bridge on the latest level (2nd?) to progress furthur.

I just dont like the fact that the RPG you use is just lying their ready for you to just pick up.

IMO it would be far better if part of your mission for that level was to protect the RPG team (mabe 1 or 2 RPG carriers and 3 normal troopers?) from the Helgast sent out to take them down, from the beach landing until the bit when the bridge is blown.

It could then be possible for the game designers to allow you to try out different senarios such as getting down and dirty and following the team around getting in the Helgasts face, or maybe even stand back and snipe a route through to the bridge protecting the team from afar.

Also in the event that the RPG team gets killed it shouldn't be game over, but rather it should be your chance to then pick up the weapon and use it.

I think this then would allow things to be adapted easier for harder settines (e.g. more Helghast trying to kill the team earlier on etc) and would allow choice to how people approach complete the mission/level.

If there are any other scripted event similar to this I think it would be better if they played out similar to this.

I just hope people dont think im trying to put the game down but see this as contructive criticism

Last edited by Amiboy on 21-Jun-2008 at 10:27 AM.

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@Samwel

I think if you read what I wrote it should be clear why I commented that MGS4 wasn't a game for me and I'm not going to buy for my PS3.

As for fanboyism? Certainly, you're here giving your fanboy view that it's the game of the year. Now other fanboys out there may agree with you and others, of course, will not. We're all fanboys to some extent.

Other genre's are clearly the same. -- What I pick as my favorite or less favorite movies, bands, or books are due to my preferences.

Certainly people don't like the movie of the year because they don't favor the script, or don't like the director's style or perhaps don't like the lead actor. Certainly it's fine for others to agree that MGS4 rated game of the year by many isn't a style of gameplay or directing (too many cut-scenes) that would be attractive to what they look for in a game.

Myself I don't like cut-scenes. Some can, rarely done IMO, be fit in and seemingly be fluid for gameplay. Most of the time they are distracting. MGS4 -- game of the year -- sure! For me? No.

BTW if you look back you'll see why I likely won't ever play the most anticipated game of the year GTA IV any longer. So yeah I'm outta the box in that way.

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @BrianK, Lou Ok so now you're thrashing THE PS3 game of the year.. Why? Because it's good? Or because it's not available on the platform of your choice? I think what you guys are doing is low.. Real fanboy stuff. I bet if this game came on your platform of choice you would defend it... It has actually gotten GREAT reviews for it's gameplay ASWELL as the story and cut scene's. You can skip the cut scenes and still enjoy the game?!

No, I'm trashing MikeB's overly granduous claims that the game uses no FMV.
The same reviewers who game the game 9.5's and 10's flatout tell you they were let down by the gameplay of the last 66% of the game. I am not trashing the game.

MikeB, if anyone, is being the fanboy for denying the facts that they games uses ALOT of FMV, be it fullscreen or thrown on an ingame display device...mixed with realtime scripted machinma...where all the user can do is the the gpu to render the scene from a different angle...

Now, rather than admit he was wrong, he posts about how BluRay is great for games and allows for more presentation (read FMV cutscenes) to enhance the story...

Last edited by Lou on 22-Jun-2008 at 02:32 AM.

@Lou

Way to exaggerate and put words into my mouth.

"GP: Half-Life and even MGS3 contained "living" cutscenes, where the player can do as he chooses as the story unfolds. Are you interested in interactive storytelling, or more the traditional cinematic approach?

Kojima: Of course I'm interested. And of course MGS4 will be as interactive as possible...that's one reason why we do [cinemas] in real time. If we're allowed to just show something pretty, we can show that in a movie scene.

GP: Resistance: Fall of Man uses 22 GB [edit: recently changed to 16 GB] of Blu-ray storage. Is that necessary for next-gen development? Is that massive storage something you'll need to make MGS4?

Kojima: Right away. We'll need more. "

Nobody is saying the Wii would be a nice fit for Blu-Ray technology, obviously being much less highly specced there is far less of an advantage.

Please step back and don't get yourself heated up so much, polite discussions are IMO more useful.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Way to exaggerate and put words into my mouth. "GP: Half-Life and even MGS3 contained "living" cutscenes, where the player can do as he chooses as the story unfolds. Are you interested in interactive storytelling, or more the traditional cinematic approach? Kojima: Of course I'm interested. And of course MGS4 will be as interactive as possible...that's one reason why we do [cinemas] in real time. If we're allowed to just show something pretty, we can show that in a movie scene. GP: Resistance: Fall of Man uses 22 GB [edit: recently changed to 16 GB] of Blu-ray storage. Is that necessary for next-gen development? Is that massive storage something you'll need to make MGS4? Kojima: Right away. We'll need more. "

Here you go side-stepping the issue again. MSG4 uses FMV, FMV integrated with real-time game animation...and what you suggest above. If they didn't use FMV to the delusionally miniscule extent that you claim, Kojima would not need more space than BluRay had to offer. Infact I would stay they'd use more FMV rather than pay the man-hours to have so much scripting going on in the scripted sequences...

You asked for references, I gave you exact ones and yet you still live in denial...

Quote:

Nobody is saying the Wii would be a nice fit for Blu-Ray technology, obviously being much less highly specced there is far less of an advantage. Please step back and don't get yourself heated up so much, polite discussions are IMO more useful.

What are you going on about here? Stick with the subject matter. We aren't talking about why the Wii needs or doesn't need BluRay.

Guys, I hate to say it but you ALL sound like fanboys.

Me? I'm enjoying playing games on this PS2 I've just got. Games are technicaly a lot better on my PC (Which is technicaly better than any console - any generation), but all that matters is the one simple question.

Is it fun?


Answer, yes.

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@Lou

Quote:

Here you go side-stepping the issue again. MSG4 uses FMV

May use some FMV like I stated before, but most scenes are realtime. You can move and zoom the camera, different clothing or a different face camo is represented in the cutscenes.

Quote:

If they didn't use FMV to the delusionally miniscule extent that you claim

Quotes please, both from me and your source on FMV. Is it really so hard for you to stay polite? I pity you..

Quote:

What are you going on about here? Stick with the subject matter. We aren't talking about why the Wii needs or doesn't need BluRay.

I see no other reason why you might be upset.

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Jun-2008 at 12:59 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: Here you go side-stepping the issue again. MSG4 uses FMV May use some FMV like I stated before, but most scenes are realtime. You can move and zoom the camera, different clothing or a different face camo is represented in the cutscenes.

Atleast you admit to it now...and I never said it didn't use real-time at all as that is trivial anyway...

Quote:

Quote: If they didn't use FMV to the delusionally miniscule extent that you claim Quotes please, both from me and your source on FMV. Is it really so hard for you to stay polite? I pity you..

That woud be Post # 252...but you have selective reading or poor vision. In the latter case, it is I who pity you... As for being polite, I am not being impolite, but I do find it rude that you ignore my factual references...

Quote:

Quote: What are you going on about here? Stick with the subject matter. We aren't talking about why the Wii needs or doesn't need BluRay. I see no other reason why you might be upset.

Clearly, seeing things for what they are is a problem for you...

@Lou

Quote:

That woud be Post # 252...but you have selective reading or poor vision.

Reread that post, really nothing to be upset about, nor inconsistent with what I have said.

@MikeB

Quote:

I appreciate a good story and good acting, in fact I would rank its importance up there right behind gameplay

Good to know. I don't. Better stories can always be had from movies or even better books. For gaming I expect gameplay. This might be telling on why you think Blu-Ray is so important. Developers need more room to put this non-gameplay into the game.

Quote:

Achieving in-game cutscenes of quality compared to pre-rendered movies is IMO quite an accomplishment

Meh! Evolutionary expected result, IMO.

Quote:

Seamless transition from gameplay to cutscene and from cutscene to gameplay

Could be an advantage such as the user viewing a TV set. But could be a disadvantage if you're expecting your character to do something and can't because the the FMV is limiting actions.

Quote:

Cutscene interactivity, like being able to change camera views, or like here being able to use a robot to move around in the cutscene. Potentially developers could adjust a cutscene so that it affects what goes on within the cutscene.

How about gameplay where what happens effects the game? I go back to the FMV game Dragon's Lair. Loved by many. Actions always effected the FMV in so far as they allowed you to choose which FMV would be shown. One of 7 deaths or a success, for example. This isn't an advantage the game IS the advantage gameplay can be better used to effect outcome of the game. Limiting options to those within an FMV is a degradation of choices.

Quote:

Another advantage of realtime cutscenes is that they can be designed to take less space on disc

Sure an advantage perhaps on why Blu-Ray isn't needed. But the disadvantage here is developers (MGS4 for example) simply want more of this non-gameplay included in their game. This allows them to put more of the stuff that isn't liked by myself and many others into the game. I'd argue this is morphing a game into entertainment of an intergrated game and movie.

Like SpaceDruid I want to have fun playing games. Even if you could walk here or there in an FMV this isn't gameplay and something I'm opposed to having. So I tend to steer away from these games. Even if MGS4 is the bestest game evar it's not in my liking. In sofar as reviewers comment that nearly 1/3 of the experience is non-gaming, eg video.

@BrianK

Quote:

Good to know. I don't. Better stories can always be had from movies or even better books. For gaming I expect gameplay. This might be telling on why you think Blu-Ray is so important. Developers need more room to put this non-gameplay into the game.

So how do like your Mass Effect with its long repetitive non-skippable cutscenes?

For some type of games no extensive background story is needed, like Super Stardust HD, Motorstorm or Pacman.

For other type of games it IMO adds greatly to the experience, such as Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, God of War, Heavenly Sword, etc. Without a story these games will IMO feel empthy.

Quote:

n sofar as reviewers comment that nearly 1/3 of the experience is non-gaming, eg video.

If you really don't want to experience them, just skip them. According to reviewers that would be a shame and deem them a must watch, but people are given an option.

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Jun-2008 at 06:20 PM.

@Thread

As an aside, a mate came round today and showed my a website where I (ahem) could "borrow" lots of console games (cough) and was staggered to see EVERY SINGLE XBOX 360 GAME EVER RELEASED * available for download via torrents and hundreds of PS2/XBox 1 games etc, but surprisingly not a single PS3 game anywhere.

And there go the game publishers telling us that they are cutting back on PC releases and focusing on consoles because of piracy. Obviously, thats not the true reason since its just as bad (with the apparent exception of the PS3?)

(And no, I won't give anyone a link. Not even if you ask nicely. Piracy is wrong m'kay).

But seriously, I was shocked at the scale of the theft. (For the record, I've only ever pirated one game in my life which was the Amiga game Balance of Power after I couldn't find it to buy anywhere).


*That was the boast on the website.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote: @Thread As an aside, a mate came round today and showed my a website where I (ahem) could "borrow" lots of console games (cough) and was staggered to see EVERY SINGLE XBOX 360 GAME EVER RELEASED * available for download via torrents and hundreds of PS2/XBox 1 games etc, but surprisingly not a single PS3 game anywhere. And there go the game publishers telling us that they are cutting back on PC releases and focusing on consoles because of piracy. Obviously, thats not the true reason since its just as bad (with the apparent exception of the PS3?) (And no, I won't give anyone a link. Not even if you ask nicely. Piracy is wrong m'kay). But seriously, I was shocked at the scale of the theft. (For the record, I've only ever pirated one game in my life which was the Amiga game Balance of Power after I couldn't find it to buy anywhere). *That was the boast on the website.

Back in the good old days, I would want to buy games such as Ultima 3 because of the documentation and things like the cloth map of the "planet" that was included... Perhaps that is why alot of Wii games are coming with peripherals...as incentive to buy the real thing...

@MikeB

Quote:

So how do like your Mass Effect with its long repetitive non-skippable cutscenes?

Like I said before that part sucks! Especially the elevators that take longer then warping in a spaceship. One of the reasons ME isn't the tops for me and likely why I won't take time to finish it.

@Thread
Humorous (Stolen from another thread) reasons to dislike MGS Series.
1) Snake is capable of eating dozens of tins of rations in a short time span, yet is never seen using the bathroom, or even walking funny.
2) Halfway through the second game, Solid Snake dies his hair blond and is played by a woman. This is never explained.
3) Shaking down bad guys to steal their dog tags before murdering them is a war crime, and not a “cool feature.”
4) The bad guys also never raise their gaze from the floor, constantly scanning the ground about 10 feet in front of them
5) Snake’s radar doesn’t work when he’s hiding under tables. Are these tables made out of lead? Is there kryptonite near by?
6) Also, why can’t the bad guys see Snake on their radar?
7) Also, how can Snake see bad guys on his radar? Are they made of aluminum?
8) Also, why does Snake have radar?
9) The idea of massive killer robots is a classic staple of Japanese culture, and is fair game as far as plot devices go. But the concept of massive killer robots living within a much larger massive killer robot is stolen almost verbatim from an episode of The Golden Girls. (ep 06e13 - Strange Bedfellows)
10) The scene where Otacon revealed that he had slept with his mother which caused his father to commit suicide and his sister to hate him, wrecked not just the three obvious relationships, but four, if you count my girlfriend, who was in the room while I was playing through this scene, then stood up, walked out the door and never turned back.

@BrianK

Quote:

Like I said before that part sucks! Especially the elevators that take longer then warping in a spaceship. One of the reasons ME isn't the tops for me and likely why I won't take time to finish it.

You have? I thought you said it was a good game, just a slow in the beginning. About a third of that game you are watching cutscenes which are frankly not of movie-like quality like MGS4's skipable cutscenes are said to be (story, acting performances, graphics, interactive, etc).

Regarding the Mass Effect gameplay bits on the 360:

Eurogamer: "Although it underpins the game with all sorts of excellent ideas that ought to make it a deeper, more intelligent and immersive experience, the simple truth is that the minute-to-minute combat simply isn't as intense and involving as you'd expect from a game in 2007. Throw in some grumbles about the somewhat unoptimised state of the frame-rate, texture pop-in and v-syncing terrors, and it's a game that just falls short of our expectations."

IGN: "The framerate in Mass Effect is as erratic as they come. This isn't something that happens occasionally. It happens incessantly. The game also has issues loading textures in when you enter a new environment. Flat, boring scenery gets filled in with details piece by piece for a few moments each time you load in. "

I think it's funny you criticize a very solid game like Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction for minor flaws which the average person will never encounter (off the map areas only reachable through some skillful tricks) or that you criticize Metal Gear Solid 4 for its much praised skipable cutscenes. You do realize what this makes you look like?

I am not saying Mass Effect is a bad game, like I stated in the past but really your outed criticism often isn't very consistant. Just wanted to point this out to you.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think it's funny you criticize a very solid game like Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction for minor flaws which the average person will never encounter (off the map areas only reachable through some skillful tricks) or that you criticize Metal Gear Solid 4 for its much praised skipable cutscenes. You do realize what this makes you look like?

Um read back what I said about Mass Effect -- FMV and the bad cut scenes again are 'One of the reasons ME isn't the tops for me and likely why I won't take time to finish it.' IMO it makes me look pretty consistent, I'm not playing a game Mass Effect due to cut scenes why shoudl I play MGS4 for cut scenes?

As for Ratchet&Clank my responses were to you claiming a prefect game with no problems. Yet there are. I'm all about loving a game but be honest when people run into problems they run into problems.

So, I disagree with your assessment. My criticism is consistant. Yes I did give Mass Effect more of a try then MGS4. But, it also solidified my FMV games have gotta go mindset. Surely we want people to continunally learn things throughout their life and enhance future decisions on past choices. It's called maturing.

Last edited by BrianK on 23-Jun-2008 at 11:21 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

I'm not playing a game Mass Effect due to cut scenes why shoudl I play MGS4 for cut scenes?

I don't say you have to play Metal Gear Solid 4, despite I think it would probably widen your perspectives. What I am saying why diss MGS4's greatness due to high quality skipable cutscenes when you thought Mass Effect was good enough?

Mass Effect is a bad example of good cutscenes, within this game the mandatory flawed lifeless cutscenes are repetitive and often used to unsuccessfully mask loading times.

IMO its easy to see a lot more effort has been put in cutscenes of games like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (great acting), Heavenly Sword (look at the lifelike emotions), God of War (Brutal, Epic) or Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction (funny).

Mass Effect's cutscenes are too samey and lacking some magic ingredients, IMO much like Oblivion's repetitive dialogues.

Quote:

As for Ratchet&Clank my responses were to you claiming a prefect game with no problems.

You exaggerate again, I never said the game is perfect. I said in general most Sony exclusives in general perform rock solid in comparison to 3rd party efforts. Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction is such a game, I never experienced a major flaw during several playthroughs. Even the videos by the experts revealing hidden areas did not result in any major flaws, just less polish for the environments gamers weren't to get to anyhow.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Jun-2008 at 08:10 AM.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11061&Itemid=2

Sony's losses from TV+Games fall to 1.15B... PS3 hardware still not profittable...
Stringer says Sony's #1 priority is to return to profittability...

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't say you have to play Metal Gear Solid 4, despite I think it would probably widen your perspectives.

I don't agree it would widen my perspective in any significant way. But, hey if you want to ship me a free copy I'll take a look.

Quote:

. What I am saying why diss MGS4's greatness due to high quality skipable cutscenes when you thought Mass Effect was good enough?

Mass Effect was a year ago. I'm a person I can change and of course playing ME changed my perspective on cutscenes. While it does have some bad ones like the elevator it also has some particularily good ones. None-the-less Also having a 2nd kid means I have less time for gaming. That means I want into a game and action ASAP. When I want story I read, at this time I feel little need for a deep complex story in my games.

Quote:

Mass Effect's cutscenes are too samey and lacking some magic ingredients, IMO much like Oblivion's repetitive dialogues.

Interesting. Do tell how long have you played ME and how far have you gotten?

Quote:

Even the videos by the experts revealing hidden areas did not result in any major flaws, just less polish for the environments gamers weren't to get to anyhow

Again a couple flaws shown were in game the ship would disappear for 1 person and another shows collision detection issues as the body of the character disappears in the background and only head shows.

@thread

CVG have an article in which they claim to have the final feature list for the PS3 Firmware update 2.4 which PS3 owners should expect to download in next couple of weeks (wouldnt be supprised if it didnt come out during or just before E3).

Linky: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=191641

This sort of brings the PS3 upto where the XBox has been for the last few years and I think its about time.

I read through all the replies to the article and found some of the Fanboy comments (from either side) very funny, out of all 116 commnents I think only 1 or 2 where actually constructive!

We will just have to wait and see however if the rumours are true.

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