@BrianK

Quote:

I believe NVIDIA bought Ageia?

Nvidia has bought Ageia and ported PhysX middleware to CUDA processors. Nvidia plans to port PhysX to OpenCL.

Quote:

Do you know if the PhysX is running at or above the Ageia accellerator card?

I haven't looked into PPU.

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@Hammer
Thanks for the info.


@BigD
Lou has the info for you. In addition to the serial the box is labeled with wattage. 175w = Falcon.

Is the RRoD banished forever? I doubt it but rates have significantly improved. Don't forget the 360 does come with a 3 year warranty. If you experience the RRoD the replacement 360 comes with a new 3 year warranty. In my case my launch console was nearly 2 years old. It got it at Christmas and it died just before Christmas. My replacement console is now 1.5 years old and it has 1.5 years left on it. Effectively 5 years of coverage, assuming no RRoD. Of course if RRoD happens well 7 years...

Plus hey I got to use the PS3 more for those 3 weeks to replace the 360. Part of the delay was I called at 11PM Friday which means I didn't see a box until early the next week. I think I saw it on Tuesday. Don't recall and it's in some thread here someplace if you want to read my experience. I guess now they allow you to ship in your own box.

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @BrianK Quote: I believe NVIDIA bought Ageia? Nvidia has bought Ageia and ported PhysX middleware to CUDA processors. Nvidia plans to port PhysX to OpenCL.

Yes, that middleware has even been ported to the Wii!

Quote:

Maybe it was that snazzy commercial or those poor souls who confused it with Dead Space, but Killzone 2 has set a sales record, becoming the fastest first-party PS3 title to reach 500,000 units sold. Scott Steinberg, VP of Product Marketing at SCEA, added that the game is the highest-selling SCEA PS3 title for the first 30 days out of launch, saying the company was "extremely happy with the results." Now, let the comment debate over why Killzone 2 should have sold more (or less) commence!

LOL!

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/09/killzone-2-has-speedy-run-to-500k-sold/

@all

Quote:

Sony really wants to highlight the strength of the PlayStation 2 platform since the strength of the PlayStation 3 platform is virtually nonexistent. Microsoft (NASDAQ: MSFT) and Nintendo (OTC: NTDOY) are really destroying Sony with their consoles. Nintendo is doing the most destroying via the Wii, but don't discount the effect of the Xbox 360. Microsoft has built that console into a franchise powerhouse, and the company's pricing strategy has helped it to remain competitive.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/04/01/sony-still-behind-the-playstation-2-what-about-playstation-3/

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@all

Sony's Latest Hallucination: The PS2 Competes With The Wii

http://www.businessinsider.com/sorry-sony-the-ps2-doesnt-compete-with-the-wii-2009-4

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Sony's Latest Hallucination: The PS2 Competes With The Wii http://www.businessinsider.com/sorry-sony-the-ps2-doesnt-compete-with-the-wii-2009-4

The way the consoles are compared here appears to be on the performance of the hardware. I'd say the PS2 is closer to performance to the Wii than the PS3 is close to the performance of the Wii. Afterall the PS3 has 2Teraflops of processing power. Of course how the PS2 stacks against the Wii in HW makes 0 difference to the market. They want the games they want. They see the PS2 as old and Wii is new.

The market clearly sees the Wii is better. In the last year VGChartz shows
PS2 118K grown 124K, delta 6K units
PS3 12K grown to 21K, delta 9K units
360 18K grown to 29K, delta 11K units
Wii 24K grown to 49K, delta 25K units

The evidence is here the PS2 is a dying platform. I think the $99 lower price will help convince broken PS2 owners to buy a PS2 and keep out of the Wii. But, if someone is looking for a new machine, the odds show they'll get a Wii.

Snips from a nice PM I received from a games developer:

"Just wanted to let you know that I consider your knowledge of the PS3 to be top notch"

"With your level of knowledge, I'm surprised you're "not" a PS3 developer, actually. "

Cool

@MikeB

Didn't factor in RSX's pixel shader stall during texture fetch during RSX's GFLOPS calcs?

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@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @Hammer Quote: Hammer wrote: @Lou [quote] Ok, now show me one game that does both. This is my point. Even the PS3 can high-light particular technical superiorities over the 360, but show me games that actually use it all. This is where the 360 shines over the PS3, this is where the SNES shines over the Amiga. One problem, the SPE is between the CPU and GPU (cited Radeon X1900) in programmability and instruction set math specialization. Quote: On paper, the orignal Xbox was superior to the Gamecube in every way, in actuallity, the Gamecube pushed more in-game real-world polygons. The system has to be balance i.e. Xbox1 was capable of Doom3, FarCry Instinct. DeadSpace demo on the original Xbox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOBsih6Os0 DeadSpace on Wii http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNYwpbrtdlE&feature=related Quote: Yes, we should look at the system as a whole, I agree. I'm amazed that you semi-defended the PS3 there. But infact, that is my point and that is why the PS3 is not superior to the 360 when looked at as a whole system. Like the lead designer of IBM’s PPE CPU, I take the view that both Xbox 360 and PS3 are about even.

I still see the 360 as the superior system for gaming because the overall system design seems better designed where as the PS3 seems like you always need to work around bottlenecks... The PS3 is for people who don't want to buy a gaming console AND a blu ray player...

Nice footage though, Dead Space Extraction looks interesting...[/quote]

On Xbox 360 vs PS3 from Dave Shippy. Refer to http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3904/processing_the_truth_an_interview_.php?print=1

To quote;
"I'm going to have to answer with an 'it depends,'" laughs Shippy, after a pause. "Again, they're completely different models. So in the PS3, you've got this Cell chip which has massive parallel processing power, the PowerPC core, multiple SPU cores… it's got a GPU that is, in the model here, processing more in the Cell chip and less in the GPU. So that's one processing paradigm -- a heterogeneous paradigm."

"With the Xbox 360, you've got more of a traditional multi-core system, and you've got three PowerPC cores, each of them having dual threads -- so you've got six threads running there, at least in the CPU. Six threads in Xbox 360, and eight or nine threads in the PS3 -- but then you've got to factor in the GPU," Shippy explains. "The GPU is highly sophisticated in the Xbox 360."

He concludes: "At the end of the day, when you put them all together, depending on the software, I think they're pretty equal, even though they're completely different processing models."

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@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: Good reading material from GDC 2009: * A Killzone 2 Case Study: http://cmpmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/vault/gdc09/slides/GDC2009-vdLeeuw-KZ2SPUsCaseStudy.pdf Insomniac: * Physics: http://www.gdconf.com/conference/Tutorial%20Handouts/200_insomniac/gdc09_insomniac_physics.pdf * Prelighting: http://www.gdconf.com/conference/Tutorial%20Handouts/200_insomniac/gdc09_insomniac_prelighting.pdf * Software for Cell: http://www.gdconf.com/conference/Tutorial%20Handouts/200_insomniac/gdc09_insomniac_software_for_the_cell.pdf * Gameplay: http://www.gdconf.com/conference/Tutorial%20Handouts/200_insomniac/gdc09_insomniac_spu_gameplay.pdf * SPU Wrangling: http://www.gdconf.com/conference/Tutorial%20Handouts/200_insomniac/gdc09_insomniac_spu_wrangling.pdf

Insomniac talks about SPEs processing vertex cull.

From http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7468726.html
we have 2006 NVIDIA graphic processor patent processing vertex cull i.e. reduces the number of primitives or vertices delivered to downstream units. It has references to programable geometry shaders i.e. refers to Geforce 8 class GPUs (Nov 2006 release). This example is a PC’s DX10 approach.

Refer to http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/9
Beyond3D's "ATI Xenos: Xbox 360 Graphics Demystified". Due to ATI Xenos's unified shaders design, pixel kill instructions can be use to kill vertices. This example is a Xbox 360's approach.

This shows different methods in reaching the same goal.

Mike, do you realise why ATI and NVidia constantly design and release new GPUs and this is not your grandad Amiga vs Atari ST type battles.

Last edited by Hammer on 12-Apr-2009 at 10:27 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Apr-2009 at 10:04 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Apr-2009 at 10:02 PM.

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@Hammer

I would like to take a simple approach to all this techno mumble jumbo... if the 360 can do Killzone 2, I will be convinced the consoles are about equal... but I doubt it.

I also believe that once God Of War III and Unchartered II are released, it may quieten the skeptics... technically they look better than Killzone 2...

I think we'll see a lot more from the PS3. I still find it hard to believe the 360 has the bandwidth to pump 1080p 60fps visuals as found in GT5 Prologue...

Am I wrong?

ALSO... and I seem to repreat myself in other forums about this too... a reminder with regards to sales numbers...

1] PS3 was released a year after the 360 was... and yet, today, the PS3 is about 7 million units behind the 360 in total sales, quite a nice achievement... personally, I think this gap will continue to close...

2] 360 is cheaper... but not for long :)

3] Christmas bundle with Uncharted II and a price of $299 (we can dream), sales should explode... if not continue to catch the 360 overall

4] Wii is for the masses... its a toy; a door stop... after getting tired of it; how many Wii's are actually in constant usage... I read recently that a survey was conducted across all 3 console user-types, and the PS3 comes out on top with the most hours of usage according to that survey...

5] Lest not forget point 5... WHY...

Wii and 360 are both HACKABLE... so combine the facts that both Wii and 360 are cheaper, AND, both lumps of plastic are hackable...

(In countries like Malaysia Wii and 360 titles can be picked up for about 5 bucks)

Well, the picture is pretty clear why the PS3 may still be behind in sales...

---Just added--- latest sales figures from Japan!

DSi: 53,680 - Down 3,721 (6.48%)
PSP: 48,118 - Down 6,030 (11.14%)
PS3: 20,362 - Down 2,463 (10.79%)
Wii: 15,525 - Down 1,751 (10.14%)
DS Lite: 8,729 - Up 321 (3.82%)
Xbox 360: 7,812 - Up 2,963 (61.11%)
PS2: 5,394 148 - Up (2.82%)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 13-Apr-2009 at 05:12 PM.
Last edited by QuBe on 13-Apr-2009 at 05:06 PM.
Last edited by QuBe on 13-Apr-2009 at 05:05 PM.

@QuBe

Wii is for masses... clearly yes.
Wii becomes a door stop after initial enthusiasm... yes but just because most of the programmers are not managing to pull anything worthy out of it and Masses are not used to read reviews before buying a game, that lefts them with crappy games and a dusty console.

Yes Wii is hackable and lets us play Quake in a way that makes it freshier and more enjoyable than let's say F.E.A.R. (One of the most boring FPS I've ever played on a PC). I don't know if PS3 can revive old games in such a way...

And... perhaps you are calling it lump of plastic just because both CPU and GPU are weaker in comparison... yes of course they are! They are also cheaper and consume less...
The Revolution is no more about GFX chipsets and fast CPUs... everybody is capable of doing it, even my cheap PC is able to pull out Assassin's Creed and Gears of War but is the PS3 capable of letting you enjoyng games in a such different way?

But everything will be clear to everybody when both Microsoft and Sony will release new consoles with motion control devices like the Wii featured one generation before.

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@QuBe

Quote:

1] PS3 was released a year after the 360 was... and yet, today, the PS3 is about 7 million units behind the 360 in total sales, quite a nice achievement... personally, I think this gap will continue to close...

I predicted 2008 as the year for the PS3 to pull ahead. It didn't. Without a price cut in a down economy we see the 360 has been pulling further ahead of the PS3. Actually quite a nice acheivement for being a year older and still able to advance in sales.

Quote:

360 is cheaper... but not for long :)

I too hoped for a PS3 pricecut. Perhaps Sony learned their lesson last Christmas and will wait to announce a cut just entering the highly competitive Christmas Season. Of course, whose to say the 360 won't respond in kind? Or maybe worse, slip some Xbox3 news...

Quote:

I read recently that a survey was conducted across all 3 console user-types, and the PS3 comes out on top with the most hours of usage according to that survey

Is this the survey you mean? Usage minute % (is this what you mean by hours) is the lowest for the PS3 and highest for the PS2. See page 6.

Last edited by BrianK on 14-Apr-2009 at 05:30 AM.
Last edited by BrianK on 14-Apr-2009 at 03:49 AM.

@QuBe

Quote:

QuBe wrote: @Hammer I would like to take a simple approach to all this techno mumble jumbo... if the 360 can do Killzone 2, I will be convinced the consoles are about equal... but I doubt it. I also believe that once God Of War III and Unchartered II are released, it may quieten the skeptics... technically they look better than Killzone 2... I think we'll see a lot more from the PS3. I still find it hard to believe the 360 has the bandwidth to pump 1080p 60fps visuals as found in GT5 Prologue... Am I wrong?

Is it so hard to do an FMV background with a 3D foreground?
GoW series on the PS2 was actually not that technical when broken down. The characters were pre-rendered and limited to 8 directional movement instead of true analog 3D. Given the weaker mememory configuration of the PS3 over the 360, I totally expect FMV background streaming from BluRay over (this time) a true 3D foreground...

Given that the 360 can do HD installs now, I am sure if could do those games and use 1 DVD for FMV storage+streaming.

As for GT...hopefully the will get rid of the paper-board cut-out crowds that were in GT Prologue. That series always used lower resolutions as a way to enable added lighting effects to enchance realism. I expect no different. While the final output may be 1080p, I still exect the target render to be 720p at best...afterall, it won't have to deal with citizens and as many vehicles as GTA4 did...

meanwhile, behind the fascade of this innocent looking thread...

This will be the #1 game in sales this year.

@ErikBauer

Look, I have to agree that if any hardware is pushed, really pushed some amazing things can be done with it... just look at the Amiga for proof.

With regards to enjoying games and playing them in a refreshing type of way, wasn't the six axis supposed to helped here. I have really enjoyed games such as "Flow" and "Flower"... fantastically original titles.

Actually, come to think about it; the Wii could have had titles like this, maybe not at the same resolution, or the same number of objects on screen at once, but it could have done them and used the "revolutionary" Wii-mote (ouch, pitch nerve!) for control purposes...

Still, let us all look 2-5 years from now... I think Sony will be the biggest player again, and everything now will be a distant memory...

Q!

"i am home"

@BrianK

I think the PS3 will pull ahead... just a matter of time lol!

Yes, no doubt it is a great achievement for Sony to have done what they have done. I feel though that HOME is not progressing quickly enough and is not integrated well enough into overall XMB functionality; but that is for another dicussion... I have some ideas of what I would have liked to see to be honest...

Price cut should come, and probably with a special bundle... infact what I predict is this...

1] Slim PS3
2] $299
3] Uncharted II or GoW III or GT5

...if the above happens, sales will explode. I also predict that Sony is playing a waiting game, waiting for the economy to turn... :) Christmas 09 is good, but Easter 2010, would be even better as economic recovery should be well under way...

Expect some announcements at E3, both for PsP2 and, possibly, indications of a PS3 price cut or special bundle...

...seems I got the survey wrong hey?

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 14-Apr-2009 at 12:49 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Given the weaker mememory configuration of the PS3 over the 360, I totally expect FMV background streaming from BluRay over (this time) a true 3D foreground...

No Lou, I don't think that is correct. Briefly, look at the technicals... there is streaming going on, Guerrilla have admitted this, but the streaming is only done to load up chunks of data at a time for processing; that is for the single player campaign only...

...as you have noticed, there is almost no loading times between levels... only a momentary pause... hehe something even the Amiga did better LOL - wonderful DMA capabilities the Amiga had... indeed! But I don't think they are streaming the background, definitely not!

Now, consider the multiplayer component... once the level has loaded, it has loaded, some of the outdoor maps are huge... the one with wind and dust; can't remember its name now... and that chugs along nicely with all the effects and 32 players...

Consider MAG, this games has 256 players on screen at any one time, and the maps are much bigger than KZ2... maybe we are seeing awesome compression routines decompressing data on the fly using the SPU's... Sony must have some tricks up its sleeves...

GT5 Prologue is already at 1080p; natively as my monitor is absolutely crisp at this resolution... there is no fudging or blurriness you get at 720p when the pixel resolution is lower than the native resolution of your screen, especially my DELL 1900x1200 LCD computer monitor. I can tell immediately when the PS3 flicks between 1080p and 720p. My XMB is 1080p native as well, as this is the starting resolution... this doesn't change when I boot up Prologue.

I notice though that in Prologue anti-aliasing is non-existent... understandable because of the bandwidth and processing overheads at rendering the game engine at 1080p natively... but wait, final release may be different... as Polyphonic continue to optimise their master piece...

Q!

"i am home"

@QuBe

Quote:

QuBe wrote: @Lou Quote: Given the weaker mememory configuration of the PS3 over the 360, I totally expect FMV background streaming from BluRay over (this time) a true 3D foreground... No Lou, I don't think that is correct. Briefly, look at the technicals... there is streaming going on, Guerrilla have admitted this, but the streaming is only done to load up chunks of data at a time for processing; that is for the single player campaign only... ...as you have noticed, there is almost no loading times between levels... only a momentary pause... hehe something even the Amiga did better LOL - wonderful DMA capabilities the Amiga had... indeed! But I don't think they are streaming the background, definitely not! Now, consider the multiplayer component... once the level has loaded, it has loaded, some of the outdoor maps are huge... the one with wind and dust; can't remember its name now... and that chugs along nicely with all the effects and 32 players... Consider MAG, this games has 256 players on screen at any one time, and the maps are much bigger than KZ2... maybe we are seeing awesome compression routines decompressing data on the fly using the SPU's... Sony must have some tricks up its sleeves... GT5 Prologue is already at 1080p; natively as my monitor is absolutely crisp at this resolution... there is no fudging or blurriness you get at 720p when the pixel resolution is lower than the native resolution of your screen, especially my DELL 1900x1200 LCD computer monitor. I can tell immediately when the PS3 flicks between 1080p and 720p. My XMB is 1080p native as well, as this is the starting resolution... this doesn't change when I boot up Prologue. I notice though that in Prologue anti-aliasing is non-existent... understandable because of the bandwidth and processing overheads at rendering the game engine at 1080p natively... but wait, final release may be different... as Polyphonic continue to optimise their master piece... Q! "i am home"

Perhaps they will all sell 500k like KZ2 did in first 30 days.