@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @jkirk Quote: jkirk wrote: @AMiGR [quote] i understand what you are saying but in this case you have two choices. does "us" hint at the trinity or does it hint at god and his angels? either way is a valid point. Another theory is 'us' indicates God and other gods. The oldest hebrew text uses the plural, elohim, not the singular, eloah. Various Christian sects did accept polytheism..

i wasn't going to go that far since that is basically what the trinity is but yes that could be gathered from the text.

Last edited by jkirk on 25-May-2005 at 09:14 PM.

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@Peg

Quote:

Hi Wiffy What is the whole set of circumstances that allow a member to have an unmoderated thread anyway I've been following this thread since its start and just wondered

Its complex. Firstly the moderation has been reasonably tight in free-for-all for a while and I felt it was about time some of the resentments were allowed to boil to the surface figuring I would either get consensus on how to moderate free-for-all or that people would get it out of their systems a bit, or that people would pretty much prove they could moderate themselves.

The last one sounded a bit patronising but what I mean is, with tight moderation on the rest of the site, a part of it where people can blow off a bit of tension isn't harmful.

Quote:

Also, I notice your title of Team Administrator but you aren't listed, nor is any other team administrator listed on the About Us page. Whats up with that

Its a plot, Ive also got one of the semi dissected corpses from Roswell here. Sorry, thats flippant, note I am no longer site server admin, Im an administrator, which is a different role.

The reason about us is not up to date is because its not up to date and no one has the time or inclination yet to fix it. Plus I don't know if this position is temporary or permenant yet.

@jkirk

I will move the thread into our special trashcan forum, leave a PM in his inbox, and ask him if he wants to see it. If he does, then I will move it into free-for-all for him to read through and reply.

If not, it stays there. I think thats the fairest for all. Im open to suggestions though.

Im also tempted to say that any user can request a moderation free zone thread in free-for-all, although Im not sure it will automatically be granted.

well then, before this thread is consigned to obscurity, let me quote:


Quote:

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -- Thomas Jefferson

_________________
"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

@cecilia

Re: Thomas Jefferson.

Ohh, that is a good quote. Me like! Me like lots!

Seriously, it seems the Yanks were extremely fortunate in their choice of people to write the stirring, oratory sort of stuff when their country was founded. My fav TJ quote would have to be "The tree of liberty must be renewed with the blood of patriots and tyrants" (Or however it goes, I think I got the tobe right). Sums it all up nicely don't you think, and proves that there is nothing more dearly purchased than freedom.



Doug

_________________
logicalheart wrote:
You know that pretty sound you play when the computer starts?
You need another one to play when the computer is actually ready to use.
Maybe add more for malfunctions and then we'll have music all day.

@DJRJ

oh, i love his quotes. try these on:

Quote:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)

Quote:

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one. - Thomas Jefferson

Quote:

"The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach." - Thomas Jefferson

Quote:

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites." Thomas Jefferson

Quote:

"Information is the currency of democracy." -- Thomas Jefferson

_________________
"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

Wow, what a relief!

I just wandered across this thread for my first time, it's already fifteen pages long!
As I read the topic and opened the thread, I was prepared for the worst.. Bracing myself, I read on.
What a light topic! I was relieved to see that it's just about a bit of church vs church debate.
I expected much worse.. I expected (especially at 15 pages) to see a bloody debate on
AOne vs Pegasos, OS4 vs MOS.. You know, the REALLY nasty stuff!

There may be hope for us all yet!

LyleHaze

_________________
question=(2b||!(2b))

Hi all,


Some feel that I'm being rude, or even bullying my ideals onto others.

Tell me, if I'm actually right about my statements, am I still being offensive?

Is the truth offensive? Too bad.


I found it VERY offensive when I heard about Catholic priests molesting young boys, and then the even MORE DISPICABLE truth that the clergy KEPT IT HIDDEN and chose to SHUFLLE AROUND the OFFENDING villians, then, spent EVERY CENT THEY HAD on lawyers DEFENDING scumbags!!!!! Then they filed for bankruptcy and the victims got diddly squat.

I would be very offened if I donated money to them to only later find out how it was being used! In fact, all that donated to those orders should be able to get a refund ... and interest.

MOST of that garbage even got off with light to no prison time because they were "old and frail" by the time the law caught up to them.


Yup, the lowest of the low.


The church, well, any church will stop at nothing to survive. Those that are here today, stopped at nothing.


Survival of the fittest, even theology is forced to live or die by that standard.

Hi AMiGR, nicholas,


Guys, guys, stop, my heads going to explode!


You know, I just can't make anything of this.


Science is just nice and straight forward, thank you very much.


All these factions, and subsets, it's making my head spin. People with the same god, arguing, and also fighting wars with each other, and all parties know that killing is most foul in the eyes of god, and yet the priests are right there on the front lines, supporting the war effort. There for comfort and encouragement. Well, not QUITE on the front lines, the suckers are on the very front lines.

And, the church leaders back home, conspire with, or control the actions of the governments.

Am I offending anybody yet? This has never ever happened before? Is it different today, now?


There's more.....

Again, I'm here to discuss the truth.

@Atheist

You're not offending me of course but I understand the point of you of the people that do get offended. "God and religion sucks" is the same as Billsey's BS.

_________________

@Atheist
Quote:

I found it VERY offensive when I heard about Catholic priests molesting young boys, and then the even MORE DISPICABLE truth that the clergy KEPT IT HIDDEN and chose to SHUFLLE AROUND the OFFENDING villians, then, spent EVERY CENT THEY HAD on lawyers DEFENDING scumbags!!!!! Then they filed for bankruptcy and the victims got diddly squat.

I think what's doubly offensive is the new Pope appears to be one of the higher ups that were involved in the coverups and the shuffling.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kmgh/20050427/lo_kprc/2688870
Quote:

The pope was added to the lawsuit earlier this year, before he became pontiff, because of a letter he wrote in May 2001. The letter to bishops states, "cases of this kind are subject to the pontifical secret."

Here's a Wikipedia link for those who want to read more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Cardinal_Ratzinger#Response_to_sex_abuse_scandal
Quote:

Regarding the Roman Catholic Church sex abuse scandal, he was seen by critics as at best, indifferent to the abuse and at worst, complicit in covering it up, both in specific cases and as a matter of policy. As prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), such abuses were ultimately his responsibility to investigate within the Church

It appears investigations did not occur.
Quote:

In 2002, Ratzinger told Catholic News Service that "less than one percent of priests are guilty of acts of this type."

That may be but it doesn't excuse the lack of action against that 1%.

(On Dark Sarcasm) The church has a long history of sex with youth.. Afterall, Christianity was started by God impregnanting a minor. (Off Dark Sarcasm)


@cecilia
Some more...
Quote:

Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry. -- Thomas Jefferson

Quote:

this would be the best of worlds if there were no religion in it. -- Thomas Jefferson

Quote:

The priests of the different religious sects ... dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight, and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subdivision of the duperies on which they live. -- Thomas Jefferson

@Atheist

Quote:

All these factions, and subsets, it's making my head spin. People with the same god, arguing, and also fighting wars with each other, and all parties know that killing is most foul in the eyes of god, and yet the priests are right there on the front lines, supporting the war effort. There for comfort and encouragement. Well, not QUITE on the front lines, the suckers are on the very front lines.

Talk about religious leaders supporting the war effort. In Isreal this year an unheard of meeting was held between Judaic, Christian, and Muslim leaders. Why'd they get together to denounce the Gay Pride parade.... That's right we all hate each other's concept of God but really it's just a small thing and can be put aside so we can join together to hate the gays.

@all

I think Billsey has been given ample time to put in his 2 cents here. I'm just glad that this discussion didn't turn into something like the red vs. blue wars. But this qualifies Billsey as a troll in my book -- stirring up trouble and then walking away --

Moderated by Wiffy, reason: borderline comment being edited out to allow the thread to be returned to free-for-all.

Last edited by Wiffy on 30-May-2005 at 01:54 PM.

@Atheist

There is religion, thats one thing, think of it as an organisation or a club.

There are churches, thats another thing, thats definately an organisation.

There is belief, and that is a personal thing, and may or may not involve attending churches or joining a particular religion.

Right. I've stirred up the villagers in to an angry mob with pitchforks and torches. All we are waiting on is you Billsey! Come on man, open the gates. let us in!

Last edited by DruidPoet on 26-May-2005 at 09:50 AM.

@Thread
Geez, you go away for awhile and look what happens! How fun. Wish I had the time to read it all...

And Billsley, I have belief... thats about it. The only thing I think one should stuff are peppers and mushrooms.

_________________
¤¤ Official Hyperion Zealot ¤¤

(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)

@Atheist

Quote:

Atheist wrote: I found it VERY offensive when I heard about Catholic priests molesting young boys, and then the even MORE DISPICABLE truth that the clergy KEPT IT HIDDEN and chose to SHUFLLE AROUND the OFFENDING villians, then, spent EVERY CENT THEY HAD on lawyers DEFENDING scumbags!!!!! Then they filed for bankruptcy and the victims got diddly squat. I would be very offened if I donated money to them to only later find out how it was being used! In fact, all that donated to those orders should be able to get a refund ... and interest. MOST of that garbage even got off with light to no prison time because they were "old and frail" by the time the law caught up to them. Yup, the lowest of the low.

while this is not limited to catholics i agree with your statements 100% anybody using the church(any church or religion) as a shield is dispicable especially if that person is allowed to do that. no i don't think this is too rough this is very true.

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@jkirk

The church has power, and power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Last edited by treblesix on 26-May-2005 at 11:54 AM.

_________________
Dark Lord Design Wicked Solutions For Damned Problems

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Talk about religious leaders supporting the war effort. In Isreal this year an unheard of meeting was held between Judaic, Christian, and Muslim leaders. Why'd they get together to denounce the Gay Pride parade.... That's right we all hate each other's concept of God but really it's just a small thing and can be put aside so we can join together to hate the gays.

Don't be too hasty in dismissing this as just "one of those things". This could be the THE secret to a lasting peace in the Middle East, and it would be a shame to lose it. All we have to do is give those jokers something to unite against in hatred and rage and they'll see that their differences are truely minor ones.

Of course we do have to find a suitable test for this idea. I suggest that next year's Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras be moved to a new venue, just to see how things work out. How does Jerusalem sound? If nothing else, the sounds of heart attacks and cerebral haemorrhages from the more theologically and socially inflexible should provide no small amount of amusement.



Doug

P.S - For the humour impaired, the above was meant as a joke. Say it with me, "J", "O", "K" and "E", which is pronouced, "John Howard".

Oops! Sorry about that, I didn't mean to lower the tone of the conversation so dramatically like that and I promise to not mention our lying sack of sh!t, Prime Miniature in this thread again.

_________________
logicalheart wrote:
You know that pretty sound you play when the computer starts?
You need another one to play when the computer is actually ready to use.
Maybe add more for malfunctions and then we'll have music all day.

@BrianK

Quote:

That's right we all hate each other's concept of God but really it's just a small thing

afaik at least between judaic and christian religions the god in one is the same as the god in the other. the only thing of contention is judaic if they recognize him at all see jesus as a good man and still await the arrival of the son of god. in the muslim religion afaik the same god is worshipped but under a different name and the major prophet(similar to jesus christ) is also named differently. so there is not much difference between the three fundamentally where the get hung up on is the details.

p.s. any muslim out there is what i say accurate? i don't know much about the muslem faith.

_________________
Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.