It seems Microsoft in reply to a pending Class Action Lawsuit currently being prepared has extended its 360 warranty to now cover E74 errors. E74 errors are basically RRoD's (general hardware failure) in disguise, which were previously not covered by Microsoft's extended warranty.

Last edited by MikeB on 14-Apr-2009 at 01:32 PM.

@QuBe

Of course Wii also has this kind of titles, let me just name Lost Winds.
And yes, I know about Sixaxis but it's grip is quite unfriendly for playing Golf, Tennis or Baseball or for swordplay but it has been an innovation nonetheless and this and this is surely a plus for Sony.

Sony being the biggest player again in 2-5 years? Maybe yes, Sony is a big name in gaming industry, but Nintendo is surely (and hopefully) using Wii's moneyflow to project and launch an evolution of the Wii, maybe with improved controllers and better technical specs to please even those who like gorgeous graphix.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@QuBe

Quote:

I would like to take a simple approach to all this techno mumble jumbo... if the 360 can do Killzone 2, I will be convinced the consoles are about equal... but I doubt it.

Like Killzone2, CryEngine 3 (Xbox 360, PS3, DX9 PC, DX10 PC) implements deferred rendering (for lights) methods.

Quote:

I think we'll see a lot more from the PS3. I still find it hard to believe the 360 has the bandwidth to pump 1080p 60fps visuals as found in GT5 Prologue... Am I wrong? .

GT5 Prologue (demo) = 1080p mode is 1280x1080 (2xAA) in-game while the garage/pit/showrooms are 1920x1080 with no AA. 720p mode is 1280x720 (4xAA)

Not quite 1920x1080.

List of Game Rendering Resolutions
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

As with any 8 ROPS equipped GPUs(e.g. NV RSX/7600/7700, NV Geforce 8600 GT/8700/9500/GT 120, ATI Radeon HD 46x0 ), ATI Xenos can render at 1920x1080.

Both Xbox 360 and PS3 render 'Fifa Street 3' at
X360 = 1920x1080 (with 4xAA)
PS3 = 1920x1080 (with no AA)

Radeon HD 4670’s 320 streams + 8 ROPS wouldn’t beat Radeon HD 3870’s 320 streams + 16 ROPS when you increase the screen resolution and any other bandwidth dependant effects.

It would be interesting to see if NV and ATI can fit 16 usable ROPS with mainstream 128bit GDDR3 memory model.

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_________________
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@Hammer

Thanks for the factoids Hammer; interesting reading. Are we saying then that the PS3 is actually weaker graphically overall, compared to the PS3?

Also, do you think technically the PS3 has more to give. Considering what coders do with the Amiga today, and how much they continue to squeeze out of it; can we continue seeing better and better code for the hardware in the next 5-10 years?

Q!

"i am home"

@QuBe

Quote:

Thanks for the factoids Hammer; interesting reading. Are we saying then that the PS3 is actually weaker graphically overall, compared to the PS3?

Do you mean "PS3 is actually weaker graphically overall, compared to the Xbox 360"?

To quote Dave Shippy, "it depends".

Read http://www.developmag.com/tutorials/141/BUILD-Defered-rendering
about the impact of "deferred rendering". It has advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages of using deferred rendering for lighting and I quote
"Because you project your lights into the scene as a post-process, you’re not lighting any pixels that are hidden behind any other pixels".

Prior to Radeon HD 46x0, this method is nice for mainstream GPUs. Note why Killzone 2 and Cryengine 3 uses this method i.e. for lights, it’s an efficient method.

Far Cry 2’s also uses deferred rendering methods and was fast on my (burnt-out) NVIDIA Geforce 8600M GT 256MB (replaced with Geforce 9500M GS 512MB).

Quote:

Also, do you think technically the PS3 has more to give. Considering what coders do with the Amiga today, and how much they continue to squeeze out of it; can we continue seeing better and better code for the hardware in the next 5-10 years?

Depends on the future programmed code. In 5 to 10 years, DX11(Q4 2009) and DX12 would have past by. Today's demo scene is competing against ATI, NVIDIA and soon Intel "corporate" demos.

For example, http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38145/135/
"Watch out, Larrabee: Radeon 4800 supports a 100% ray-traced pipeline"
ATI Radeon 2900XT was used to raytrace in realtime the Transformers movie trailers.

Compare that to PS3's raytracing results from
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Raytrace+PS3&aq=f

There are limits to what PS3 can deliver. Baring Intel jumping in, Xbox's and Playstation's futures are linked to what NVIDIA and AMD(ATI) do in the future.

With Xbox 360's Halo 3, to workaround FP10 HDR limitations they render two HDR screens per frame. A brute force approach and may not be a smart one. This puts pressure on the 10MB "Smart" eDRAM (Xenos's NEC built pixel co-processor) which resulted in lower than 720p output.

They could have use Logluv HDR i.e. one of methods enabling hardware AA and HDR on PS3. But nothing is free and therefore the pressure is placed on the shaders.
In Microsoft's XNA network, programmers are adapting PS3's Logluv HDR methods on Xbox 360.

Console optimisations benefit everybody e.g. HAWK's enabling HDR + AA on Radeon X700 i.e. you don't see this everyday with the standard DX9 code.

On the side note, NVIDIA’s CEO and AMD’s CEO are personal friends.

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_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

The state of gaming in the US:

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/stateofvgamer_040909_fnl.pdf

Some interesting data, "The graph in Figure 2 also visually shows the engagement of the console user with the console via the active user percent. PlayStation 3 console users clearly use their consoles as a group more than any other console type we track."

I guess meaning something like of the different age groups, PS3 users use their console the most (by far when looking at the graph). However children tend to game more than adults and it just so happens the 360 has more children playing though. But a 30 year old PS3 user is likely to use his or her PS3 more than a 30 year old 360 user, or an 18 years old PS3 user more than an 18 years old 360 user.

Also interesting that a typical Wii user is 6-11 years old for the US according to Nielsen, just like for the GameCube. I knew this was the case for the GameCube based on a Nintendo study, but I thought it would be a bit different for the Wii. Seems like grandmas and grandpas aren't using their Wii enough to be relevant?

A typical 360 user is 12-17 and a typical PS3 user is a young adult. That's not surprising though.

@MikeB

Wasn't that report recently updated to reflect more accurate Wii #'s?

@Lou

Yes, this is the updated version. For example PS3 is now above XBox in terms of total usage (the US was by far the original XBox most important market), that wasn't the case for the faulty version.

@all

GameStop Wants Cheaper Consoles...

Quote:

Dan DeMatteo notes that he'd particularly like to see a cut in the price of Sony's [SNE 24.88 -0.12 (-0.48%) ] PlayStation 3, which at $399 is the most expensive game machine on the market. "That price point is clearly an issue in this economy," he says. Sony has repeatedly said it has no plans to reduce the price of the PS3. Despite these declarations, however, the company is widely expected to announce a price cut at or prior to E3, the industry's annual trade show in June. The big debate is whether the cut will be $50 or $100. "I don't know that $50 gets you that much," DeMatteo said. Sony did reduce the price of the PlayStation 2 in late March, but DeMatteo says the move came a year too late. "To be honest, it really wasn't worth doing," he says. "If they'd done it earlier, publishers probably would have kept making games for the PS2, but once they've stopped, they've stopped."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30233636/

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 16-Apr-2009 at 04:25 PM.

_________________
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EFIKA owner
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@MikeB

Quote:

For example PS3 is now above XBox in terms of total usage (the US was by far the original XBox most important market), that wasn't the case for the faulty version

Good to see the PS3 finally ahead of the last place Xbox of last gen. Though that was only in Jan. We'll have to see if Feb the PS3 falls back. I doubt it will but the next report will be interesting.

March NPD:

-Wii: 601K -152K (-20%)
-DS: 563K -25K (-4%)
-Xbox 360: 330K -61K (-16%)
-PS3: 218K -58K (-21%)
-PSP: 168K -31K (-16%)
-PS2: 112K -30K (-15%)

Top 10 Games of March 2009

1. Resident Evil 5 - Xbox 360 - Capcom - 938K
2. Pokemon Platinum - DS - Nintendo - 805K
3. Halo Wars - Xbox 360 - Microsoft - 639K
4. Resident Evil 5 - PlayStation 3 - Capcom - 585K
5. Wii Fit - Wii - Nintendo - 541K
6. MLB '09 The Show - PlayStation 3 - Sony - 305K
7. Killzone 2 - PlayStation 3 - Sony - 296K
8. Wii Play - Wii - Nintendo - 281K
9. Mario Kart Wii - Wii - Nintendo - 278K
10. Major League Baseball 2K9 - Xbox 360 - Take 2 - 205K

* Includes Collector's, Limited and Bundled EditionsRESIDENT EVIL 5*

Last edited by Lou on 19-Apr-2009 at 02:53 PM.

Early Media Create data indicates PS3 sales boosted to about 57K for Japan last week (about triple compared to the Wii).

@Lou

Your table should include:

Source: GfK Chart Track / internal data total installed base at 31st January 2009* Including France, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Czech Republic and Australia

So much mainland Europe figures are missing, such as for Italy, Germany/Switzerland/Austria, Benelux, Poland, Russia and many other countries not represented in this data.

Last edited by MikeB on 22-Apr-2009 at 10:26 PM.

Just some randomness. Went to visit an old friend, whose kids had a 360 (their first one = dead, and out of warrantee..). The interface is ok, and I am once again reminded that Sony *still* hasn't changed their general controller layout in ages. The 360 controller isn't perfect either, but it felt slightly less contortions required for constant use of the shoulder buttons.

Rented GOW2 and Metallica/Guitar Hero/Rock Band/whichever.

GOW2 was good, but not great. I have to say, for me anyways, KZ2 > GOW2. I'd put it on par with Resistance (single player mode), but liked GOW2 co-op mode, and the cover system was decent.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@MikeB

GAME covers most of Europe and the UK is the biggest market in Europe which is covered by GAME. The countries you list won't make much of a dent on the big picture that the chart shows...

@Lou

No IMO or whatever?

IMO you should word your postings more wisely as you are wrong. Of course the UK is the biggest gaming market within Europe, but it's also a small minority of the whole EU market (let alone Europe as a whole + Russia/Turkey).

Regarding market size that document clearly shows that France + Iberia is already a bigger market than United Kingdom + Ireland.

Similarly Germany/Austria/Switzerland + Benelux + Italy is a well bigger gaming market than the United Kingdom gaming market as well. And these happen to be very strong PS3 (vs 360) markets compared to the UK and Australia. So the complete full picture of the European gaming market shows a lot of difference.

@all

To anyone in the United States, Far East, etc. not knowing what Lou & MikeB are refering to its in relation to a company primarily based in Europe:

http://www.gamegroup.plc.uk/

The full report they are taking a slide from is here:

http://www.gamegroup.plc.uk/gg/investors/reports/2009rp/prelim_09/prelim_trans.pdf

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Apr-2009 at 06:05 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Apr-2009 at 06:04 PM.

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@all

Microsoft Ups Ante Vs. Sony: New Xbox Comes With Great Free Games

http://www.businessinsider.com/xbox-elite-2009-4



Quote:

At a time Sony is resisting call after call to cut prices on the $400 PS3, Microsoft is effectively cutting prices on its own $400 top-of-the-line Xbox Elite unit by bundling in two free games with a purchase, starting May 1. And they're not just any games, they're two of the most sought-after games out there, both of them exclusive to the Xbox: Halo 3, a "shooter" and 94 on Metacritic, and Fable 2, a RPG, 89 on Metacritic. Combined, the two games retail for $100. (Both games are published by Microsoft itself.) With the Xbox already trouncing the PS3 month after month in sales, with this new deal it becomes harder for Sony's own $400 unit to compete. If Sony really can't/won't lower PS3 prices, at the very least it needs to mimic Microsoft's deal, perhaps by bundling one or more of its own highly-rated Sony-published games like Killzone 2 and/or LittleBigPlanet with a PS3 purchase. Sony was already losing the console war to Microsoft. Without some sort of response to the latest Microsoft offensive, the case for the PS3 to consumers gets weaker and weaker.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Apr-2009 at 07:35 PM.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@MikeB

GAME's chart has no fanboyistic spin.

If it's not enough of Europe (in your opinion) then we should discredit all extrapolous data gathered by sampling that has ever existed with regards to any subject matter.

Here are the facts:
1) Wii leads in USA
2) Wii leads in Japan (just hit 8 million last week)
3) Wii leads in apparently all GAME European territories combined

Opinion: The rest don't add up enough to matter...especially on a global basis as the #'s are consistent....so what are you trying to prove? That the PS3 leads in Iberia? Great! Who cares?