@Lou

Yes, the Wii leads almost everywhere. But that's not what I am interested in, I don't view the Wii (typical 6-11 year olds according to Nielsen) as competing that much with the PS3 (typical 24-35 year olds).

I like the Wii a lot, despite it's not the best console for me personally.

IMO it (and the PS2 to some extend) is the best console targeted at young kids. Most of us got introduced to computer games when we were kids.

What if there was no Wii? The PS3 is too expensive and multi-featured, kids usually won't get the most out of all those provided features. Sure there are some great family orientated games like Ratchet and LBP, but not many young kids have a HDTV and internet in their bedroom for example.

The 360 is cheap, but seriously that console is far too sensitive and failure prone for little kids to have to deal with. Lots of games like Halo 3 have limited value without having online and you even have to subscribe for that! (thinking of some little boys, I don't imagine little girls wanting to play Gear of War or Halo) So, IMO not a very kid friendly or kid targeted console as well.

If I would buy a console for my kids (which I don't have yet), it would most likely be a Wii!

@MikeB

Quote:

Yes, the Wii leads almost everywhere. But that's not what I am interested in, I don't view the Wii (typical 6-11 year olds according to Nielsen) as competing that much with the PS3 (typical 24-35 year olds).

Developers will go where the consumers are. Stores give more shelf space to the console that is going to sell to more people. You are allowed to like what you want to like. But trying to "craft" statistics to make you feel better about where your PS3 is on these lists is pointless.

Quote:

The 360 is cheap, but seriously that console is far too sensitive and failure prone for little kids to have to deal with.

You make it sound as if adult users have to (and are expected to) crack open the case every day and adjust some knobs inside to avoid an error in the box. Thats simply not the case. If a unit dies under warranty mommy and daddy send it in for repair. If it dies outside of warranty its still half the price of a PS3 and only double the price of an antiquated PS2. When a PS3 dies out of warranty mommy and daddy scream in terror at all the money lost. And thats not even touching on the fact that you grossly continually overstate the failure rate. Continually the only one of my consoles that ever freezes is my PS3.

Quote:

Lots of games like Halo 3 have limited value without having online

So you are arguing that PS3 has a better offline experience record?

Fallout3, while not a kid's game shows a good example of where the PS3 is hurting when it comes to extending offline gaming experiences. Even if a title is lucky enough for the developers to bother with a PS3 version, it may not get the full experience of DLC for other versions.

Which is why I have Fallout 3, but not for my PS3.

Meanwhile PS3 owners have to resort to making petitions. Oh how the mighty Sony has fallen. As a Sony investor I find it pathetic and embarassing. * sigh *

You can add you name to the petition here if you have not already:

http://www.petitiononline.com/Wave360/petition.html

The bottom line point, the Wii and the Xbox 360 are in no jeopardy. The PS3 on the other hand has a much more uncertain future.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-Apr-2009 at 12:52 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-Apr-2009 at 12:51 AM.

_________________
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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Developers will go where the consumers are.

1) PS3 + 360 + PC > Wii

That's how many multi-platform publishers look at this.

2) For first parties this is less relavant.

It won't get Halo or Killzone 2 on the Wii

3) Then there's the question: "What type of game would you like to make?"

As developers fall in the mature age group themselves as well, they often prefer to create games they themselves would like to play.

Quote:

The PS3 on the other hand has a much more uncertain future.

Not really, the PS3 again has the strongest line-up of exclusive games this year. Relatively more so than last year, as the 360's and Wii's line-up of hardcore games this year are weak.

The PS3 despite higher entry pricing is tracking well better than the 360 and PS1 performed from launch. We know the PS1 sold over 100 million eventually, the future is looking bright for the PS3.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Apr-2009 at 01:13 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Yes, the Wii leads almost everywhere. But that's not what I am interested in, I don't view the Wii (typical 6-11 year olds according to Nielsen) as competing that much with the PS3 (typical 24-35 year olds).

Is this because the 6 year old's dollars are proving more profitable than the 36 year old's dollars?

Quote:

Lots of games like Halo 3 have limited value without having online and you even have to subscribe for that! (thinking of some little boys, I don't imagine little girls wanting to play Gear of War or Halo) So, IMO not a very kid friendly or kid targeted console as well.

So do you believe your sexist view that girls don't want to play at killing? Yet tens of thousands of Barbies a year are maimed and mutalated. 360 has a number of kid games. Take a look at the games one can purchase online. Viva Pinata, Lego Star Wars, Katamari, Cars, Rock Band, and Sonic are but a few. Also, you have Barbie Horse Adventures and others from the original Xbox. Too bad the PS3 dropped backwards compatibility. It could have carried forward the kids games from the PS2.

Why buy a console for kids? They could use my Jaguar, or PS2, or PS1, or Amiga.

Quote:

Not really, the PS3 again has the strongest line-up of exclusive games this year. Relatively more so than last year, as the 360's and Wii's line-up of hardcore games this year are weak.

You said this last year too and well the PS3 didn't make the cut. Looking at sales for the first 4 months of this year the PS3 is still behind. It's had a couple of small wins but nothing to realistically gain any ground on either the Wii or the 360. Worldwide the economy is down. Wii or 360 provides a more conservative investment.

I too used to think the PS3 might pull ahead. I now think it's future lies as the low cost leader vs the Wii2 and Xbox3.

Last edited by BrianK on 24-Apr-2009 at 04:27 AM.

@MikeB

Before I begin with a response I'm going to remind you that you did not respond to what I said in regard to your statement that the xbox 360 is:

Quote:

cheap, but seriously that console is far too sensitive and failure prone for little kids to have to deal with.

I still want to know what adults do to mitigate the "sensitivity" of their 360s as you call it that escapes the grasp and/or ability of a young child. Nor have you qualified how the failure of this particular toy, vs. any other one that small children might play with is somehow the small child's to deal with instead of the parent's ultimately.

I would suspect you chose not to answer because deep down you know that you took a bit of creative license there. But, please, perhaps I am wrong and you can enlighten everyone on this.

Quote:

1) PS3 + 360 + PC > Wii That's how many multi-platform publishers look at this.

Not "IMO"? You quickly pointed that out to Lou a couple of posts ago, so perhaps you might want to throw that in a bit more yourself then to be fair right? In a recent Game Informer I read an article where EA spoke about how they are doing less for PS3 and looking more at Wii because they have to follow where the users are, especially if its the easier platform to code for. The fact that any big publishers are being so frank about why they are putting PS3 last is pretty horendous given how important Sony was to their past success in many cases on the PS2. Thats pretty telling in my view that some pretty important elements of the industry are disappointed with the install base, the resources for publishers, etc. Bethesda not making DLC for Fallout3, for the internet enabled PS3, thats horrible. Its embarrassing, but beyond that its going to hurt sales even more.

Quote:

It won't get Halo or Killzone 2 on the Wii

The numbers speak for themselves, obviously the Wii does not need those titles to maintain the lead. The bigger question is, why is Killzone 2 not spiking the PS3 console numbers more. A $400 price tag I suspect kind of kills the buzz for many. And lets face it, having the Halo and Gears of War franchises beats having the Killzone franchise anyday, which the 360 has. And other franchises that have been only on Sony have been talking of going 360 quite possibly in their next versions. Again, them talking to the public about it is something Sony should take serious heed of. And so far, they don't seem to be getting the message.

Quote:

As developers fall in the mature age group themselves as well, they often prefer to create games they themselves would like to play.

Again, no "IMO"? I see it as only fair to point that out again since you want others to use it more. Perhaps they "often" like to delight young children with games for such an audience. Perhaps they like "often" to make titles that will keep them in a job and can make a good easy ROI, which is not always a mature age group title. Regardless, what point are you even trying to make with your statement? And the Wii mind you has had a number of more mature audience titles lately. And the 360 has tons of mature titles. A developer hardly needs the PS3 as a platform to make such games.

Quote:

Not really, the PS3 again has the strongest line-up of exclusive games this year. Relatively more so than last year, as the 360's and Wii's line-up of hardcore games this year are weak.

Since when has the Wii needed the strongest line-up of exclusive hardcore games to sell consoles? The answer is "never". Since when do poorer families who could not afford an Xbox360 last year pass up getting one this year to play Gears 2 or whatever now at a now generally affordable price point? Do you think they instead will pass on a 360 this year again to save for another year or two to get a PS3? Really hardcore gamers, the ones most interested in hardcore games fall into two categories. 1) Have a PS3 already or 2) are saving up for one because hardcore gamers ultimately want all systems that offer hardcore games. But thats hardly a windfall of potential remaining users in the grand scheme of things. What is a windfall is the people who will bite at $199 for an awesome system like the 360 but will not spend $400 on a PS3, especially in this economy.

Quote:

The PS3 despite higher entry pricing is tracking well better than the 360 and PS1 performed from launch. We know the PS1 sold over 100 million eventually, the future is looking bright for the PS3.

How many hours do you spend crafting numbers, whether as raw numbers or percentages, etc to have them support your arguments, the ones you want to hold? Rather then looking at statistics to try to form valid opinions? Taking PS1 numbers in a given time period from launch in a vacuum may certainly produce the numbers you want to make statements like that. But they are not nearly as meaningful as they might appear unless you can come up wth supporting facts as to why or how the situation for the two consoles is so similar that the PS3 sales would be bound to track the same way or better than the PS1 did. Is the competition as strong as or weak then vs now? Is the economy at large as strong as or weak then vs now? What was the profit or loss margin per unit in comparison to each other? What was Sony's own economic situation itself then vs. now? Was the supporting game industry in a similar enough situation then as now?

I've asked you before and I will again. The readership here on average is quite technically intelligent and therefore in general detail oriented. You aren't likely to fool many people here. As I have pointed out, I'm a Sony shareholder. I certainly want to see them do well as I hold ownership in the company. I'd rather you be right. But you don't support your arguments, IMHO.

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_________________
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@BrianK

Quote:

Is this because the 6 year old's dollars are proving more profitable than the 36 year old's dollars?

No it regards game preferences, for example the NES sold really well, but the Amiga 500 in general had far better quality games for it. Like with the Wii, multi-platfrom games sucked on the NES compared to the Amiga versions.

Quote:

So do you believe your sexist view that girls don't want to play at killing?

I wouldn't allow my (fictious) 6 year old daughter to play such games.

Quote:

You said this last year too and well the PS3 didn't make the cut.

We already agreed the PS3 did not receive a cut on entry pricing last year. It might this year.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Before I begin with a response I'm going to remind you that you did not respond to what I said in regard to your statement that the xbox 360 is:

For example one little move of the console and you got a deep carved circle on your game disc.

IMO for kids, ideally you have a rock solid device like the Snes, which can handle a few drops.

Quote:

Again, no "IMO"?

There are plenty of developer comments with regard to this.

@MikeB

Mike, between my Wii and PC, all my gaming desires are satified, no need to hit the middle-ground (360/PS3). There are experiences you cannot have on the 360/PS3/PC that the Wii gives you. Similarly, when I want to be wow'd by technology: PC > 360/PS3. Most people have PC's. Most people will buy a Wii over a PS3 or 360...only the hardcore gamer or who buy low-end PC's will want a 360 and/or PS3.

IMO!

@Lou

I'm in your very situation, as are my Wii owning friends: High Spec PC to play Witcher, UT, Crysis + Wii to play Mario Galaxy, Lego Batman, RE4, Mad World...

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: For example one little move of the console and you got a deep carved circle on your game disc.

As an experiment I subjected my Xbox 360 today to one little move of the console while it was running a disc this morning. I had no deep carved circle on the disc as a result. I had no lightly carved circle. Actually I did not even get the hint or shadow of a circle either.

So I'd have to rate your statement as rather bold and self serving. Now certainly this is one Xbox. But the construction of your statement certainly implies all 360s. So mine not causing the issue debunks your statement as you currently make it. You have been very consistent in overstating the reach and significance of 360 issues and understating the same in PS3 issues. Nothing new unfortunately there.

Quote:

IMO for kids, ideally you have a rock solid device like the Snes, which can handle a few drops.

But Mike, this is a thread for comparing the current generation of consoles. The SNES is from 1990. And the SNES was cartridge based, it was not disc based where the mechanism needs to spin the media at very high RPM. Thats hardly a fair (or on-topic) comparison. Additionally, for the sake of fully addressing your statement anyway, neither the Wii or the PS3 could claim to be as durable physically as a simple cart gaming box from 1990 either.

And the Xbox360 has plenty of downloadable titles kids might enjoy that can run off hard drive equipped units, not needing to use the DVD drive at all. In that sense if you want the most physically bulletproof setup for a young kid for a current gen console (the topic here) one could argue a 360 loaded with many downloaded titles might easily be able to claim the best durability overall.

Quote:

There are plenty of developer comments with regard to this.

There are also plenty of developer comments putting down the PS3 for a variety of reasons. Why not just wear your PS3 fanboy badge with honor Mike? Why this pretending to be objective stuff? Who you trying to convince? Everyone else, or yourself?


And I'll point out again something wegster and others have pointed out to you a couple of times. You choose to ignore multiple points brought up to you. Usually the stuff that would be tough to counter. No big surprise there at this point (sadly). But when you ignore that stuff it makes it harder for others in this conversation to take things you do say seriously. I hope you realize that.

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_________________
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@MikeB

Quote:

I wouldn't allow my (fictious) 6 year old daughter to play such games.

BrianK was challenging you on your statement that girls would not be interested in such games. If your fictitious daughter would not be interested because of her sex according to you, how would you even have the opportunity to have to make a parental decision to step in to forbid the little girl from such games?

_________________
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EFIKA owner
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@Lou

Quote:

Mike, between my Wii and PC, all my gaming desires are satified, no need to hit the middle-ground (360/PS3).

That's OK with me.

But for me personally PS3 gaming >>>>> PC.

Times have changed, the PC has much more taken the backseat. Most games I was interested in in the past would usually hit the PC first, now they usually hit the consoles first or aren't even released for the PC at all.

Advances in living room technology also helps. For example great 7.1 channel audio (PC speaker sets, even those claiming to be 5.1 are really just 2.1 sets with additional speakers), large screen 1080p HDTVs, fast wireless Wi-Fi internet connection, being able to use many multiple wireless gamepads simultaneously, etc.

The PS3 serves my comfort desires much better than modern gaming PCs from such perspectives as well. I would never put a noisy high spec gaming PC in my living room. I do use my laptop in the living room, but that's no joy and pretty low spec for gaming.

@MikeB

I'm with you at this point.
I mean: PS3 is a well rounded multimedia solution that gives good performances against not so high cost.

I think the day My DVD player will broke and/or I'll get an HDTV maybe a PS3 could enter my house.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@ErikBauer

Its the usual situation... once you have a PS3 you will ask yourself why you took so long to get one... it is a wonderful machine, period!

Q!

"i am home"

@MikeB

Quote:

No it regards game preferences

Games are games. If people enjoy them they buy them no matter the age group.

Quote:

I wouldn't allow my (fictious) 6 year old daughter to play such games.

Again why the sexism? Neither my son nor daughter will play KZ2 or Halo when they are 6.

Quote:

We already agreed the PS3 did not receive a cut on entry pricing last year. It might this year

Are you coming around to the position that the PS3 needs a price cut to gain momentum over the competition?

Quote:

For example one little move of the console and you got a deep carved circle on your game disc.

RtFM. It actually says do not shift the console from horizontal to vertical without turning it off.




@Fairlanefastback
Quote:

The bigger question is, why is Killzone 2 not spiking the PS3 console numbers more

Many ripped on Halo Wars because it was not a FPS and therefore wouldn't sell. Yet it beat KZ2 to 1 million. IMO I think KZ2 will sell more overall. But, it certainly didn't burn up the charts. Whereas Halo Wars is the best selling rts of this generation.

Quote:

What is a windfall is the people who will bite at $199 for an awesome system like the 360 but will not spend $400 on a PS3, especially in this economy.

I agree do you want a PS3 or a 360 + 5 games? Sales figures say the later option is more popular.

Quote:

How many hours do you spend crafting numbers

Do note it's important what was left out. PS3 is selling worse than the PS2 during the same timeframe. Wii is selling better than the Gamecube. 360 is selling better than the Xbox. 2 companies have improved their position from last gen. 1 company has lowered their position from last gen.

@MikeB

Quote:

Advances in living room technology also helps. For example great 7.1 channel audio (PC speaker sets, even those claiming to be 5.1 are really just 2.1 sets with additional speakers), large screen 1080p HDTVs, fast wireless Wi-Fi internet connection, being able to use many multiple wireless gamepads simultaneously, etc.

As an example, cheap C-Media "virtual" 5.1 are just POS.

My desktop PC's 5.1 speaker set (Yamaha 5.1 Hi-Fi receiver unit) has 6 channels and it's connect to ASUS Xonar D2 7.1 sound card.

My old Logitech 5.1 has 6 cables that are connected to ASUS Xonar D2 7.1 sound card or Audigy 2 ZS (currently not being used, I have both external ExpressCard and internal PCI versions). My PC's mainboard has Realtek 888 codec i.e. 7.1. channels (and ports).

Quote:

The PS3 serves my comfort desires much better than modern gaming PCs from such perspectives as well. I would never put a noisy high spec gaming PC in my living room. I do use my laptop in the living room, but that's no joy and pretty low spec for gaming.

My ASUS G1Sn 15.4" laptop is capable to play multi-platform 2008/2009 games at 1280x720p with high details and has 2X BluRay-ROM/DVD+-RW drive (Panasonic UJ-120). Power consumption around 50 watts.

In Oz, we can claim PC related expenses on our income taxes i.e. up to $800 AUD per "item" per financial year.

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Apr-2009 at 10:08 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Apr-2009 at 10:05 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

The PS3 serves my comfort desires much better than modern gaming PCs from such perspectives as well. I would never put a noisy high spec gaming PC in my living room. I do use my laptop in the living room, but that's no joy and pretty low spec for gaming.

Why would you need a high spec PC? For $500-$600 one can build a PC that outperforms the PS3. If you're careful about your selection one could do fanless. So no worry about the 'noise'.

@Hammer

Quote:

In Oz, we can claim PC related expenses on our income taxes i.e. up to $800 AUD per "item" per financial year

That's nice mate!

In Singapore we pay no tax on any interest earned on savings, no tax on capital gains on stocks or properties and one of the lowest income tax rates in the world of circa 4-9% depending on your earnings bracket... now we just need to add the PC related expenses concept to the above list; and we're living in heaven!

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 25-Apr-2009 at 07:33 AM.

@MikeB

My PC is an Athlon64 X2 runnin at 2.01GHz with 2GB of DDR2 800MHz ram and I have a generic NVidia PCie video card with 512MB and I play World of Warcraft:WotLK on a monitor that is 22" widescreen with a resolution of 1920x1050 and I have almost all the graphical settings turned all the way up. The PS3 could not run WoW as it's cpu ram is only 256MB

As WoW is the #1 retail game on the planet: PC gaming > PS3 gaming.

IMO

from CAPCOM:
Quote:

Capcom, traditionally a developer with a focus on consoles, has recently started to bring more of their games like Resident Evil 5 and Street Fighter IV to the PC. "We feel we can create an incredible and perhaps different experience than the PC has had before," he said. "The PC versions of Street Fighter IV and Devil May Cry 4 will be the definitive versions of the game."

Last edited by Lou on 27-Apr-2009 at 05:26 PM.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

And the Xbox360 has plenty of downloadable titles kids might enjoy that can run off hard drive equipped units, not needing to use the DVD drive at all. In that sense if you want the most physically bulletproof setup for a young kid for a current gen console (the topic here) one could argue a 360 loaded with many downloaded titles might easily be able to claim the best durability overall.

For a real life example. My 7 year old niece and 8 year old nephew came for Sat and Sun. They seem to be enjoying the 360 without problems. Though the 7 year old niece is a bit upset that my 2.5 year old son is beating her at Viva Pinata Party Animals. She doesn't want him to play now because he's too young for video games.