@Lou

Quote:

Regardless, it's a PS3 game so MikeB says it's perfect....

Actually no game is perfect and actually I said I expect Uncharted 3 to become more technically impressive than Uncharted 2.

Only an extremist fanboy would claim something like that. Like you in the past claimed the Wii-mote (even without Wii motion plus) was perpect and worse yet you claimed it to be perfect for any kind of game experience. My comments have always been far more balanced than your's.

I think it's funny that you are so negative about Playstation Move considering the above and the fact it can do everything Wii motion plus does, only much more than that.

The more people own a game the easier it will be to find a negative comment somewhere on the internet, it's not that big of a deal like you make it out to be. Regardless the game received by far the most 'Game of Year' awards last year and I have never seen a game receive so many awards from industry experts Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences as Uncharted 2 did, so it's not commonly accepted as fact Uncharted 2 is a bad game like you make it out to be.

Last edited by MikeB on 02-Jun-2010 at 08:06 AM.

@BrianK

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Halo 3, that wasn't meant to be a polygon show house and built on last console engine, even if it did eat the Uncharted 2's sales for breakfast.

Sales does not equal quality. Pre-release hype and marketing sells more games. Both Uncharted games sold multiple millions, so what you say is a fanboy exaggeration.

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Halo 3, that wasn't meant to be a polygon show house and built on last console engine

The same counts for PS3 lauch title Resistance: Fall of Man and that was a much lower profile game with a much smaller development budget and shorter development span, it did not get the gloves on treatment from 360 fans at all just because Gears of War looked better... IMO Resistance amongst all the PS3 and 360 launch games is still the most fun and impressive.

New gaming engines aren't built in a day and neither was Rome, so developers for a launch game will have to make use of what they already have and enhance it to make use of new hardware capabilities. Halo is based on Bungie's XBox and desktop computer targeted Halo gaming engine and Resistance was based on a Ratchet & Clank engine for the PS2.

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @MikeB Quote: MikeB wrote: @Lou Wolrd of Warcraft wasn't designed for the Wii-mote. No poop Dick Tracy! Your point? This is an old video of it on a MAC running an older version of the software: http://www.howtodothings.com/video/world-of-warcraft-with-wii-remote Regardless, you and Erik didn't understand my statement that a Wii+PC fulfills my gaming needs. Not the union of the two but that the games I want to play on either completes my gaming desires that I don't need a 360 or PS3 for anything.

I perfectly understood, Lou. And in fact I wrote something about RE5 not being as immersive as RE4Wii edition due to lack of motion controls on my PC.
Up to now I did not need a PS3 or X360 for anything (even if I'm a bit envious of Gears of War, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain and God of War). But now that PS3 has motion controls, the temptation to be able to play HD FPS with a motion controller is very very high.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: Regardless, it's a PS3 game so MikeB says it's perfect.... Actually no game is perfect and actually I said I expect Uncharted 3 to become more technically impressive than Uncharted 2. Only an extremist fanboy would claim something like that. Like you in the past claimed the Wii-mote (even without Wii motion plus) was perpect and worse yet you claimed it to be perfect for any kind of game experience. My comments have always been far more balanced than your's.

MikeB, you do claim every PS3 game is perfect.


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I think it's funny that you are so negative about Playstation Move considering the above and the fact it can do everything Wii motion plus does, only much more than that.

You miss the point. Other than the camera, it doesn't really do more other than give you an analog trigger...yet to you it's the greatest invention since sliced bread.

Quote:

The more people own a game the easier it will be to find a negative comment somewhere on the internet, it's not that big of a deal like you make it out to be. Regardless the game received by far the most 'Game of Year' awards last year and I have never seen a game receive so many awards from industry experts Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences as Uncharted 2 did, so it's not commonly accepted as fact Uncharted 2 is a bad game like you make it out to be.

I never said it was bad, I said it wasn't the perfect game you make every PS3 game seem to be. It got 10's because most big reviewers are graphics whores who get paid off by publishers. It's the smaller independent reviewers that first noted it's shortcomings.

@ErikBauer

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ErikBauer wrote: @Lou I perfectly understood, Lou. And in fact I wrote something about RE5 not being as immersive as RE4Wii edition due to lack of motion controls on my PC. Up to now I did not need a PS3 or X360 for anything (even if I'm a bit envious of Gears of War, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain and God of War). But now that PS3 has motion controls, the temptation to be able to play HD FPS with a motion controller is very very high.

Well, you could try playing an FPS on the PC with a gyro-mouse & keyboard.

I can't wait until the first cross-platform FPS game that uses MOVE is compared to controls on the Wii... This will be an epic review.

Last edited by Lou on 02-Jun-2010 at 12:32 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 02-Jun-2010 at 12:29 PM.

@Lou

Is it just an idea of mine or are you a "little" against Sony?

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@MikeB

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Sales does not equal quality.

Sure it does. More people saw Halo 3 as providing enough overall quality of entertainment that they were willing to spend money on the game.

You cherry picked Halo3 because it wasn't meant to display the power of the 360. It was a highly popular game and a low polygon count. You tried to use it to show how bad the 360 is. The problem here is the fanboism lead you do try and show a system was bad by choosing a weak game, graphically. Bad form old chap.

Moving the goal post by throwing in a 'launch' comparision doesn't help your argument. If a game isn't written to make optimal use of the system then it isn't doesn't matter if it's launch or not.

The 'gloves by 360 users' is old. Every system has this including the PS3. Why would you expect 360 users to give gloves to a PS3 game? PS3 users don't do this to the 360 either.

@BrianK

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Sure it does

You as an (ex-)Amigan should know. The Amiga provded pre-emptive multi-tasking, could display photographs in up to 4096 colors, had stereo sound, etc. This while MSDOS was one of the worst, limited and handicapped single tasking operating systems known to man.

MSDOS got big due to IBM's public image (and their mistake they didn't make their own OS when they could) and later with the clones many different companies adverstising MSDOS computers, this while Amiga relied on Commodore which was lacking. In hindsight everyone seems to agree MSDOS (at the time many fanboys claimed a GUI is for someone who can't type!) was sucky and the lack of colors, mutli-tasking and audio were shortcomings.

Halo 3 was heavily marketed by Microsoft. The campaign was short and repetitive, it selling well was thus very interesting to Microsoft as people would like to play online to get the feeling they got their money's worth, this would earn them much more than just Halo 3 retail sales (as it ensures a yearly income), it's also useless if you pay to play online and your friends do not, so fanboys try to pursuade their friends on why XBox Live is so great to have to pay for. An excellent strategy from a business perspective.

Sales do not equal quality, but it can help sales. Imagine Hyperion would develop a game for the Amiga X1000 which on the PS3 or XBox 360 would sell millions of copies. Can we expect it to sell millions of copies on the Amiga X1000 as well? The Amiga 4000 was a lot more powerful than the Amga 1200, most would prefer this model if they would have costed the same, etc, etc, etc.

There are so many different factors involved, I find it funny how simple your thought process is.

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You tried to use it to show how bad the 360 is.

I used it to show how advanced the Uncharted series is. I did not single out Halo 3, I mentioned Half-Life 2 and Gears of War as well. Those are some of the most popular 360 games out there... What should I do then, use 360 shovelware in comparisons?

Last edited by MikeB on 02-Jun-2010 at 03:09 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 02-Jun-2010 at 03:08 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 02-Jun-2010 at 03:04 PM.

@ErikBauer

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ErikBauer wrote: @Lou Is it just an idea of mine or are you a "little" against Sony?

I have a Sony 6.1 stereo system.
My cousin whom I live with owns a PS3 that I use to watch movies.
I used to own a PS1.

I am not against Sony, per say. I am not a fan of Sony gameconsoles and their fanboys since my personal experience has always been too much hype with little substance.

My PS1 was crap hardware and I had to use it upside down before I opened it up and shimmed it to work properly. Everybody's PS2 was crap hardware and I know several people who bought 4 and 5 PS2(s) in 6 years. I find it ironic that MikeB dogged MS for shoddy hardware(360) however, nobody had worked harder to fix it than MS in the same console lifecycle. The 360 is fixed. PS3 has generally been relieable, but that's a first for Sony consoles and I wouldn't have gone on about it like he has in the past considering Sony's console history. PS1 & PS2 were also kings of shovelware for their generations because they led and MikeB likes to throw that criticism at the Wii which again I find quite ironic.

I've owned many consoles since about 1977 starting with a Magnovox 3-in-1 pong-like system. I've owned an Odessey 2, an Atari 5200, C64, C128, C128D, CD32, NES, TurboGraphix16, SEGA Genesis + SegaCD, PS1, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Wii, 360. (No need to get a PS3 and there's one downstairs.)

To say I'm a fanboy is amusing to me coming from him. I am simply bringing balance to his hype. I just don't see what the need is for the big advertising campaign that I constantly hear from him. Atleast usually when I talk about the Wii, I already own the damn game. MOVE doesn't even exist in retail yet. How annoying.

The only thing the PS3 can really do that no other system can do it play BluRay movies...and that's why I use it for. Everything else has been done or is already being done by other systems. Cell is not so special. RSX is quite ordinary. Sony is going to ask you to buy yet another controller since Sixaxis wasn't good enough and DualShock3 wasn't good enough so now we have MOVE with it's new controller that is simply:

I have to say it - that glowing sphere is ridiculous!

Nintendo patented the Wii Remote enough for MS to drop the controller entirely and Sony to resort to glowing balls.

Now the jokes that used to be able waggling Wii(s) can be about playing with my balls. EPIC FAIL SONY!

Epic fail.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK I used it to show how advanced the Uncharted series is. I did not single out Halo 3, I mentioned Half-Life 2 and Gears of War as well. Those are some of the most popular 360 games out there... What should I do then, use 360 shovelware in comparisons?

If you wanna do an apples to apples comparison, them compare games of the same genre. Atleast then you can say games of type X are better on the PS3. But then bulletpoint the +'s and -'s.

I'll help you out:

Uncharted 2 for the PS3 is a 3rd person action adventure:
+ it's pretty
- it's maps are linear like Final Fanstasy 13
+ it's real pretty
- poor collision detection
+ it's super pretty
- scripted action sequences seem timed and rather than involving any skill
+ it's got lots of pretty pretty action
- it gets dull once you hit the artic phase
+ damn it's pretty

Final score: 10/10 cuz it's so damn super duper pretty and exclusive to the PS3!

Last edited by Lou on 02-Jun-2010 at 03:51 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

My PS1 was crap hardware and I had to use it upside down before I opened it up and shimmed it to work properly. Everybody's PS2 was crap hardware and I know several people who bought 4 and 5 PS2(s) in 6 years. I find it ironic that MikeB dogged MS for shoddy hardware(360) however, nobody had worked harder to fix it than MS in the same console lifecycle.

I don't care about your PS1, the XBox 360 was or is one of the most failure prone piece of consumer electronics hardware there is. IMO Microsoft shouldn't have rushed the console like they did. I wasn't much interested in consoles since the Nintendo 64 (had one only due to Mario64).

I like my old ColecoVision as a small kid (IMO the Atari 2600 was crap in comparison, nomatter it sold better BrianK). I was mainly a c64/Amiga gamer and since Quake switched to PC.

Of course Microsoft has to fix their problems with the 360, they had tons of lawsuits filed against them before they admitted any problems. When there was no other option they finally admitted to their shareholders the way beyond industry standards accepted failure rate.

The extended warranty for RROD related problems isn't there because they want to be nice to you. It's there to save their asses. The non extended warranty covered failures according to research is still higher than all PS3 failures combined, so not really to be joyfull about. IMO the free month of online gaming does not compensate for being without a console for a week or more, IMO this should be free anyhow like it is on the PC, PS3 and other products.

Is this all really so difficult to understand?

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: My PS1 was crap hardware and I had to use it upside down before I opened it up and shimmed it to work properly. Everybody's PS2 was crap hardware and I know several people who bought 4 and 5 PS2(s) in 6 years. I find it ironic that MikeB dogged MS for shoddy hardware(360) however, nobody had worked harder to fix it than MS in the same console lifecycle. I don't care about your PS1, the XBox 360 was or is one of the most failure prone piece of consumer electronics hardware there is. IMO Microsoft shouldn't have rushed the console like they did. I wasn't much interested in consoles since the Nintendo 64 (had one only due to Mario64). I like my old ColecoVision as a small kid (IMO the Atari 2600 was crap in comparison, nomatter it sold better BrianK). I was mainly a c64/Amiga gamer and since Quake switched to PC. Of course Microsoft has to fix their problems with the 360, they had tons of lawsuits filed against them before they admitted any problems. When there was no other option they finally admitted to their shareholders the way beyond industry standards accepted failure rate. The extended warranty for RROD related problems isn't there because they want to be nice to you. It's there to save their asses. The non extended warranty covered failures according to research is still higher than all PS3 failures combined, so not really to be joyfull about. IMO the free month of online gaming does not compensate for being without a console for a week or more, IMO this should be free anyhow like it is on the PC, PS3 and other products. Is this all really so difficult to understand?

Is it so difficult to understand that their were lawsuits over the PS1 & PS2?

Pot? Kettle? Black!

I guess if I can turn my PS1 upside down to have it work then it technically hasn't failed, right? By that same notion, I could always operate a launch 360 in a walk-in freezer and it would never fail either.

Last edited by Lou on 02-Jun-2010 at 04:08 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 02-Jun-2010 at 04:06 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

- poor collision detection - it gets dull once you hit the artic phase

You clearly haven't played the game. I however have earned my headshot trophy, the collision detection is excellent.

After the artic snow parts about 7 more chapters out of 26 remaining. Everyone will have his or her favourite chapters (like the very memorable train ride or the tibetan village). But Uncharted 2 has great chapters throughout with much varierty.

Warning spoilers, some cool levels after the artic mountaining chapter:

I loved the hectic cat & mouse chapter (chapter 20):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stgxw7QYHRQ

Shambala near the end is also one of my favourites (chapter 25), very pretty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh4oe-Ruusw

This is one game IMO you shouldn't troll Lou, it's quality throughout.

@MikeB

So off in your comparison. A company coming out of last place Xbox and making a product that's more desireable Xbox 360 is not the same as the MSDOS wars. Other than names of players there's no relationship here. If anything there's Sony coming off the clear #1 in the PS2 and failing to capitalize it in their next product as they struggle for #2. For this you should be blaming Nintendo for making a quality product at a market approachable price. Hey but keep blaming Microsoft for Sony's failings.


Quote:

Sales do not equal quality

Yes we know your opinion. What you fail to consider is the market runs not by MikeB's definition of quality but by their own definition of quality. Overall quality of a product indeed plays a major role, even outside a stellar marketing campaign. Had Halo 3 come out and it was bad you wouldn't have people clamoring for more. That's why you see people calling for more Halo and not more Halo:ODST. It's funny how simple you view 'quality'.

Last edited by BrianK on 02-Jun-2010 at 04:51 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Is it so difficult to understand that their were lawsuits over the PS1 & PS2?

Don't forget there were the beginnings of lawsuits on the PS3 as they removed Linux. Sony didn't put Linux back in to be friendly they did it to save their own asses from the EU.

And as a PS3 owner who was told to shove off by Sony because my loud fan only during Blu-Ray playback isn't a problem they would fix without charge. Likewise Sony doesn't do things to help their users either. It's a market problem not only a Microsoft problem.

@BrianK

My honest opinion is that if Halo 3 wasn't Halo but with different characters and wouldn't have had the massive marketing campaign by Microsoft, it would have gotten average reviews and wouldn't have sold this much.

Whenever I see Halo 3 I think, why the hell was it this much overhyped by especially the US media.

@BrianK

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If anything there's Sony coming off the clear #1 in the PS2 and failing to capitalize it in their next product as they struggle for #2.

Sales isn't everything. For example the NeoGeo didn't have huge sales, but it did have superior quality games for its time.

Also the PS3 is well on track in terms of worldwide sales. 10 million unit sales per year is quite honourable, since the PS3 slim it's doing 15 million units sales per year. Why would for example a high spec high quality HDTV need to sell more than a cheap less advanced HDTV to be considered to be selling well?

I simply don't understand your logic. It was clear from the beginning Sony could not afford to sell the PS3 at Wii levels at the time, it did outsell the cheaper XBox 360 while Microsoft has been killing their PC games division in the process to try to counter this.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: - poor collision detection - it gets dull once you hit the artic phase You clearly haven't played the game. I however have earned my headshot trophy, the collision detection is excellent. After the artic snow parts about 7 more chapters out of 26 remaining. Everyone will have his or her favourite chapters (like the very memorable train ride or the tibetan village). But Uncharted 2 has great chapters throughout with much varierty. Warning spoilers, some cool levels after the artic mountaining chapter: I loved the hectic cat & mouse chapter (chapter 20): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stgxw7QYHRQ Shambala near the end is also one of my favourites (chapter 25), very pretty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh4oe-Ruusw This is one game IMO you shouldn't troll Lou, it's quality throughout.

If I am recounting what many reviewers have said, how am I trolling?
I consider your PS3-elitism trolling because you are asking to be criticized by the constant picture of perfection that you paint the platform.

People also complained about camera angles during running sequences made intentionally bad just to build suspense but impossible to see where you are going.

You defend it to the death showing only isolated instances of excellence and call all critiques trolling. Not exactly fair and balanced.

It's a pretty good game but it does have flaws. Can you accept that like I can accept that the Wii is limited to SD?

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK My honest opinion is that if Halo 3 wasn't Halo but with different characters and wouldn't have had the massive marketing campaign by Microsoft, it would have gotten average reviews and wouldn't have sold this much. Whenever I see Halo 3 I think, why the hell was it this much overhyped by especially the US media.

I actually think with Halo, people simply liked Master Chief as a character. There is something very 'American' about him. HALO (the original) as an FPS was average, though the vehicle stuff added some diversity.

What makes Nathan Drake stand out as a character?
Mario stands out as well.

People can somehow relate to certain characters in games and they sell well.

I can't explain it myself, but there is no denying it.

@Lou

Quote:

If I am recounting what many reviewers have said, how am I trolling?

Many? Of course there have been many reviews, how many of those actually claimed poor collision detection? I am as good at headshots in Uncharted 1 as I am in Uncharted 2.

Quote:

constant picture of perfection that you paint the platform

That's not true, in the beginning I criticized the PS3 for the lack of DVR functionality, but meanwhile Sony is correcting that. For example I criticized Killzone 2 for it loading time hiccups, but luckily Guerilla agreed and is going to take care of this in Killzone 3.

Before the launch of the PS3 I warned people there would be porting issues regarding legacy game engines and that it would take a while before developers would take good advantage of the Cell processor. If what you state was true, why would I make such a statement?

Sadly a more balanced perspective on things you don't want to see.

Quote:

Can you accept that like I can accept that the Wii is limited to SD?

Of course, I don't really see it as direct competition for the PS3 similar I don't see the PS2 as a competitor for the same market segment.

If we would consider the PS2 a competitor then since the launch of the XBox 360 the PS2 still sold way more units. The PS3 sold about eqaul since its worldwide launch, but that will change this year, the 360 isn't very likely to outsell the PS2 over this period until the PS2 is discontinued.

We are still a bit in a transition period, with people moving from SDTV to HDTV but it's happening at a fast pace in developed countries.