@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Samwel Quote: A little more research and quality in design/manufacturing should have been done from the start rather than taking a chance like they did. I think it's a lesson learned by a software company who is trying to extend into hardware. We have seen MIcrosoft software products and it always seem they're mucked up a bit until their 3rd iteration. Quote: In the same way you could say Sony went the other way.. Too much quality for a "toy". Making the price being way too high. But then again this quality thing made me buy it rather than having only a toy at home Actually Sony is the other way. They're a hardware company extending into software, gaming. I think it shows by the near beta quality OS launch of the console. Between the 2 issues Sony's is easier to fix. I think it's taken about 9 months for my PS3 OS to be something I consider to the point it should have been to be released. But even now the 360's OS and Live is a more compelling combination for me. Sony should be rolling out their improvements to their online service soon so we'll see what Home brings us.

Well, I wouldn't call Sony's recent hardware history exactly peachy. If you recall the issues with the PS1 and PS2... Also, they expected the PS3's CELL cpu to not require a separate gpu and then had to redesign it to incorporate the RSX. However, I will say that the overall fit and finsih of the PS3 is better than the 360's, though Sony had lots of issues with their second console as well, so I don't think the pot should call the kettle black.
Now look at Nintendo. They make reliable hardware. I'm not saying they are perfect, I'm saying that you don't buy Nintendo hardware and expect it to fail given their track record. Their have been some issues with the Wii's gpu overheating, but I believe that was limited to very few launch units.

@Lou

Quote:

I wouldn't call Sony's recent hardware history exactly peachy.

I'd agree with you that they've had their own problems. Clearly their PS2 problems had little impact over the life of the PS2. Nearly every PS2 redesign had some strange game that couldn't be played on it, too. Sony blamed the game manufactures. IMO it's a joint problem. Afterall Sony Certified the game.

Quote:

I will say that the overall fit and finsih of the PS3 is better than the 360's

I was helping a co-worker look for a used PS3 and the local game stores had 6 out of which 5 had the front bezel broken. So I think there's even a bit of problem there. The 1 he got has the same problem as mine, about 1 hour into a Blu-Ray movie the fan switches on to full turbo plane take off mode, very annoying. For myself I don't like the piano finish it shows dust and every fingerprint / cat paw print.

Nintendo's history has been pretty good. Though everyone remembers blowing on cartridges. But, they did have an 8bit history where chips and consoles didn't have high processing need nor did they need cooling fans and fins. I haven't seen anyone with Wii problems yet, but then again the people a I know with a Wii are few.

The Swedish computer magazine M3 tested how much electricity different common home devices uses.

These three consoles were in the test as well:

The "winner" PS3 with 188 Watt/hour.
The "runner up" XBox 360 with 180 Watt/hour.
(The above was when the machines were switched on, without any games played.)

Wii however, did not "qualify".
No figures, but they say it needs "one tenth of 360 or PS3".




Article here

Last edited by tomazkid on 03-Mar-2008 at 05:00 AM.

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80GB MSG PS3 bundle to have "partial" PS2 backwards compatibility
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9328&Itemid=2

...whatever "partial" means...it was always "partial" or none at all, it's just that there are different levels of partial.

@tomazkid

Power consumption -- I think this is/was in one of these earlier threads. Interesting none-the-less.

PS3 and 360 are lower then a mid-level PC and much lower then a high end PC. Both are a larger draw then the Wii. Also I believe the PS3 and 360 are worse when playing back DVDs compared to a stand-alone DVD player. Not sure how this relates to HD or Blu stand-alones.

PS3 is the loser, as far as most consumption. It's around 170-200 Watts. 360 is a close second for power usage. The Wii is the best around 18 Watts or ~10PS3s running.

The standby modes of these are a bit different. 360 is the worst. In standby with current average US rates it's about 25 cents per month cost to not unplug it. The Wii can be the worst if not 'off' but in Connect/24 on mode, where it listens for updates, it's about 4x more then the 360 or about $1 per month. The PS3 is a close 2nd to the 360.

As the PS3 and 360 are coming out on smaller process 65nm and perhaps even 45nm at some time. We'll see a slight power reduction but nothing close to Wii's usage.

@BrianK

A modern PC is nowhere near 180W in standby. Intel's Dual and Quad core goes
down to a quite low consumption when idle. Same goes for modern graphic cards.

Btw isn't the 188W for the older 60GB PS3? I think the 40GB is in the 120-140W region.
Still huge consumption though!

EDIT: Tomazkid's linked article says a "a speedy Fujitsu Siemens stationary PC" did
use 61W when idle.

Last edited by Samwel on 04-Mar-2008 at 03:07 AM.
Last edited by Samwel on 04-Mar-2008 at 03:06 AM.

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@BrianK

Quote:

As the PS3 and 360 are coming out on smaller process 65nm and perhaps even 45nm at some time. We'll see a slight power reduction but nothing close to Wii's usage.

The Cell is already at 65nm (40GB). RSX is at 80nm. Both have forthcoming reductions
to 45nm and 65nm respectively this fall. Expect PS3 to go down to about 50-70W by then.

The 360 may have similar reductions made and may then aswell go under 100W.

Last edited by Samwel on 04-Mar-2008 at 02:57 AM.

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It's official: Phil Harrison joins ATARI (Inforgrames)
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9392&Itemid=2

Last edited by Lou on 04-Mar-2008 at 02:51 PM.

@Samwel

Quote:

A modern PC is nowhere near 180W in standby. Intel's Dual and Quad core goes down to a quite low consumption when idle. Same goes for modern graphic cards.

It seems there is some confusion here? PS3 and 360 in standby are in the 2-5 Watt area.

Quote:

The Cell is already at 65nm (40GB). RSX is at 80nm. Both have forthcoming reductions to 45nm and 65nm respectively this fall. Expect PS3 to go down to about 50-70W by then.

Another pro-power reduction is if Sony uses the smaller Blu-Ray laser. The new laser should help either lower our pricing or make the console more profitable for them.

@BrianK

Sorry, I used the wrong word.. I should have written idle rather than standby.
As mentioned in my edit a normal higher end PC uses about 60-70W in idle state.

Sony have previously said the single most important thing to help lower power
consumption/heat is to have the the Cell chip reduced in size.
But RSX and the laser for sure is also in the top 3 when taking about price/manufacturing cost reductions.

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@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @BrianK Sorry, I used the wrong word.. I should have written idle rather than standby. As mentioned in my edit a normal higher end PC uses about 60-70W in idle state. Sony have previously said the single most important thing to help lower power consumption/heat is to have the the Cell chip reduced in size. But RSX and the laser for sure is also in the top 3 when taking about price/manufacturing cost reductions.

Whatever happened to the good old days when you turned something off and it was OFF? :)

A group at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth hopes to use a cluster of 16 PS3s to run the simulation of 2 black holes crashing into each other. They are specifically looking at the properties of the gravity waves emitted by the collision. The cluster -- nicknamed the PS3 Gravity Grid -- was built with a partial donation from Sony, who must like watching really big stuff collide as much as we ...

See the PS3 really sucks big!

Seriously very cool use of the technology.

Last edited by BrianK on 05-Mar-2008 at 04:25 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: A group at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth hopes to use a cluster of 16 PS3s to run the simulation of 2 black holes crashing into each other. They are specifically looking at the properties of the gravity waves emitted by the collision. The cluster -- nicknamed the PS3 Gravity Grid -- was built with a partial donation from Sony, who must like watching really big stuff collide as much as we ... See the PS3 really sucks big! Seriously very cool use of the technology.

Hmmm, a 15 minute drive from my house. I actually took 2 calculus classes there as well as C and C++ courses...

First real annoyance with the PS3.

Playing Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction

The controls from the PS2 R&C was better-
- aiming via right stick, not forced into 'strafe mode' to do so
- right stick camera movement/look works inconsistently, not all of the time. Annoying.
- It's a good game, but I think R&C Deadlocked for PS2 was better.

To compound the relatively minor issues above, whenever I visit a weapons vendor, then try to exit back to the game, the game locks up. I can 'recover' by ejecting the game CD, which dumps you out back into the game, but it happens EVERY TIME.

Apparently I'm not the only one bit by this. Insomnia blames Sony QC/QA, and says it's a bug in the PS3 GameOS. For something that's one of their 'flagship games,' sorry...it's been out for what, 6 months, and no fix yet? WTF?

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@wegster

Quote:

Playing Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction

This game appears to be glitchy Check YouTube there's a guy with some videos on the glitches. I think one was in certain areas you can Shredder-Claw the air. There's collison problems where sometimes your character half disappears into an object. Ability to leave the maps. Some others..

Amazing how this thread is progressing missing nearly all key and crucial market developments.

And I completed Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction two times, the game was absolutely rock solid and I never experienced any major issues. I also love the strafed shooting and Sixaxis controlls during flight. But read the thousands of other impressions here at a leading multi-platform forum:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198255

Ted Price of Insonmiac revealed the game is selling on par with earlier Ratchet games on the PS2 despite the smaller install base. Already selling over 1 million copies WW at this point of its lifecycle. A new Uncharted & Ratchet bundle has recently been introduced in Europe, IMO an excellent package for people wanting to dive into the PS3 experience!

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Mar-2008 at 02:24 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: Amazing how this thread is progressing missing nearly all key and crucial market developments.

Like?

I got sick of posting how Nintendo continues to crush the competition, especially in Japan (4:1 over PS3 last month)...

@MikeB

Quote:

Amazing how this thread is progressing missing nearly all key and crucial market developments.

Jan proved the PS3 to outsell the 360 in the USA for the first time.

Feb returned the PS3 to selling worse then the 360 in the USA.
Feb Wii sales in the USA were about 150% improved over last year.

Xbox360 still sucks in Japan but is beating the Xbox.
Xbox360 is selling about 25% better in the USA then the Xbox did.
(So much for those that thought only Xbox owners were buying)
Xbox360 is selling about 30% better worldwide compared to the Xbox.
Microsoft's Entertainment division made money for two straight quarters and is on target to be in the black for the fiscal year ending in June.
All improvements over last generation.

Wii -- we'll just say a clear advantage over all current consoles and a marked improvement over last generation. Imagine if they had stock.

PS3 sells about 80% the rate of the PS2.
A slip from last generation.

Blu-Ray won in Jan/Feb which likely helped the PS3 sales. Eveyone's expecting a Blu-Ray for the 360 before Christmas.

Xbox failure rates are about 16%. Of course the newer revisions are shorter lived and less impacting. Everyone expects that # to decrease within a year.

Crysis 1.5 looks to come to the PS3 and likely some form of Crysis to the 360.

@MikeB

Quote:

Any I completed Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction two time, the game was absolutely rock solid and never experienced an major issues. I also love the strafed shooting and Sixaxis controlls during flight. But read the thousands of other impressions here at a leading multi-platform forum:

Why? It doesn't invalidate my opinion, nor the problems some are having. Deadlocked was a better game. TOD isn't a bad game, although I think Deadlocked is better (PS2).

Before trying to sugar coat everything PS3, you might want to read here on the problem, versus 'some random reviews' that address nothing I said:
http://rcforum.us.playstation.com/rac/board/message?board.id=toolsofdestruction&message.id=3416&query.id=628#M3416

And, msg24 from above link:

Quote:

Got this response from Insomniac: Hi there, This is a rare bug that wasn't caught by Sony Quality Assurance. It actually is the operating system of the PS3 causing the problem - hence the codes you are seeing displayed on the screen. Make sure your firmware is up to date and that you have the information board turned off (we've heard of issues with it but have never been able to reproduce). You should delete your system data and reinstall. Also, re-saving your game on your own generally can be helpful as well. We're sorry about this inconvenience. It seems limited to certain users and their PS3s, and is definitely not that prevalent. Most users never experience it, and moving the save game to another system does not allow us to replicate the issues. Thanks, Insomniac Games

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@BrianK

Quote:

Feb returned the PS3 to selling worse then the 360 in the USA.

Got a link?

I'll write an update once the February NPD figures are posted next week.