@BrianK

There was a price cut of about 50¤ made on the 360 in Sweden on 14 March.
The arcade is now quite a bit cheaper than even the Wii. Let's see what happens
to the sales figures in late March - early April if anything has changed for the better.

1790SEK for 360 and 2390SEK for Wii in Sweden now. This includes 25% VAT.
PS3 is just under 3900SEK as an example. More than twice the price.

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@BrianK

It shows people want game consoles but don't want/need to pay much for them.
Generally people don't want Full HD yet.

But TV prices are going down almost by the month and eventually PS3 will have gone
down to a acceptable level (probably sub $250). Then it will outsell Wii by a large
number. Also some of the BIG games need to hit PS3 of course. Aswell as some
new hits.

Why americans complain is beyond me though. Because they pay about 30% less
for a PS3 than we do in Sweden. If PS3 was 30% cheaper I think it would be a
bargain.

Speaking about bargains.. In Sweden you can get a PS2 for sub 800SEK lately.
That is TRULY a BARGAIN.
Also 360 arcade at 1800SEK could also be called a bargain I think.

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@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @BrianK It shows people want game consoles but don't want/need to pay much for them. Generally people don't want Full HD yet. But TV prices are going down almost by the month and eventually PS3 will have gone down to a acceptable level (probably sub $250). Then it will outsell Wii by a large number. Also some of the BIG games need to hit PS3 of course. Aswell as some new hits. Why americans complain is beyond me though. Because they pay about 30% less for a PS3 than we do in Sweden. If PS3 was 30% cheaper I think it would be a bargain. Speaking about bargains.. In Sweden you can get a PS2 for sub 800SEK lately. That is TRULY a BARGAIN. Also 360 arcade at 1800SEK could also be called a bargain I think.

Sounds great except when you consider that the only reason the Wii still has not received a pricecut is because it continues to outsell everything.
The Wii is also already cheaper to manufacture, but Nintendo didn't start selling it at a loss, so getting the production costs down was never the issue.
Recall that the Wii's cpu and gpu were made on 90nm chips like the PS3's Cell at launch. Why hasn't Nintedo moved to 65/45nm, perhaps they have already but the subject of Wii production costs isn't a point of contention for fanboys and media.

So I would venture to say that until evidence exists that a low cost PS3 and 360 are cutting into Wii sales, Nintendo has had no reason to lower it's price of entry. Infact, it would have the negative affect of inducing more demand, despite not being able to increase production significantly and potential having customers settling on a 360 or PS3.

Personally, I doubt the majority of people today are buying Wii(s) because of price. I think the word of mouth and people going to other people's houses and having a good time with it are what is driving it's sales. I have directly or indirectly caused sales of 15 Wii's after guests have gotten to try it out...and some who were never into video games before...

Look at the IPOD, it's not the most feature-rich mp3 player, nor is it the cheapest, yet it does have the most sales... Why?

By the way,
A cousin of mine had to stand in line outside of a Toys'R'Us a couple of hours prior to their opening just a couple of weeks ago to get a Wii. He was #26 of 36 available units... That is still the state of affairs with Wii sales in the US...just look at ebay where they continue to sell for $100 over retail... You would think those people would be better served buying the 360 Arcade Pack or something... Again, price is not the issue with Wii sales... People just want one.

Last edited by Lou on 17-Mar-2008 at 11:55 AM.
Last edited by Lou on 17-Mar-2008 at 11:53 AM.
Last edited by Lou on 17-Mar-2008 at 11:50 AM.

The sharply falling US dollar makes it easier for Microsoft to drop prices in Europe and harder for Sony to drop PS3 pricing for the US.

The US economy appears to be nose diving, the Eurozone economy (only 15 EU countries out of 27 EU member countries) is now larger than the US economy...

A slimline $299 PS3 would seem to be some kind of sweetspot for many:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/27/poll-whats-it-going-to-take-to-make-you-buy-a-ps3/

25.9% stated to already own one. About 8% stated they will buy one soon, 8.7% are waiting for a specific announced game, but most interesting about 35.5% stated they are waiting for a $299 / Slimline version.

On a more positive note, two sequels to much touted 360 console exclusives appear to be heading to the PS3. Mass Effect 2 has been confirmed and Bioshock 2 is a good possibility.

The Unreal Engine has been adapted with help from Sony, so good PS3 versions should be expected. The PS3 is gaining market share on the 360 fast, happy to see this.

@Samwel
Quote:

It shows people want game consoles but don't want/need to pay much for them. Generally people don't want Full HD yet.

I'd agree that price is a concern for everyone. Heck even Sony knows this there's a reason they've continued to cut features and cut price during the first year of launch. If they hadn't they'd clearly not be in the position where they are now.

Quote:

TV prices are going down almost by the month

USA 2009 the requirement is to switch to all digital broadcasts. The change over is projected to boost the HDTV market. Once users have HDTV sets they'll want more HD content including games.

Quote:

BIG games need to hit PS3 of course

This year looks to be strong for the PS3 on the game front. That's good as the first year had a number of people buying the PS3 for Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray players will drop below the PS3 price soon. As such PS3 better have it's game front ready.

Quote:

Because they pay about 30% less for a PS3 than we do in Sweden

We need the extra $$ to pay for our college, healthcare, transportation, and old age. You don't.

Quote:

In Sweden you can get a PS2 for sub 800SEK lately

And likely one of the reasons we see the PS2 with significant sales.

@MikeB

Quote:

On a more positive note, two sequels to much touted 360 console exclusives appear to be heading to the PS3. Mass Effect 2 has been confirmed and Bioshock 2 is a good possibility.

I think the reason for this is we're seeing the Wii owning the marketspace and the PS3/360 splitting the bottom half. The games on PS3/360 take more resources and time then a Wii game. As such the profits are likely to be lower and markets smaller. I think we'll see more cross titles this generation between the PS3/360.

You sure on Mass Effect 2? "I believe we'll be Xbox 360 exclusive for at least a short period of time," stated BioWare senior manager Matt Atwood "I think you'll see a PC version not too far away." This was from March 14th. I don't see any statement confirming the PS3. I do see lots of PS3 fangirls thinking not saying no to PS3 means the same thing as yes PS3.

@Samwel

Quote:

There was a price cut of about 50¤ made on the 360 in Sweden on 14 March.

UK Sales increase 35% over the weekend of the price cut. It seems the console still has interest out there.

Japanese Famitsu ranks 9 out of 25 top games for 2007 from the 360.

@BrianK

All I ever wanted from the PS3 was a souped up PS2! i.e. Dualshock 3, Wi-fi broadband built in (for Warhawk) and obviously backwards compatibility. It seems that I'll be able to get a rumble pad (although very delayed in the UK) and maybe a price point of sub £300, but seriously I'd much prefer backwards compatibility to all this Blu-Ray rubbish

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@Lou

Quote:

Sounds great except when you consider that the only reason the Wii still has not received a pricecut is because it continues to outsell everything. The Wii is also already cheaper to manufacture, but Nintendo didn't start selling it at a loss, so getting the production costs down was never the issue. Recall that the Wii's cpu and gpu were made on 90nm chips like the PS3's Cell at launch. Why hasn't Nintedo moved to 65/45nm, perhaps they have already but the subject of Wii production costs isn't a point of contention for fanboys and media.

Why does it outsell everything? The price of course!!! So what will happen now that
it isn't the cheapest console?

You know exactly why Nintendo hasn't moved down in die size... Or are you playing
dumb? If not.. It's because they use off the shelf stuff. This kept down development
and manufacturing cost ALOT.

Of course Nintendo doesn't have to disscuss the price because it's cheapest in
this gen. It's ALWAYS the problem for the most expensive system.
In this case PS3 with it's WAY higher price.


Quote:

Personally, I doubt the majority of people today are buying Wii(s) because of price. I think the word of mouth and people going to other people's houses and having a good time with it are what is driving it's sales. I have directly or indirectly caused sales of 15 Wii's after guests have gotten to try it out...and some who were never into video games before...

Of course it's not the only reason. They reached the "non games playing" audience
with it's price, game types (casual games) and by word of mouth as you said.

But I still believe most hardcore gamers either have dual systems or not a Wii.
A high percent of the hardcore gamers haven't upgraded yet so 2008-2010 is still
very interesting time for all three systems.

I also believe the ONLY reason PS3 isn't the best selling system is because of price.
It has nothing to do with games, features or anything like that. Another price cut
will make a huge difference I think.


Quote:

People just want one.

Yes people people seems to want Wii. But I can't understand why really.
It has bellow 10 games it seems. It's the same 6-10 games that has been on the
charts for a while now it seems. With 1-2 new arriving every 3-4 months.
Each of these about 10 games are huge sellers. Every other game (third party)
seems to be a fiasco sales wise?

Last edited by Samwel on 19-Mar-2008 at 12:26 AM.

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@BrianK

Quote:

UK Sales increase 35% over the weekend of the price cut. It seems the console still has interest out there.

There's always a surge in sales after a price cut. It will be interesting to see if
the surge keeps.

I must say the new price makes the 360 really good value for money. I even recommended it for a friend yesterday (he's not interested in HD movies).

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@Samwel
Quote:

There's always a surge in sales after a price cut.

People are a strange bunch. There is a surge after a price cut. But, girls come on here it's a price cut. It'll hold for the next few months. Instead our impulsiveness gets the best of us.

@Samwel
Quote:

Why does it outsell everything? The price of course!!! So what will happen now that it isn't the cheapest console?

If the 360 or PS3 cheaper I think we'd still see the Wii doing fairly well. People tend to want what others have. They want to go to their friend's house and bring their Wii games so their friend buys a Wii. Price is certainly an important price factor in any product. But, the marketing spin and perceived value is also part.

Quote:

You know exactly why Nintendo hasn't moved down in die size... Or are you playing dumb? If not.. It's because they use off the shelf stuff. This kept down development and manufacturing cost ALOT

The Wii isn't exactly off the shelf. The CPU is modified for it's purpose. It's not an Intel/AMD 'off the shelf' for example. But neither is the CPU as specialized as the Cell. Hollywood combines many functions on a chip it's not an off the shelf GPU, it too is specialized. But, again not as specialized as the 360. Nintendo tends to approach things from build it right way and price it the right way out of the gate. Generally their approach has worked well for them. There's a few duds of course but they've been a major player for a while, and of course shown they can be this time too even without the massive processing power of their competition.

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @Lou Quote: Sounds great except when you consider that the only reason the Wii still has not received a pricecut is because it continues to outsell everything. The Wii is also already cheaper to manufacture, but Nintendo didn't start selling it at a loss, so getting the production costs down was never the issue. Recall that the Wii's cpu and gpu were made on 90nm chips like the PS3's Cell at launch. Why hasn't Nintedo moved to 65/45nm, perhaps they have already but the subject of Wii production costs isn't a point of contention for fanboys and media. Why does it outsell everything? The price of course!!! So what will happen now that it isn't the cheapest console?

Actually, in some countries, the 360 Core is cheaper, I believe. Also the 360 Arcade Pack is close in value to the Wii, yet the 360 has a superior technical advantage and higher perceived value. Finally, $250USD is not cheap. A $99 PS2 is cheap...and that's why it still sells...yet doesn't outsell the Wii but does outsell the 360 and PS3 in most territories.
Quote:

You know exactly why Nintendo hasn't moved down in die size... Or are you playing dumb? If not.. It's because they use off the shelf stuff. This kept down development and manufacturing cost ALOT. Of course Nintendo doesn't have to disscuss the price because it's cheapest in this gen. It's ALWAYS the problem for the most expensive system. In this case PS3 with it's WAY higher price.

How do you know they haven't moved to a smaller die? It wouldn't make financial sense NOT to move to a smaller die. Nintendo, afterall, is still a company that wants to maximize profits... As I said in my original post, manufacturing costs are just fanboy barter. All that matters is what I pay, not how much it cost to make. Really the only people who should care about that are the manufacturers and their shareholders...
Also, they do not use "off-the-shelf" stuff. Their PPC cpu is generally superior to the off-the-shelf version. The Gamecube's Gekko featured SIMD instructions and 2 integer units compared to the off-the-shelf G3. It also had programmable cache.
The Hollywood chip called the gpu is also far from off-the-shelf, it's a northbridge, southbridge, MMU, gpu and audio chip and contains an ARM cpu core as well.

Also, Nintendo doesn't have to discuss a price cut because they can't keep stock on the shelves. Once stock is piling up on the shelves, then they can think about a price cut. This has nothing to do with being the cheapest. If the PS3 was still at $600 and selling out, Sony would not be cutting the costs to the consumer. It's called "supply & demand". Basic economics.
Finally, about being the "cheapest"...The Wii is the most expensive console Nintendo has ever launched. Their tradition has been $199.
Quote:

Quote: Personally, I doubt the majority of people today are buying Wii(s) because of price. I think the word of mouth and people going to other people's houses and having a good time with it are what is driving it's sales. I have directly or indirectly caused sales of 15 Wii's after guests have gotten to try it out...and some who were never into video games before... Of course it's not the only reason. They reached the "non games playing" audience with it's price, game types (casual games) and by word of mouth as you said. But I still believe most hardcore gamers either have dual systems or not a Wii. A high percent of the hardcore gamers haven't upgraded yet so 2008-2010 is still very interesting time for all three systems. I also believe the ONLY reason PS3 isn't the best selling system is because of price. It has nothing to do with games, features or anything like that. Another price cut will make a huge difference I think.

The PS3 has lagged behind with casual games. The PS2 had it's large market because of casual games. DDR, Singstar, EyeToy, Guitar Hero... Those are the games that made non-gamers buy a PS2. Phil Harrison himself critcized Sony for not having those type of titles ready for the PS3. Ofcourse, no casual gamer is going to pay $600 + $99 for Guitar Hero. Sony simply didn't target the larger casual gamer market. Price is one of the factors - yes, but not the only one. It lagged in adequate software because Sony's own development tools weren't up to par.

Quote:

Quote: People just want one. Yes people people seems to want Wii. But I can't understand why really. It has bellow 10 games it seems. It's the same 6-10 games that has been on the charts for a while now it seems. With 1-2 new arriving every 3-4 months. Each of these about 10 games are huge sellers. Every other game (third party) seems to be a fiasco sales wise?

Actually, Guitar Hero 3 on the Wii has outsold the 360 version...
Super Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, WiiSports(not a pack-in in Japan), Red Steel, WiiPlay, Resident Evil 4, Cooking Mama, Resident Evil:Umbrella Chronicles, Brain Training, Carnival Games, Legend of Zelda:Twilight Princess... just off the top of my head.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_selling_video_games
Simply look there and you will see that the 360, launching 12 months ahead of the Wii had 27 titles to sell over a million and the Wii has 20. The PS3 has 3.

I'm actually suprised not to see Excite Truck on that list...it's one of the most fun games I've played on the Wii(and the only one I've completed) and is certainly a much more fun game than Motorstorm on the PS3...

Again, if 3rd parties made better software on the Wii, their sales would increase on the Wii...just look at Guitar Hero 3 sales and Resident Evil 4 (compared to PS2 with 6x the installed user base)... With 3rd parties on the Wii: they get out what they put in.

Sony Press Release about Firmware 2.20 for PS3

It's coming in late March..
Supporting Profile 2.0 (with BD-Live), larger than 2GB DivX/Xvid, resume play (DVD and BD), control music play from PSP (including download of playlists to PSP from PS3),
enhanced browser, mosquito noise reduction added..

EDIT: Forgot.. Also subtitles for DivX/Xvid is now supported. What formats are still unknown.

Last edited by Samwel on 21-Mar-2008 at 07:19 PM.

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@BrianK

Quote:

The Wii isn't exactly off the shelf. The CPU is modified for it's purpose. It's not an Intel/AMD 'off the shelf' for example. But neither is the CPU as specialized as the Cell. Hollywood combines many functions on a chip it's not an off the shelf GPU, it too is specialized. But, again not as specialized as the 360. Nintendo tends to approach things from build it right way and price it the right way out of the gate. Generally their approach has worked well for them. There's a few duds of course but they've been a major player for a while, and of course shown they can be this time too even without the massive processing power of their competition.

With AMD 780 (with Radeon HD3200 IGP) chipset, a PC box can be built for 199 USD.
It has the processing power to run HL2 EP2 1024x768 @~25 to 40FPS i.e. slightly below XBOX 360’s 1280x720p @30FPS.

Last edited by Hammer on 21-Mar-2008 at 08:54 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 21-Mar-2008 at 08:48 PM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Quote: @Briank -- The Wii isn't exactly off the shelf @Hammer-With AMD 780 (with Radeon HD3200 IGP) chipset, a PC box can be built for 199 USD

Not sure the point you're trying to make here? My point was the Wii isn't exactly off the shelf. Sure one can roll an off the shelf solution which beats the Wii. However, this doesn't mean the Wii is off the shelf. Can you help clarify your point? Thanks.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @BrianK All I ever wanted from the PS3 was a souped up PS2! i.e. Dualshock 3, Wi-fi broadband built in (for Warhawk) and obviously backwards compatibility. It seems that I'll be able to get a rumble pad (although very delayed in the UK) and maybe a price point of sub £300, but seriously I'd much prefer backwards compatibility to all this Blu-Ray rubbish

Here ya go, on one part at least:

PS3 Dual Shock for sale now, global shipping

Works fine, just overpriced like many Sony things ($60USD for a single Dual Shock 3)

I don't agree RE: BD. If they'd only gone DVD, you'd likely be griping later once DVD capacity was passed, or multi-DVD games.

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Best 50 games of the 80's by Next-gen.biz:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9472&Itemid=2

@Lou
Quote:

Best 50 games of the 80's by Next-gen.biz: http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9472&Itemid=2

Thanks decent lists. Certainly everyone has their own choices too. It's interesting to see how many of these have made it to the Wii and Xbox Live.

Last edited by BrianK on 25-Mar-2008 at 03:18 PM.