@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @wegster Websites already have their review copies. Quote: However, they also showed KZ way back at E3 claiming it was realtime Who are they? You have to distinguish between PR folk and the tech guys, sadly of course the PR folk get more coverage (so devs are being bothered too much, they should code instead, but sadly often have very limited technical knowledge). It's the tech guys who confirmed all the cutscenes to be realtime. Just take the opening scene, you drop straight and seamlessly into the battle (which is a clear indication of realtime, also a dev paused the craft scene in mid air and could zoom out towards the sky and zoom in all the way towards ground level in an earlier video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kc0j0FncCA (spoiler alert!, hit high quality button, still bad quality footage though).

It doesn't matter who said it, as I recall both the dev as well as Sony both claiming the original movie was of actual gameplay, which it was not.

If someone's a liar, then later tries to do *close* to what they lied about, they still remain a liar. Thus, I'll wait for the game to be out before making any decisions, although the videos I have seen look good enough right now, if the gameplay's there as well.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Hammer

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XBox 360 was rushed and released on 22nd of November 2005. Core 2 Duo (Conroe) was released on 27th of July 2006. PS3 was first released in Japan on November 11, 2006. The G80 was launched on November 8, 2006. G84 was launched on April 17, 2007.

And the launch price was?


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In simple terms, Intel manufactures +100 million OoO X86s per year, while Chartered manufactures high single digit million Xenons. Intel can easily hit 10 million 3Ghz OoO X86s. Intel overcomes this fabrication issue via its industrial strength.

Today yes, but not 3 years ago.
You also cannot overcome a yield issue by just making more, it's far too expensive for consumer market.


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They already built in-order processor array with 128 programmable stream (scalar) processors equipped GMA X3100 @500Mhz (for GM965). There are other reasons why this 128 processor array equipped GPU !@#$ badly against Geforce 9400M IGP or Mobility Radeon HD 3200 IGP.

Actually I was talking about Laraabee, but ATI and Nvidia GPUs are also in-order.

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@Hammer

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XBox 360 was rushed and released on 22nd of November 2005. Core 2 Duo (Conroe) was released on 27th of July 2006.

Wasn't the Dual Core Opteron launched summer of 2005 and the dual core desktop Athlon in fall of 2005?

hammer and minator -- all interesting stuff.

2009 will be the year Wii graphics break out, finally.

Plenty of actuall Wii screen shots here to make many a hardcore gamer rethink their stand on the Wii from one of MikeB's favorite sites:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?s=d8be77689dc8766f7996a22cf6316839&t=341519

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: 2009 will be the year Wii graphics break out, finally. Plenty of actuall Wii screen shots here to make many a hardcore gamer rethink their stand on the Wii from one of MikeB's favorite sites: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?s=d8be77689dc8766f7996a22cf6316839&t=341519

And the PS3 equivalent thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343133

The cartoon-y Wii games look good, and I'm sure many of the Wii games i nthe list will be fun, but except possibly for Dirt2 and one or two others, the more 'realistic' looking games on the Wii (from that list) just don't do much for me, graphically.

Last edited by wegster on 06-Jan-2009 at 04:33 AM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@minator

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And the launch price was?

Intel releases a range of Core 2 processors with base price of $221 USD for E6300 1.86Ghz with 2MB of shared L2 cache. The E6300 can easily be over clocked to 2.69GHz. Highest launch speed was 2.9Ghz (with 14 pipeline stages).

http://www.techspot.com/review/40-core2-e4300-vs-e6300-overclocking/
E6300 overclocked to 3.20GHz. 3.5Ghz with upgraded air-cooler.

Remember, Xenon’s L2 cache is clocked at half the speed (i.e. 1.6Ghz), it’s only a dual instruction issue per cycle PPE core and has 21-stage pipeline.

While, Core 2's L2 cache is clocked at full speed, it issues four instructions per cycle and has 14 pipeline stages. The same arguments in Pentium 4 vs PowerPC 7447 in regards to shorter pipeline advantages bites back.

As a command processor for games, shorter pipelined Athlons, Core 1 and Core 2 kills Pentium IV’s longer pipelined design i.e. 21-stage for Northwood, 31-stages for Prescott.

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Today yes, but not 3 years ago.

Unit sales usually operate in annual or yearly basis.

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You also cannot overcome a yield issue by just making more, it's far too expensive for consumer market.

The X86's consumer market is about making more i.e. economic scale.

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Actually I was talking about Laraabee, but ATI and Nvidia GPUs are also in-order.

Intel's GMA X3100 and 4500HD are the current offerings.

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but ATI and Nvidia GPUs are also in-order.

I’m aware of that, but remember ATI and NV GPUs are coupled with JIT recompliers that optimises existing byte code for specific GPU micro-architecture.

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@BrianK

At that time, AMD/IBM's fab tech has issues with clockspeed.

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@wegster

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wegster wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: 2009 will be the year Wii graphics break out, finally. Plenty of actuall Wii screen shots here to make many a hardcore gamer rethink their stand on the Wii from one of MikeB's favorite sites: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?s=d8be77689dc8766f7996a22cf6316839&t=341519 And the PS3 equivalent thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343133 The cartoon-y Wii games look good, and I'm sure many of the Wii games i nthe list will be fun, but except possibly for Dirt2 and one or two others, the more 'realistic' looking games on the Wii (from that list) just don't do much for me, graphically.

I guess you failed to see the graphical leap over prior Wii games which was one of my points.
Of that PS3 list, I see little diversity: fighters, shooters, rpgs oh and a racer. And it's a short list at that. I supposed an equivalent 360 thread would simply contain 10x more shooters. I guess when the typical shooter can be beaten in 3.5 hours, I supposed you need 10x more of them to really satisfy a gamer. Multi-player is touted as the meat of these packages yet that's existed on the PC for almost ever and was considered a trivial feature back then.

Play CoD5 or the latest 007 game on the Wii and I think after a while you'll prefer the Wii controls over the 640p(or whatever the actual native is) upscaled graphics.

Games for the Wii are starting to look much closer to 360/PS3 games when run on 480p screens, however, the Wii's hid trumps the more powerful machines. You are finally seeing publishers and developers putting money into native Wii development rather than PS2 ports with Wii controls.

Watch the trailer for Monster Hunter 3 and you'd never know it was being played on a Wii by looking at the graphics.

Look at Edge's pick for the 10 most promising Wii games of 2009:
http://www.edge-online.com/features/the-year-ahead-wii-games?page=0%2C0

Tell me how many of them are kiddy or lack good graphics?

True hard core gamers are multi-system owners. 2009 will be the year the Wii takes a bigger chunk of their total playing time.

Just as plain old DVDs look great on my 50" TV, I don't see the thrill or need of going BluRay. I have the same feeling about games. As long as the graphical style is done well, what does more resolution buy me that I'm not already getting? Paying a premium of games and movies is not worth the minor visual fidelity improvement that "motion" pictures will pass along to my eye. Yes, still frames will look much better but in motion the difference is not so clear.

Perhaps when I upgrade to an 80" in a couple of years, then I will deem it necessary, but by then we will have move on to the "next" gen in gaming... I'm quite curious to see what Nintendo will think of next...

@Lou

Nice upgraded graphics for the Wii. It seems developers are starting to hit their stride on this console. My prediction is the Wii will comfortably retain the #1 position. Afterall in the US there are still about 70% (depends on whose stats you believe) SDTVs in the marketplace. And in addition the economy is expected to still be in a recession. Even if the rumored 35% PS3 price cut happens in April I predict the Wii will retain #1 position and #1 sales for 2009.

Having the PS3 and 360 my wife requested a Wii this Christmas. She also requested a music player and because we have 2 consoles she got the later. However, if the Wii2 comes out in ~2 years I think we'll be getting one. Especially if it retains backwards compatibility with the Wii.

@BrianK

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BrianK wrote: @Lou Nice upgraded graphics for the Wii. It seems developers are starting to hit their stride on this console. My prediction is the Wii will comfortably retain the #1 position. Afterall in the US there are still about 70% (depends on whose stats you believe) SDTVs in the marketplace. And in addition the economy is expected to still be in a recession. Even if the rumored 35% PS3 price cut happens in April I predict the Wii will retain #1 position and #1 sales for 2009. Having the PS3 and 360 my wife requested a Wii this Christmas. She also requested a music player and because we have 2 consoles she got the later. However, if the Wii2 comes out in ~2 years I think we'll be getting one. Especially if it retains backwards compatibility with the Wii.

LOL, are you afraid you'd enjoy it or something? :)

Monster Hunter 3 started out as a PS3 game and got canned for the PS3 and moved to the Wii because of the excessive development costs of the PS3 game development. That game is proof that it's all about your visual assets. Previously, the Wii was getting PS2 or PSP visual assets and it showed.
Another note, the Wii's hardware is supposedly not parallax-scrolling friendly, but there is Muramasa: The Demon Blade doing it in style.

Wii: the little console that did.

Look for WiiSports: Resort to be the mega-hit of 2009.

Interesting promotional "video" for Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop for the Wii in Japan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biBQwvdwrqo&eurl=http://thewiire.com/blog/post/5861-new-dead-rising-video-rocks-the-undead&feature=player_embedded

Last edited by Lou on 06-Jan-2009 at 05:49 PM.

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The Tokyo Stock Exchange market capita rankings have been released, and Nintendo is fourth on that list. 1. Toyota Motors: 10.160 trillion yen 2. NTT Docomo: 7.915 trillion yen 3. Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group: 6.5109 trillion yen 4. Nintendo: 4.7813 trillion yen (US$52,732,987,757.80) 5. Tokyo Electric: 4.586 trillion yen 6. Takeda Pharmaceutical Company: 3.7823 trillion yen 7. Canon: 3.6945 trillion yen 8. Honda: 3.4971 trillion yen 9. JT: 2.95 trillion yen 10. KDDI: 2.8478 trillion yen This is the seventh consecutive year Toyota has come in first place, despite a 54 percent loss compared to last year. Sony, on the other hand, fell from 8th place last year to 23rd place in 2008, likely due to the harsh economy.

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=9212

@Lou

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LOL, are you afraid you'd enjoy it or something? :)

We already have an atari, C=64, genesis, jaguard, xbox, PS2, 360 and PS3 she doesn't use and a Gameboy she never touches and DS she sometimes plays. Enough with the unused consoles.

@Lou

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Lou wrote: @wegster Quote: wegster wrote: @Lou [quote] Lou wrote: 2009 will be the year Wii graphics break out, finally. Plenty of actuall Wii screen shots here to make many a hardcore gamer rethink their stand on the Wii from one of MikeB's favorite sites: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?s=d8be77689dc8766f7996a22cf6316839&t=341519 And the PS3 equivalent thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343133 The cartoon-y Wii games look good, and I'm sure many of the Wii games i nthe list will be fun, but except possibly for Dirt2 and one or two others, the more 'realistic' looking games on the Wii (from that list) just don't do much for me, graphically.

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I guess you failed to see the graphical leap over prior Wii games which was one of my points. Of that PS3 list, I see little diversity: fighters, shooters, rpgs oh and a racer. And it's a short list at that. I supposed an equivalent 360 thread would simply contain 10x more shooters. I guess when the typical shooter can be beaten in 3.5 hours, I supposed you need 10x more of them to really satisfy a gamer. Multi-player is touted as the meat of these packages yet that's existed on the PC for almost ever and was considered a trivial feature back then. Play CoD5 or the latest 007 game on the Wii and I think after a while you'll prefer the Wii controls over the 640p(or whatever the actual native is) upscaled graphics.

No, I didn't fail to see the leap, and it wasn't an 'attack on the Wii,' really. I think the cartoony games look 'next gen enough,' and while some others are certainly improved, they (the more 'realistic ones' on the Wii) just don't do it for me, still, graphically. I have no doubt that many are fun to play, and have had many hours of fun just playing Wii Sports (tennis and boxing rock) with a friend.

The controls comment - yes, I certainly wouldn't prefer Six-Axis to Wii for many games. However, not all games are suited to 'motion only' controls, COD may have been poor pick there, unless I can somehow simultaneously move, while aiming via motion control, using the WiiMote (maybe, with the nunchuck attachment?), otherwise I expect the D pat to be used for the Wii there, as well..?

And yes, I'd love to see Sony get a grip, once again, and clone or *attempt* to improve on a similar control. But, after their Dual Shock fiasco and the ever dwindling exclusives, I'm unsure I have high hopes there.

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Games for the Wii are starting to look much closer to 360/PS3 games when run on 480p screens, however, the Wii's hid trumps the more powerful machines. You are finally seeing publishers and developers putting money into native Wii development rather than PS2 ports with Wii controls. Watch the trailer for Monster Hunter 3 and you'd never know it was being played on a Wii by looking at the graphics.

Got a link for Monster Hunter trailer? (will go look).
'Starting to look much closer' is relative. Yes, they look better than prior Wii games. And I'm sure many are fun, and yes, they look *closer* than prior attempts, but that's not quite the same as 'they look close to PS3 or Xbox in HD' either.

I'm assuming by hid, you mean HID, or Human Interface Device? For some games, certainly, but not all. I'd still like one for my PS3, though, so it's not total disagreement here, just not the '100% level' you seem to be implying there with that statement.


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Look at Edge's pick for the 10 most promising Wii games of 2009: http://www.edge-online.com/features/the-year-ahead-wii-games?page=0%2C0 Tell me how many of them are kiddy or lack good graphics?

Again, relative term. I didn't initially see what exactly bugged me about them...I think it's the lack of textures overall. The main graphics (characters, enemies) look good in the shots, but the environments are kinda well, 'flat'/simple. The non cartoony games look like well done PS2 graphics to me.

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True hard core gamers are multi-system owners. 2009 will be the year the Wii takes a bigger chunk of their total playing time.

I buy that. I've thought about getting one, and still am thinking on it. I don't have dislike for the Wii, just calling it as I see it.

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Just as plain old DVDs look great on my 50" TV, I don't see the thrill or need of going BluRay. I have the same feeling about games. As long as the graphical style is done well, what does more resolution buy me that I'm not already getting? Paying a premium of games and movies is not worth the minor visual fidelity improvement that "motion" pictures will pass along to my eye. Yes, still frames will look much better but in motion the difference is not so clear. Perhaps when I upgrade to an 80" in a couple of years, then I will deem it necessary, but by then we will have move on to the "next" gen in gaming... I'm quite curious to see what Nintendo will think of next...

Hmm. Having built a number of HT setups now, with much research...it's *really* about viewing distance versus screen size, and technology used. On a 50", I'd expect you to certainly notice the difference from 480p versus 720p, or certainly 1080i or 1080p at roughly anywhere inside of ~ 12' or so. Unless of course, you're letting your set upscale the same 480p signal, and it's not a true 720p/1080i/1080p/HD video.

I don't believe it's necessarily the resolution *alone* that is the issue, but as mentioned before, the textures, as well as the ability to handle more objects on screen in motion at the same time. Resolution itself aside, I think either of those are worthy/important for some games. And I'd be ok playing many games on the Wii, just wouldn't choose it in most cases if the game was also available elsewhere. However, that *is* something Nintendo is good at - a lot of solid exclusives, and there's always value in those.

I certainly don't like the BD premium over movies on DVDs, *or* the rip-off that on demand services (Time Warner/cable, Sony, Apple..) are charging an added premium for HD on Demand, either..but then again, I also use Netflix to offset that, and it's well worht an additional $1 a month to get BD versions over DVD where available.

It *will* be interesting to see what/when on next gen, for all 3 - MS, Nintendo and Sony. Gameplay given cheap enough pricing, uniqueness (*good* exclusives), can certainly be king, as current Wii sales have shown, but even moreso if/when they narrow the graphics deficit and have an HD capable system. Of course, different people have different priorities..for me, I'll glady buy and play good Wii exclusives, but given multiple console ownership, I'd take the superior graphics of the PS3 and 360, for the *same* game, likely in *most* cases, over the Wii version of the same game.

Having said that, I think Sony might try to 'evolve' the Six Axis, and have it wind up looking suspiciously like the Wii-mote, but it's not like there isn't room for real innovation, either. I'd love to *finally* see 'the next step towards VR,' like we used to dream about forever ago, with one-off stereoscopic glasses apps, glove controls, whatever. I think my 'ideal' would be a system that instead of the Wii-Mote, used a set of wristbands, headband, 'ankle-bands,' all obviously with positional as well as accelerometer functions, and a small set of 'pads' to hold for extended actions/buttons. Allow games to then be played 'physically' or via more traditional/sedate remote, with decent graphics (say at least equivalent to todays PS3 or 360 games in 720p), and I'll buy it.

Add in the option of a headset display (3d displays, dual displays), and make some of the possibilities become more than gaming, like Guitar Hero actually *teaching* guitar, not just rapid finger movements, or Jujitsu or Aikido training/sparring, and I'll fall in love.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

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wegster wrote: @Lou No, I didn't fail to see the leap, and it wasn't an 'attack on the Wii,' really. I think the cartoony games look 'next gen enough,' and while some others are certainly improved, they (the more 'realistic ones' on the Wii) just don't do it for me, still, graphically. I have no doubt that many are fun to play, and have had many hours of fun just playing Wii Sports (tennis and boxing rock) with a friend. The controls comment - yes, I certainly wouldn't prefer Six-Axis to Wii for many games. However, not all games are suited to 'motion only' controls, COD may have been poor pick there, unless I can somehow simultaneously move, while aiming via motion control, using the WiiMote (maybe, with the nunchuck attachment?), otherwise I expect the D pat to be used for the Wii there, as well..?

All Wii FPS games use the Nunchuk to move the player and the Remote to aim the reticule precisely and as you approach the edges of the screen, the camera moves in the direction. There is a central area where aiming is pinpoint and no scrolling/camera movement occurs. This is usually adjustable.
The nunchuk motoin is usually used to throw grenades.

I strongly suggest you rent Metroid Prime 3 or Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 and take it to your friend's house and get a feel for Wii FPS controls. You may leave his house hoping MS releases their next system early as well with their own motion + pointing controllers as standard. The problem many Wii newbies have with the point-n-click-2-kill controls of the Wii is the lack of a steady hand. This is remedied by resting your elbow of the arm holding the Wii remote on your knee and just moving your wrist to aim/turn with the Wii Remote. It's a simple thing but sometimes the smallest changes bring the biggest results.

Sorry of I came off overly defensive.

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Games for the Wii are starting to look much closer to 360/PS3 games when run on 480p screens, however, the Wii's hid trumps the more powerful machines. You are finally seeing publishers and developers putting money into native Wii development rather than PS2 ports with Wii controls. Watch the trailer for Monster Hunter 3 and you'd never know it was being played on a Wii by looking at the graphics.

Funny, I took some games over to my cousin's house and I was playing Super Mario Strikers Charged and I was noticing the graphics on his SD set and I don't believe they could have looked any better on a 360 or PS3. It seems to use full screen AA.
I guess it depends on the application and the developer.

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Got a link for Monster Hunter trailer? (will go look).

As for a link the video, in the original NEOGAF thread I link, it had links to videos of just about every game on the list.

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I'm assuming by hid, you mean HID, or Human Interface Device? For some games, certainly, but not all. I'd still like one for my PS3, though, so it's not total disagreement here, just not the '100% level' you seem to be implying there with that statement.

Well, good controls also depend on the developer. For instance, I thought the controls on Madden 07 for the Wii were excellent and truly for the hardcore gamer (though their pointing accuracy was straight poop) but in Madden 08 they were dumbed-down a bit. I'm a big Madden fan and played them on all the systems and those Wii controls made the game 10x more enjoyable because of the true passing motion types, juke motions and stiff arm motions. If Madden controls can be made superior, I think when done properly or creatively, any game's controls can be as well.

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Again, relative term. I didn't initially see what exactly bugged me about them...I think it's the lack of textures overall. The main graphics (characters, enemies) look good in the shots, but the environments are kinda well, 'flat'/simple. The non cartoony games look like well done PS2 graphics to me.

In motion, I think you may not notice such things so much which is why I stessed "motion" pictures. Even on PS3/360 stills, you can usually point out weak geometry. Hi-res textures are a way to lessen the polygon count of your models. The Wii's gpu favors a balance in polygon count vs. textures, infact the Wii's gpu operates 3x faster than the GC's internally and if you recall the GC was able to push more ingame polygons than the Xbox or PS2. If you ever get to play Smackdown vs. Raw on the Wii or Super Smash Bros Brawl, you'll see that the character models have a high polygon count, especially when you pause SSBB and zoom in on them.
Even the N64 had a poor texture engine but massive polygon pushing capabilities over the PS1. It seems to be the Nintedo way of designing their gpu's. Hence, development teams can't directly apply the same textures from 360/PS3 resources.

Remember, the need for a rise textures is to reduce polygon count and polygons to which you have to apply effects to. The Wii gpu is quite the competent polygon/pixel pusher for SD resolutions. It just needs to be programmed properly.

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I don't believe it's necessarily the resolution *alone* that is the issue, but as mentioned before, the textures, as well as the ability to handle more objects on screen in motion at the same time. Resolution itself aside, I think either of those are worthy/important for some games. And I'd be ok playing many games on the Wii, just wouldn't choose it in most cases if the game was also available elsewhere. However, that *is* something Nintendo is good at - a lot of solid exclusives, and there's always value in those.

EA have always done graphics well on Nintendo platforms. I recommend you rent Madden and use the hardcore control setup, not the "All-Play" or Family-Play setup and run it in 480p in widescreen and I think you'll find it more fun. To me those graphics are pretty good and I prefer the gameplay there over the other versions graphics.

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I certainly don't like the BD premium over movies on DVDs, *or* the rip-off that on demand services (Time Warner/cable, Sony, Apple..) are charging an added premium for HD on Demand, either..but then again, I also use Netflix to offset that, and it's well worht an additional $1 a month to get BD versions over DVD where available.

Yes, I don't understand paying for content that is natively HD to begin with. If anything, more resources are used in downgrading it and reformatting to DVD. The same goes for transmitted signals. If you can fit 4 HD stations in place of one analag frequency, why should their be a premium charge for it. I refuse to pay it.

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It *will* be interesting to see what/when on next gen, for all 3 - MS, Nintendo and Sony. Gameplay given cheap enough pricing, uniqueness (*good* exclusives), can certainly be king, as current Wii sales have shown, but even moreso if/when they narrow the graphics deficit and have an HD capable system. Of course, different people have different priorities..for me, I'll glady buy and play good Wii exclusives, but given multiple console ownership, I'd take the superior graphics of the PS3 and 360, for the *same* game, likely in *most* cases, over the Wii version of the same game. Having said that, I think Sony might try to 'evolve' the Six Axis, and have it wind up looking suspiciously like the Wii-mote, but it's not like there isn't room for real innovation, either. I'd love to *finally* see 'the next step towards VR,' like we used to dream about forever ago, with one-off stereoscopic glasses apps, glove controls, whatever. I think my 'ideal' would be a system that instead of the Wii-Mote, used a set of wristbands, headband, 'ankle-bands,' all obviously with positional as well as accelerometer functions, and a small set of 'pads' to hold for extended actions/buttons. Allow games to then be played 'physically' or via more traditional/sedate remote, with decent graphics (say at least equivalent to todays PS3 or 360 games in 720p), and I'll buy it. Add in the option of a headset display (3d displays, dual displays), and make some of the possibilities become more than gaming, like Guitar Hero actually *teaching* guitar, not just rapid finger movements, or Jujitsu or Aikido training/sparring, and I'll fall in love.

One key feature people overlook of the Wii-Remote is the direct pointing feature. I think that is something patented by Nintendo, where as, the "motion" aspect of it isn't. The direct pointing is what makes FPS games much better controlled on the Wii. The Wii's controls go misunderstood by non-Wii owners. For instance, in Red Steel (an under-rated, over-critisized game by people who didn't play the game long enough when the Wii launched to get used to "the Wii's control scheme") when using a sniper rifle, if I hold the zoom button, I still aim with the Wii's pointing capabilities, but zoom in by moving the remote towars the screen and zoom out accordingly. It truly puts everything in your hands and gives you a more visceral interactivity with games in a very rewarding way that has to be played to be appreciated. Tri-angulation with the sensor bar is what makes it superior to anything the Sixaxis/DS3 can do. Having a second "motion" controller in the Nunchuk simply opens up even more possibilities. I love tossing grenades with it.

Gameplay translates directly to controls. Tetris on a GBA is just as much fun as Tetris on a PS3 or 360. Gameplay > graphics. When Wii controls are done right, the Wii version is always more fun to play. Better graphics are a bonus to a game, not a base for a game. Poorer gameplay cannot be overcome by better graphics and sound.

A movie with a bad script is still a bad movie even if it's producer spent a trillion dollars on special effects.

People laugh at games like Game Party for it's simple games and poor graphics yet the game sold rather well. Why? It's simply fun to throw darts and shoot hoops with the Wii remote. Gameplay. No it's not deep, but when your friends are over, you play it for simple fun and competition. It doesn't mean that the Wii can't have "deep" games, but it's initial market were fanboys who already have gotten their fix of the best from Nintendo themselves and the casuals who like WiiSports. However, now that the Wii total market share is so big, the deep games from 3rd parties now have a real chance at success and more hardcore gamers finally give the Wii a chance and can afford the multiple systems.

@wegster

A proper Monster Hunter 3 tri video
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-eUA-uTPpD_A/monster_hunter_3_trailer/

@Lou

Thanks for the MH3 link. Could certainly be fun with good controls (like actual control of your sword, etc).

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I strongly suggest you rent Metroid Prime 3 or Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 and take it to your friend's house and get a feel for Wii FPS controls. You may leave his house hoping MS releases their next system early as well with their own motion + pointing controllers as standard. The problem many Wii newbies have with the point-n-click-2-kill controls of the Wii is the lack of a steady hand. This is remedied by resting your elbow of the arm holding the Wii remote on your knee and just moving your wrist to aim/turn with the Wii Remote. It's a simple thing but sometimes the smallest changes bring the biggest results. Sorry of I came off overly defensive.

I may do that, or may yet wind up buying one...biggest issue is I have nearly zero free time right now, and literally have unopened games (older titles) for the PS3 I haven't had time to touch.

No worries, not like this thread in particular doesn't every get uhh, 'touchy'

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In motion, I think you may not notice such things so much which is why I stessed "motion" pictures. Even on PS3/360 stills, you can usually point out weak geometry. Hi-res textures are a way to lessen the polygon count of your models. The Wii's gpu favors a balance in polygon count vs. textures, infact the Wii's gpu operates 3x faster than the GC's internally and if you recall the GC was able to push more ingame polygons than the Xbox or PS2. If you ever get to play Smackdown vs. Raw on the Wii or Super Smash Bros Brawl, you'll see that the character models have a high polygon count, especially when you pause SSBB and zoom in on them.

Yeah, that fits with what I've seen. The main characters/objects look pretty good, but just not the textures/environment in full in many cases. Doesn't mean it's not fun, and I'm not so interested in comparing vs PS3 or 360. But, that would be good news for my comments of how capable the Wii is at having many objects moving on screen at once, just don't know if we've seen (well, I haven't, for the Wii, not saying much) a good example of a Wii game with that many onscreen at once.. ?

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People laugh at games like Game Party for it's simple games and poor graphics yet the game sold rather well. Why? It's simply fun to throw darts and shoot hoops with the Wii remote. Gameplay. No it's not deep, but when your friends are over, you play it for simple fun and competition.

Hey, Barbarian 2 or Turbo rachetti (spelling?) are still awesome multi-player games
The controls, as well as a 'good solid game' can certainly compensate for lack of graphical luster..(much moreso in the case of the two games I just mentioned, obviously..)

The MH3 video..I think you took offense when I said 'looks like PS2 graphics,' but I still see it. Not PS2 launch games, more like God of War 2, arguably one of the best graphical titles for the PS2. The video's a mixture of cut scenes and gameplay, and I like the two dragons little scene (althoug hthe later ones remind me of lair, lousy game). Looks like a fun game, though, it would be on my buy list likely if I owned a Wii or buy one later.

I still want 'my' next gen bands for motion controls, though

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Microsoft claims 28M 360 sales.

Wii Sports surpasses Mario as best selling game of all time w/ 40.6M in sales in only 2 years.

A round up regarding the PS3 for last year.

PS3 hardware sales were up about 40% for the US in 2008 despite a year of virtually no price cut on entry pricing (instead value add like bigger harddrive and game bundles). Worldwide hardware sales were also up around 40% compared to 2007. The PS3 is still tracking way ahead of the PS1 at this point taking equal timeframes, about double and of course that console sold over 100 million in the end. Blu-Ray movie related sales were up around 300%.

So the main reason for the PS3's increase seems to have been a stellar software line-up, considered to be the strongest in the industry this year. The 2009 line-up looks to become even more stellar as developers are tapping the PS3 hardware more and more than ever:

It looks to become a difficult year for PS3 naysayers, with amazing looking and known about PS3 exclusive games including Killzone 2, God of War 3, Infamous, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain, etc all expected to hit this year.

In addition potentially interesting exclusive like Demon's Soul, White Knight Chronicles, MAG, Eyepet, Quantum Theory, Trico, Twisted Metal, etc.

Potential exclusive sequel mega hit releases like Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy XIII (Japan).

I wonder if Sony has something special planned, considering all this fire power. I anticipate a PS3Three for 2009!

The 360 also saw an increase of hardware sales of around 40-45% worldwide, but the console sold for as low as 119 Euro including 19% taxes and free games. All major XBox games have now seen 360 sequels and the line-up for 2009 doesn't look as impressive:

Peter Molyneux (CVG): "Next year, well, it's all looking a bit dry," off the top of my head I cannot think of anything next year that really excites me. "

Basically known / rumoured about upcoming potentially 360 exclusive titles include:

Mass effect 2 (console exclusive), Halo 3: ODST standalone expansion, RacePro, Forza Motorsport 3, Alan wake (console exclusive), Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction (console exclusive), Ninja Blade, Halo wars and a few other lower profile Windows/360 multi-platform games.

Most of these titles already had prequels which pushed people to buy the console. If we are going to see a PSThree this year, I think we can make ourselves ready for some fireworks.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2009 at 10:51 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2009 at 10:50 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2009 at 10:45 AM.

@BrianK

We can call it almost cheating as it is sold in boundle to each Wii... but that simply means Wii is selling a lot.

Also I'm noting a lot of Horror titles popping up on Wii and that's imho is due to the high immersion level you can achieve by playing wiht remote + nunchuck compared to Keyboard+Mouse or Joypad.

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God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@ErikBauer

Nvidia takes on stereo 3D with GeForce 3D Vision
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10134983-100.html

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
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