@BrianK

Quote:

Economics of scale can also be enjoyed by IBM and the PowerPC. The Power series are in AIX/Linux, and I Series government and banking industries. PowerPC derviatives are in all 3 consoles. What's that about 20-25 Million per year. Not sure AMD sales numbers but I'd bet it's below 20 Million CPUs per year.

Not in ~1 billion(1)(2) and ~500 million(2) transistor class chip. Due to ATI, AMD sells more performance class chips. For every Xbox 360 and Wii, there's an AMD(ATI) chip.

1. Radeon HD 48x0 (RV770) i.e. range from 4830 to 4890. Includes 956 million transistors.

2. Radeon HD 47x0(RV740 or RV770) i.e. 4730 is a stripped down 55 nm RV770 i.e. still includes 956 million transistors. RV740 still packs 826 million transistors.

With POWER6's 789M transistors count, where's ~$150 USD offer?

3. Radeon HD 46x0 (RV730) i.e. range from 4650 to 4670. Includes 55 nm 514 million transistors.

On the CPU front, let's see if IBM offers a K10 class CPU that cost less than the CPU cooling fan...

With AMD, the sales numbers are for one CPU micro-architecture design i.e. K10. K10 variants are just "speed bins".

PowerPC 4x0/7x0/970 and PPE micro-architecture designs are not the same.

On top 100 supercomputers, notice the commodity processors from AMD and Intel dominates the unit counts.

From historical statistics, AMD/ATI is second (or sometimes first with case 40nm GPUs) to Intel in implementing** advance fabrication process i.e. PowerPCs are usually late in that regard.

**for mass production, not just prototyping.

In the GFLOPs race, I don’t see the separation lines between GpGPU and CPU, hence ATI/NVIDIA GpGPUs being used in both server and supercomputer applications.

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@tomazkid

Re: "The Neverending Story," AmigaOS needs a theme song sung by Limahl. That's solid operating system gold!

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@Zylesea

Quote:

say the particular hardware becomes more and more irrelevant (a coder doesn't has to care anymore if the bulk of the computatio gets executed by a particular harware unit (like the SPEs) or any other available chip as long as it has OpenCL support.

One of these paths was Intel's Larrabee. There were rumors abound that Sony had signed onto Larrabee for their next-gen console. The first Larrabee consumer cards were expected in 2010. Intel has killed them. However, it appears Intel has not killed the Larrabee idea. They are going forward with software compilers and might even have a product by the end of 2011.

IMO the cancellation was for at least 2 factors. Those were Intel just isn't ready with the silicon and once ready the part would be comparatively slow. Larrabee was demoed at 1TF. No slouch but indeed no market leader. AMD showed this sort of performance in 2008 and is shipping it in 2009. Larrabee wasn't supposed to go up against the current generation but the future. The competition is Nvida's Fermi, shipping early 2010, and AMD's Hectonchieres, shipping late 2010.

The question is what does this mean to the higher end of the console market. (Nintendo seems to add value to a lower cost product and sell in droves. IMO their next console will be based on a unified GPU/CPU architecture.) What will the high end consoles do? It's a guess if they think they can go 'low cost' and try to beat Nintendo at the popularity game or if they need to wear the performance crown. If it's the later we may see a Xbox Hectonchieres and ready in the 2011/2012 timeframe. Sony liked Nvidia on the PS3 so perhaps they'll go Fermi. Hard to say. One problem is indeed the Cell. What the 'Cell' will be is anyone's guess with the cancellation. Sure Sony can go it alone and have a Cell2 built but I think that'll again spell more financial losses for Sony. I think they'll head towards a more commodity chip.

In short, computing is changing in the next couple of years. How this impacts consoles is anyone's guess at this point. The certainity is that consoles will be impacted.

@BrianK

If both ATI RV870 (1600 SPs) and Larrabee (32 X86 SPs) shrinks to 28nm/32nm and both gains extra SP units, the problem experience today will also exist in the future.

Vs scenarios
32nm Larrabee (48 X86 SPs) vs 28nm RV970 (3200 SPs(1))
32nm Larrabee (64 X86 SPs) vs 28nm RV970 (3200 SPs(1))

1. Historically, flagship Radeon HDs went from (R600/RV670) 320 SPs -> (RV770) 800 SPs -> (RV870) 1600 SPs.

Last edited by Hammer on 08-Dec-2009 at 02:23 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 08-Dec-2009 at 02:21 AM.

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Homebrew release of Quake2 engine is out for Wii....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0b82DmdFUI

Now I do know what to do in my free time when my mind is too made up about Okami...

Last edited by ErikBauer on 09-Dec-2009 at 03:05 PM.

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God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

Nov sales #s are in... The typical
#1 Wii
#2 Xbox360
#3 PS3

360 bests the PS3 by ~100K consoles. LINK

This season will be closer than last between #2 and #3. It's unlikely #3 will outsell #2. It's certain even if #3 can do this for the month of Dec that they won't move from their overall last place position.

Seems the next 'big' race will come in 2010 w/ the new Wii-like controller for the PS3 or lack of controller as in the case of the 360.

Sony talks PSN Fees at investor meeting. Having both consoles the PSN network feels a year or two behind Live. It wouldn't be worth the $ for me. IMO if the PS3 is the user's only console and they love it, it'll be worth the payment. Though what a bad model give the user's it free for a few years then start payments. It feels like a bait and switch tactic. I think it best Sony not charge for the PSN until the PS4 gets on board.

Japan's Impress Watch reports that Sony is shopping around for alternatives to the Cell architecture and looking to go multi-core CPU.

Certainly Sony has a couple of years of work ahead of them. The rumored Sony to use Larabee is likely dead since Larabee is dead, at least in the short term. The Cell is dead too. Sony might be able to get a lower cost Power Series w/ Cell-like features build in but I wouldn't count on this.

What we know is 2010 is the Wii-like PS3 controller and the controlerless 360 options. This says to me 2011 isn't a new console for either of those 2 players. I supect 2013 may be a fair assessment.

With Sony's hit to the bottom line for the PS3 do you think they'll 'go it alone' and develope a whole new CPU? Or do something more Microsoft / Nintendo and have some modifications of something more standard?

@BrianK



Quote:

With Sony's hit to the bottom line for the PS3 do you think they'll 'go it alone' and develope a whole new CPU? Or do something more Microsoft / Nintendo and have some modifications of something more standard?

My guess is they go for modifications.


something else.

Wii reliability, a friends Wii just died a few days ago, from one day to next, it went completely "dead".

He bought it two years ago.

Bought my own around the same time as well, hope it isn't some general fault.

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Amazon.com's best sellers of 2009:

01. Wii
02. Wii Remote controller
03. Wii MotionPlus
04. Wii Nunchuk controller
05. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii)
06. Wii Fit Plus (Wii)
07. Wii Sports Resort (Wii)
08. Wii Fit (Wii)
09. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Xbox 360)
10. Mario Kart Wii (Wii)
11. PlayStation 3 Dualshock 3 controller
12. Wii Play (Wii)
13. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (PS3)
14. Wii Wheel
15. Assassin's Creed II (Xbox 360)
16. Halo 3: ODST (Xbox 360)
17. PlayStation 3 120 GB
18. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (PS3)
19. EA Sports Active (Wii)
20. Left 4 Dead 2 (Xbox 360)

http://kotaku.com/5442458/report-microsoft-drop-natal-chip

Natal just got cheaper...
...however...

Don't expect games like Modern Warfare 3 or GTA5 to [fully] use it because those types of games will need 100% of the cpu power for the action.

Also, it seems the Wii still has some tricks up it's sleeve...
http://tapionvslink.weebly.com/

Following those links shows evidence that the Wii's gpu is actually a GpGpu...
Really techie stuff...perhaps Hammer can elaborate...

Even Capcom has gone on record as rethinking that RE5 is possible on the Wii.

@Lou

Quote:

http://kotaku.com/5442458/report-microsoft-drop-natal-chip

Thanks for the news.

The article was interesting 'Microsoft has dropped a chip from its forthcoming Natal ' -- Early on in the article one has to question what this means. Certainly we see multiple processing cores on CPU and GPU's. Perhaps one of those chips increased in power to allow a better software layer. Use of doing this in software comes later in the article. Many assume this means the 360 will have the software layer. This makes sense. But, couldn't the Natal itself have the software layer, just crank the power up a bit of one of the other chips to allow it to do that function in software. Certainly when we see the final product and it's performance we'll know more.

As for backwards compatibility -- Microsoft said this is an option that developers might enable older software with a patch.

Though what I want Natal for is an interface for my OS and get rid of the mouse.

@BrianK

The 100ms delay is a game breaker for people who believe they are going to see games like GTA5 or GoW3 using NATAL...they simply will not.

Expect cheap cash-in titles that the Wii has been burdened with. Natal is for the casuals, welcome to Wii's world - ROLF.

Now a Xbox 720 could do it right...

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: Also, it seems the Wii still has some tricks up it's sleeve... http://tapionvslink.weebly.com/ Following those links shows evidence that the Wii's gpu is actually a GpGpu... Really techie stuff...perhaps Hammer can elaborate... Even Capcom has gone on record as rethinking that RE5 is possible on the Wii.

Very, very, very interesting read indeed... This little pearl surely has something to show yet!

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@Lou

Quote:

The 100ms delay is a game breaker for people who believe they are going to see games like GTA5 or GoW3 using NATAL...they simply will not.

I agree. The 360 is the console of choice for gamers in the US. The Wii being more casual. Though net the later has more sales. I can see why Microsoft wants to extend into the casual market. While profitable it is a marketshare game especially prior to going into the next generation.

Seems NATAL will use 10-15% of the 360's power. Again we'll see once it's out. For the casual user this may be fine. Sure no GTA or GoW but the Xbox has a large online user base which extends into casual games. Certainly the online arcade concept so people can play Pac-Man in 1080p against each other is reaching this casual user.

Quote:

Expect cheap cash-in titles that the Wii has been burdened with. Natal is for the casuals, welcome to Wii's world - ROLF.

I believe we'll see them.

On the other hand we see Sony admitting to their image problem. "Maybe You’ll Call Us Cool Again" - Sony CEO - Stringer. I wonder why their own CEO has to ask for this instead of making a statement? Certainly saying 'Sony is Cool Again!' brings more confidence to your vision. I hope Sony kills the new 'make.believe' moniker. I can envison all the negative posts on that one. PS3 - plays beyond is make believe (just to start one out.)

PS3 has good potential. After 3 years would Sony do something exciting with my console please? Unfortunately CES didn't bring much excitement to the 360 and even less to the PS3.

@BrianK

Recent Wii games have supported HDR lighting.
Monster Hunter 3:Tri
Cursed Mountain
Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles

Those games don't have framerate issues and have wowed reviewers.
A recent update to the Wii dev kit has magically unlocked more gpu memory for these newer games. One of those documents in the link suggest the Wii has 40-54MB of embedded ram. For reference, the 360 has 10MB...iirc.

The Unity game engine makes it seem like the default TEV (shader) functions (for GC graphics) are actually reprogrammable.

The ARM inside Hollywood acts as a memory controller like it does on the new Minimig boards.

Seems that the GpGpu is based on the ATI X1000 series. It's essentially emulating a Flipper (Gamecube gpu) most of the time but does have more umph...that "some" developers are only now choosing to take advantage of. Recall that Havok physics is supported on the Wii.

Unreal 3 running on mystery handheld with Terga cpu from NVIDIA
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/01/07/nvidia-shows-off-unreal-engine-3-on-tegra/

Terga is rumored to power the DS successor.

@Lou

Thanks for the Wii updates. I doubt it'll make a dent in the HardCore Gamer community. In the US the majority of those have the 360. With the 360's price and direction I believe it'll reach into the casual gamer arena more successfully than the PS3.

The PS3 appears to copy the Wii controller. Copying might be flattery but the game mechanics seem to be the same as the Wii Numchucks (or whatever they're called). The Natal takes that concept and changes it up. If one has the Wii do they want a Wii-like PS3 or something a bit more original w/ the 360? 2011-2012 will give us the answer.


I saw the Tegra 2 rumors for the next DS. Unfortunately Nintendo didn't announce anything offical. My wife likes her DS and we'd definitely get one over the PSPGo. Only Sony could bring out less functions at a higher price and expect to win...

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Thanks for the Wii updates. I doubt it'll make a dent in the HardCore Gamer community. In the US the majority of those have the 360. With the 360's price and direction I believe it'll reach into the casual gamer arena more successfully than the PS3. The PS3 appears to copy the Wii controller. Copying might be flattery but the game mechanics seem to be the same as the Wii Numchucks (or whatever they're called). The Natal takes that concept and changes it up. If one has the Wii do they want a Wii-like PS3 or something a bit more original w/ the 360? 2011-2012 will give us the answer. I saw the Tegra 2 rumors for the next DS. Unfortunately Nintendo didn't announce anything offical. My wife likes her DS and we'd definitely get one over the PSPGo. Only Sony could bring out less functions at a higher price and expect to win...

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/13442/terga_2_will_be_more_than_twice_the_power_of_tegra/index.html

http://kotaku.com/5441242/report-new-zelda-out-by-end-of-2010-first-ds-successor-details