@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: Nintendo, if memory serves, announced record profits in 2009 for their gaming division not losses Why are you surprised, they always generated profits ever since the NES. The profitable Wii sold well as well as profitable software sales.

Even the Gamecube made them money!

@MikeB

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @MikeB Quote: All the Japanese consumer electronics companies were in the red for last year (and apart from Sony they don't sell PS3s Which is why I didn't talk about them in a thread about consoles. Sony 2009 gaming is down and predicts 2010 gaming will continue to be down.

Talking about Sony's competitors in areas outside of consoles has as much place in this conversation (based on the thread topic) as talking about how Microsoft is doing against Oracle or Apple. That being very little if anything at all, especially when all one is doing is saying (to paraphrase) is: "Sony lost less billions then these other guys who are *not* in the business we are discussing here, isn't that great!".

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@MikeB

Quote:

There are plenty who think Killzone 2 looks much better than this mod (a vast majority it seems, on non-crysis related forums), me included. You easily notice far a lack of light sources,

There are light sources i.e. from weapons fire and the environment.

Quote:

weaker character animation and of course things like no realtime ragdol overlay for hit response or far less impressive blood, etc.

KZ2’s ragdol animation is pre-captured btw. German law limits Crysis's blood levels.

Quote:

It's just a mod (not a full game or anything), trying to make Crysis look like Killzone 2, but there are far too many technical differences. You will unlikely ever see the sheer amount of polishment regarding level design, surround sound or damage physics in mods like these.

Crysis has environment damage physics i.e. rocket mod or nuke mod.
As for surround sound, Crysis Warhead follows MS Window's speaker configuration e.g. 2.0, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1.

Crysis uses FMOD EX for it's sound system. FMOD EX is a cross-platfrom middleware e.g. runs on PS3, Xbox 360, PC DX9, PCDX10.
Refer to http://www.fmod.org/index.php/products/fmodex

FMOD Ex has the most largest range of supported hardware, including:
Windows (32bit and 64bit)
Macintosh (PPC and x86)
Linux (32bit and 64bit)
Sony PS2, PS3 and PSP
Microsoft Xbox and Xbox 360
Nintendo Gamecube and Wii
Solaris

Detailed features list for FMOD EX middleware.
http://www.fmod.org/index.php/products/fmodexdetailed

PS3 doesn't have a monopoly when it comes surround sound.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-May-2009 at 12:50 PM.

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@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: If they are going to revise the Elite to truly be elite, throw in a built-in BR drive. Then what will the PS3 have on an equally priced 'Elite'? Ah yes, the theoretically superior CELL Don't discard the dust collecting piano finish of the PS3! I doubt we'll see Blu-Ray on the 360. There is little reason for Microsoft to help Sony with having to pay licensing fees for a Blu-Ray drive or encouraging Blu-Ray movie sales.

Windows Vista SP2 comes with "support for burning Blu-ray data discs” .

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@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: I performed a fresh re-install of YDL 6.1 on my PS3 and everything is now running fine and customized to my wishes. Similar as to in these videos (I mostly use it to play old classics): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNhH7hLnYbo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5hR32lcrYM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYIPRIOfY7s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y8WrkDRMuI It's lots of fun being able to control these games by using PS3 controllers (especially for multi-player compared to on my PC) on a big screen HDTV, but to my dismay Yellow Dog Linux still isn't as user friendly as it should be for setting up, even on the PS3. If anyone else wants to try, I can provide tips and pointers on how to set things up properly. If it's your first go, I can imagine that without some help you will be scratching your head or banging it against the wall on occassions. If you're an Amigan, you'll probably think a lot of "this can be done more user friendly" or do these guys enjoy eating with their feet or something, making it needlessly challenging.

Quake3 (OpenGL) being software rendered via Swiftshader 2.01 (Direct3D 9b JIT X86 software renderer i.e. GPU not used) and MesaWin 6.0 (for OpenGL-to-Direct3D API bridge).
1. Average frame rate 32 FPS(timedemo 1, demo001), Normal Settings, 640x480p on Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 @2.2 Ghz.
2. Average frame rate 40 FPS(timedemo 1, demo001), Normal Settings, 640x480p on Intel Core 2 Duo P9500 @2.53 Ghz. I haven't tweaked Swiftshader's cache settings to P9500's 6MB L2 cache.

On the subject ATI Xenos GpGPU,

Notice "Raytracing acceleration structures" for the future.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-May-2009 at 02:01 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-May-2009 at 02:00 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-May-2009 at 01:11 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

Fiscal year 2009 net loss was 1 Billion USD

Wasn't the operational loss $2.9B?

Quote:

PS3 software sales more than doubled in FY 2009, for FY 2010 Sony expects PS3 hardware sales to be up by 30%

You switched from $ to unit counts. Sony expects their gaming to continue to lose money in 2010.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @MikeB Quote: Fiscal year 2009 net loss was 1 Billion USD Wasn't the operational loss $2.9B?

This source says $2.4B.

Quote:

Across all businesses, Sony reported a 12.9 percent decrease in annual sales to ¥7.73 trillion ($80.9 billion) and an operating loss of ¥227.8 billion ($2.4 billion). Net loss was ¥98.9 billion ($1.04 billion).

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23619

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@all

Analysis: Sony's Game Hardware Conundrum

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23662

Quote:

In 2007 and sometimes in 2008, Sony would refer to sales of the PlayStation hardware family – grouping the PlayStation 3 together with the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable (PSP) – to draw attention away from faltering sales of the nascent PlayStation 3.

...

Quote:

At 127,000 systems for the month (April 2009) (31,750 systems per week), the PlayStation 3 had its worst showing since October 2007, right before the introduction of the 40GB system at a lower $400 price.

...



Lets hope there is a $100 price cut announced at E3, if not for the current model, at least for the slim (if its real).

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 18-May-2009 at 05:54 PM.

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@all

Sony pressed to step up game in console war

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3b2e1be2-40af-11de-8f18-00144feabdc0.html

Quote:

Any price cut would mean a direct hit to Sony’s bottom line. A large part of the problem is that manufacturing costs have not come down as quickly as for past consoles, especially for one of the PS3’s main selling points, its Blu-ray disc player. “The problem is that we don’t have PCs this time,” says an engineer at one of Sony’s consumer electronics rivals. Whereas DVD drives came to be installed in almost every desktop and laptop computer, creating economies of scale in their manufacture, the same has not happened for Blu-ray.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 18-May-2009 at 06:05 PM.

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@all

http://www.businessinsider.com/sony-ps3-price-cut-around-the-corner-2009-5

Quote:

Sony's (SNE) PlayStation 3 is still getting its butt kicked by Nintendo's (NTDOY) cheaper Wii and Microsoft's (MSFT) older Xbox 360: In April, Sony sold an estimated 127,000 PS3s in the U.S., according to research firm NPD Group. That's 30% below Microsoft's Xbox sales -- and Nintendo's Wii is still outselling the PS3 almost 3-to-1. Based on comments from Sony's earnings call yesterday, now it seems the company is preparing price cuts to make the PS3 more affordable -- and give the platform a chance. (For more context, Sony sold 35% more price-reduced PS2s last month than PS3s, according to NPD.)

I hope that price cut comes soon!

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Talking about Sony's competitors in areas outside of consoles has as much place

I guess that was pointed at BrianK instead of me? He was referring to the 1 Billion USD net loss Sony as a whole had.

I don't mind so much, it's still relevant IMO. For example the PS3 can be a reason to buy a HDTV, if the PS3 would have been a PS2.5 that would probably be far less the case. And probably HD DVD would have died less quickly. Etc, there are many factors to consider why Sony wouldn't have wanted to release a cheap low spec console.

@MikeB

Quote:

I guess that was pointed at BrianK instead of me?

No it was to you, which is why it had @MikeB

Quote:

it's still relevant IMO. For example the PS3 can be a reason to buy a HDTV, if the PS3 would have been a PS2.5 that would probably be far less the case. And probably HD DVD would have died less quickly. Etc, there are many factors to consider why Sony wouldn't have wanted to release a cheap low spec console.

You were not relating this to a "cheap low spec console" before. You were only referring to the losses of Hitachi, Toshiba, NEC, and Panasonic to make the Sony loss look less significant *in general*.

POST #398

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 18-May-2009 at 06:47 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 18-May-2009 at 06:46 PM.

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@fairlanefastback

I was replying to BriianK, regarding company performance.

Sony is a Japanese consumer electronics company, thus I compared its performance to other Japanese consumer electronics companies which are also suffering from the high value Yen vs the low value Dollar.

I thought this was obvious and paints a far more complete picture.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Analysis: Sony's Game Hardware Conundrum

It's worth emphasizing the analysis regards just the United States. Regarding Japan for example the PS3 performaned better this year. I know this upsets some, that I provide a fuller picture. For example for Arpil PS3 hardware sales were up 275% compared to last year.

Most important are of course the PAL regions. The Euro is also a bit stronger than the US dollar, so could be more interesting financially to Sony as a company.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @fairlanefastback I was replying to BriianK, regarding company performance.

In post 411 you said instead you were replying with that info to explain "why Sony wouldn't have wanted to release a cheap low spec console." Yet as already pointed out you did not say that originally. Now you say differently again (big surprise).

Quote:

Sony is a Japanese consumer electronics company, thus I compared its performance to other Japanese consumer electronics companies which are also suffering from the high value Yen vs the low value Dollar. I thought this was obvious and paints a far more complete picture.

A more complete picture of what? The topic is "PS3, Wii, XBox". Let me give a similar example. If the topic were about how the Fiat 500 might fare in the U.S. vs. the VW bug it would probably be going off on a tangent to praise VW because they might be bleeding less money on the books then say Mercedes.

Same here with praising Sony for bleeding less than other companies from its country that don't make game consoles. Not to mention the fact that, even if we were to collectively agree in this thread that Sony losing less money then NEC had anything to do with consoles the stat by itself has little meaning.

When looking at losses the nature of the losses is vital. The losses vs. cash reserve, current debt, and assets all come into play for significance.

Case in point. Lets say I lose $200 on the street today, and then I find out later tonight on the phone with my Mom that she lost $100 on the street by some odd coincidence today as well. Who is in the worse position? At first glance me. But looking at further data could easily lead to a different conclusion. Maybe I'm better off because I had more in the bank to start with, maybe because I earn more week to week, etc.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 18-May-2009 at 08:50 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 18-May-2009 at 08:49 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

I know this upsets some, that I provide a fuller picture.

Upsets who Mike? The analysis *clearly* states:

"in-depth NPD U.S. game industry sales analysis"

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

In post 411 you said instead you were replying with that info to explain "why Sony wouldn't have wanted to release a cheap low spec console." Yet as already pointed out you did not say that originally. Now you say differently again (big surprise)

No reread. I was comparing company performance.

Then I said I personally don't mind this (I would not make a big deal about this if BrianK wants to discuss this for various reasons). But IMO for the sake of relevance, then of course performance should be compared to similar companies.

Quote:

Not to mention the fact that, even if we were to collectively agree in this thread that Sony losing less money then NEC had anything to do with consoles the stat by itself has little meaning.

Read above.

And considering the expensive high spec nature of the console it's not a suprise that Sony would be losing money on the console. Sony said that the current console is sold for 10% less than it costs them to make (great for the consumer, not so great *yet* for the shareholder, but I'm a consumer, not a shareholder)

Quote:

When looking at losses the nature of the losses is vital. The losses vs. cash reserve, current debt, and assets all come into play for significance.

The XBox series lost a lot more money than the Playstation series, if we would blindly just look at the consoles themselves.

However looking at the big picture, Sony certainly was willing to invest billions to make sure they win the format war and they won this quicker than expected due to the PS3. This is great for PS3 gaming and multi-media standards.

Sony has lots of assets and this is their first loss in 14 years, it's not that big of a deal regarding the PS3 (the bulk of employees being affected are from other Sony divisions). What is a bigger deal is that the Yen is too strong compared to US dollar, making it hard to drop pricing for the US (but sales are still on track).

Quote:

my Mom that she lost $100

What a bad example, it not like Sony just lost the money regarding PS3 sales. It can be viewed as investment. PS3 software sales more than doubled last year, those consumers Sony invested in to own a PS3 by selling below actual cost will buy more software for many years to come.

Blu-Ray sales are up strongly as well, maybe they would sell fewer Bravias without the PS3, maybe they would sell fewer 7.1 surround systems if there were no PS3, etc.

From this perspective a company could never invest billions of USD in R&D, as there are no immediate returns on investment. You just throw cash into the trashcan from this perspective, however that's not the case.

For example we are starting a new clinic and it will take quite a while (and more investment) before all the money invested will be earned back and we turn profitable. The clinic isn't a trashcan money was wasted on.

As pointed out before the PS3 launched, the PS3 is aimed at a 10 year lifecycle. We are still in only 26 months into its lifecycle since release in all major regions. Another 94 months to go and maybe even more depending on how the market develops.

Last edited by MikeB on 18-May-2009 at 09:30 PM.

Uncharted 2 gameplay:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/extended-warzone-uncharted-2/49328

I think this demonstrates well why Sony made the PS3 highly specced.

I said that many times in my life so I'll say it here aloud.


Since I had A500, I NEVER ENJOYED ANY PC/console gaming anymore.

The only games I've been playing for last 15 years are Amiga games.

To be honest, the only exception goes to HOM&M.

***

Now I feel I can rest in piece.

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Some old test footage of the PS3 exclusive Trico Project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF3fED8EXl4

IMO looking very promising!