@MikeB

Quote:

PS3 hardware sales were up about 40% for the US in 2008 despite a year of virtually no price cut on entry pricing (instead value add like bigger harddrive and game bundles). Worldwide hardware sales were also up around 40% compared to 2007. The PS3 is still tracking way ahead of the PS1 at this point taking equal timeframes, about double and of course that console sold over 100 million in the end. Blu-Ray movie related sales were up around 300%. So the main reason for the PS3's increase seems to have been a stellar software line-up, considered to be the strongest in the industry this year. The 2009 line-up looks to become even more stellar as developers are tapping the PS3 hardware more and more than ...

Still fluff, comparing to PS1 is a joke, and PS3 is #3 in sales and in total sales for 2008.


Quote:

exclusive games including Killzone 2, God of War 3, Infamous, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain, etc all expected to hit this year. In addition potentially interesting exclusive like Demon's Soul, White Knight Chronicles, MAG, Eyepet, Quantum Theory, Trico, Twisted Metal, etc. Potential exclusive sequel mega hit releases like Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy XIII (Japan).

Will have to go look for a few of those. White Knight, KZ2, GOW3, are very likely purchases from me. Infamous, Uncharted 2 and GT5 are 'highly possibles' assuming no surprises/decent reviews (from the general public, not you, Mike )

Need to see what Heavy Rain, Quantum Theory and Twisted Metal are - is TM the next version of the 'crazy clown car game'? If so, I'm in on that one, awesome multi-player game.

Quote:

upcoming potentially 360 exclusive titles include: Mass effect 2 (console exclusive), Halo 3: ODST standalone expansion, RacePro, Forza Motorsport 3, Alan wake (console exclusive), Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction (console exclusive), Ninja Blade, Halo wars and a few other lower profile Windows/360 multi-platform games.

Halo 3 I'd be in for, but that's in on that list for me, unless 'Ninja Blade' turns out to be stellar.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @ErikBauer Nvidia takes on stereo 3D with GeForce 3D Vision http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10134983-100.html

As well as ATI.
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10134449-100.html?tag=mncol;txt

ATI's solution requires a 120Hz LCD but passive glasses, Nvidia uses active LCD glasses. Will be interesting to see wher this converges, can't wait!

Last edited by wegster on 08-Jan-2009 at 11:57 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Hammer In relation to the PS3 that sounds familiar: PS3 may feature stereoscopic 3D in 2009 http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/12/19/ps3-may-feature-stereoscopic-3d-in-2009

As well as the 360...
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/05/22/james-cameron-talks-xbox-360-stereoscopic-3d

Last edited by wegster on 08-Jan-2009 at 11:57 PM.

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@Lou

Thanks, the video's better. Stil l lack of textures, but it looks good.

Here's an official GOW2 trailer for the PS2- the Wii graphics do look better, but you can see similarities there:
http://ps2.ign.com/dor/objects/811719/god-of-war-2-divine-retribution/videos/gowIItrailer.html

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@jtsiren

Quote:

jtsiren wrote: :) PS3 cheaper than 360 http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=2759

Quoting from the linked article for truth:
Quote:

My jaw dropped when I saw the most recent e-mail from Sony's press department. No big new games, no pricecut (yeah I know they can't afford that), no convincing reason to buy a PS3. No instead of that all Sony sent an e-mail with a table comparing, of all things, their price with that of its competitors. Now, I am no PR specialist, but I think you have to make considerably more effort than this one to really convince people that your weakest point is actually, really your strongest. In the e-mail Sony claims that the Arcade model of the Xbox360 is actually $449-499 against a $399 PS3. Now it's definitely true that a 360 Arcade with the mentioned features will cost something like that, however someone that buys an Arcade model very likely doesn't want those features anyway. I also invite the writer of this press release for a limited match of Mario Kart online or to check some of my limited VC games. Now the point is not that this is all completely false, the point is that it's totally ridiculous that Sony, in a time where they appear to be in major financial trouble and have lost momentum with the PS3 in the all important holiday months, resorts to these kind of very strange PR tactics, instead of making a real effort of selling the PS3. Pointing to the flaws of the competition often is some kind of last resort and to be honest it sounds very immature. Strangest thing of it all is that they basically advertise Wii as the cheapest machine! Maybe they really don't consider it a competitor.

Last edited by wegster on 09-Jan-2009 at 12:36 AM.

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@MikeB


Quote:

In relation to the PS3 that sounds familiar: PS3 may feature stereoscopic 3D in 2009

Yawn, cool tech but I seen the very same thing 6 years ago...

CES 2003

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@Hammer

Quote:

Intel releases a range of Core 2 processors with base price of $221 USD for E6300 1.86Ghz with 2MB of shared L2 cache. The E6300 can easily be over clocked to 2.69GHz.

$221 is too expensive for a console, overclocking is irrelevant as they'd *all* have to run at that rate without any overclocking or overvolting.

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Remember, Xenon’s L2 cache is clocked at half the speed (i.e. 1.6Ghz)

Yes, but the line length is very long (128 Bytes IIRC).


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it’s only a dual instruction issue per cycle PPE core and has 21-stage pipeline.

Exactly. The PPE is designed as a throughput processor, not a control processor.

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While, Core 2's L2 cache is clocked at full speed, it issues four instructions per cycle and has 14 pipeline stages. The same arguments in Pentium 4 vs PowerPC 7447 in regards to shorter pipeline advantages bites back.

The arguments are not even close, The P4 was attempt to take something very complex to a high clock speed, they got to around 4GHz but it consumed 150W in the process. The Cores in the PPE are much simpler, and consume around 25W at 3.2GHz.

Quote:

As a command processor for games, shorter pipelined Athlons, Core 1 and Core 2 kills Pentium IV’s longer pipelined design i.e. 21-stage for Northwood, 31-stages for Prescott.

Yes, but herein is the difference. You don't need a fast control processor for games - control is less than 1% of the workload. The PPE can do control but mostly it's designed for high vector throughput. The PPE is designed for a very specific workload, x86 desktop processors are not, they're designed for many different workloads. Hence the difference.

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@Lou

Quote:

Quote: jtsiren wrote: PS3 cheaper than 360 http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=2759 LOL! Sony forgot to add in the cost of a PS2 for that "backwards compatibility" feature... Also, aren't the additional DS3 controllers the most epensive on the market compared to 360 and Wii? Finally, I wonder how long HOME will stay free after it comes out of beta...atleast NXE is not in beta... Rumors are circulating of a PS3 price drop in March/April. I wonder what they'll remove next from the hardware? LOL!

Good catch! Certainly the Sony would want the PS3 to have the most games. If we ignore it's lack of bc then it's at the back of the pack of games. We need to add a PS2 price to the PS3! Now the PS3 has the most games certainly a win for Sony in one aspect.

I suspect Sony will keep HOME free and be paid for with more companies pushing their products. Red Bull Flying may be good if one doesn't mind spending their whole gaming time watching an ad for a product that tastes like Bull urine.

@minator
Quote:

$221 is too expensive for a console, overclocking is irrelevant as they'd *all* have to run at that rate without any overclocking or overvolting.

The context was refering to clockspeed yields instead of "what the market demands". At that time, Intel didn't have a creditable direct competition.

Quote:

Yes, but the line length is very long (128 Bytes IIRC).

The Pentium IV uses a 128-byte L2 cache line size btw.

According to wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor)
Xenon has "51.2 gigabytes per second of L2 memory bandwidth (256 bit × 1600 MHz)."

Quote:

The arguments are not even close, The P4 was attempt to take something very complex to a high clock speed, they got to around 4GHz but it consumed 150W in the process

Actually, Pentium IV's ALUs are double pumped i.e. effectively clocked twice the marketed clock speed e.g. 3.2Ghz marked Pentium IV has it's ALUs clocked at 6.4Ghz effective. It's L2 cache is clocked at marketed speeds e.g. 3.2Ghz
The Xenon is not the only CPU design with dual clock speeds domain.

http://www.anime.net/~goemon/benchmarks.html
Xbox 360's Xenon simple dhrystone benchmark.
RESULT: 3015837.2, INDEX:134.8

Mac Mini G4/1250 (-O -fast -faltivec -mcpu=G4 -mtune=G4)
RESULT: 3896391.2 INDEX:174.2

PowerMac G5 (1.8ghz, 512mb PC3200, gcc version 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495), -fast)
RESULT: 7742194.2, INDEX: 346.2.
PowerPC 970's wider instruction issues i.e. 4 instructions + 1 branch per cycle potential shows it's advantages.

Since Xenon's L2 cache is clocked at 1.6Ghz, it's performance results is around CPUs with similar clock speeds. Most of Xbox 360’s stream performance comes from Xenos GPU.

PowerPC 970 killed the Xenon. All it needs is a dual core PPC970 version with a built-in dual channel memory controllers and ATI (CAL/D3D10.1/ OpenCL**/OpenGL3.0**) GpGPU (e.g. under $100USD Radeon HD 4670 with 320 stream processors). You’ll get a box that can play GRID at 1080p not consoles’s 720p. Nextgen Wii HD anyone?

**Incoming driver releases.

Quote:

Yes, but herein is the difference. You don't need a fast control processor for games - control is less than 1% of the workload.

Depends on API and graphics pipeline topology. DX9 API requires more CPU dot generation and control intervention compared to DX10 .

Link

Quote:

The PPE can do control but mostly it's designed for high vector throughput. The PPE is designed for a very specific workload, x86 desktop processors are not, they're designed for many different workloads. Hence the difference

There are wintel games that are designed with Pentium IV in mind e.g. Unreal 2 with Intel Pentium IV logo.

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@wegster

Quote:

Will have to go look for a few of those. KZ2, GOW3, are very likely purchases from me. , Uncharted 2 and GT5 are 'highly possibles'

Wait wasn't MikeB's criticism of the 360 is all the sequel games coming out in 2009? Yet the most looked forward to titles on the PS3 are sequels?

@wegster

Yes, it seems they put alot of resources into individual "stages" but it differs from Monster Hunter 3 in that MH3 is a wide open environment that feels fully alive. Call it the GTA4 of dinosaur slaying if you will. Also, MH3 has online 4 player co-op. I feel that MH3 looks more realistic as well. The lighting in MS3 is superior comparing the videos.

Capcom knows how to push Nintendo tech, just recall RE4 on the Gamecube and then upping the ante on the Wii version. The Edge-Online.com writer seems to think they have taken the lead (over even Nintendo) in Wii graphics. I don't see what you see that is lacking in textures. The dinosaurs in it clearly have much better detail that the cloned armor suits I saw in the GoW2 video of which all pieces of armor use the same texture. In GoW2, the enviroment is one animation and the action with Kratos looks simply set in it, they stand out from it. In MH3, everything seems to blend with the environment.

Let me elaborate. In the scene with "Colossus" in the background and Kratos fighting shiny armored knights, the knights seem to only move in 8 directions. This leads me to believe that they were pre-rendered. They also stand out in an otherwise dim room. On MH3, nothing seems pre-rendered and it looks like everything belongs in the scene. I haven't played the game but if Kratos' movements are also limited to eight directions instead of true analog movement, then I would assume he was pre-rendered as well. Think of classic Mortal Kombat graphics but with the gameplay of TMNT.
Again, I'm just deducing this from videos. So it's just my opinion. Other than they being 3rd person games, I see no similarities in design even though the actually gameplay might be similar.

Let me put it this way. Let's look at the classic game of Pole Position. If it were recreated today, it could be done 2 diffent ways. One way is to make it a full 3D racing sim and keeping the camera angle fixed just like the original. Another would be to juice up the sprites and up all the graphics to modern standards with obviously more frames of animation to the vehicles when they are turning. The net result of the game visually speaking could be the same, though each frame is rendered completely different in the two versions...yet they both "look fully 3D".

Actually, GoW2's fighting leading up to the bosses reminds me alot of Spartan:Total Warrior. A game that was out for all 3 last-gen systems. That game also features some epic boss battles. This game's engine is fully 3-d with good AI though the overall graphics are below GoW2, I know there were no shortcuts taken to get up to 180 soldiers on screen at the same time.
http://cube.ign.com/dor/objects/734613/spartan-total-warrior/videos/Spartan_072805_1.html
Please watch all the videos.
Edit: I do own the Gamecube version by the way. Fun game.

Last edited by Lou on 09-Jan-2009 at 04:37 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @wegster Quote: Will have to go look for a few of those. KZ2, GOW3, are very likely purchases from me. , Uncharted 2 and GT5 are 'highly possibles' Wait wasn't MikeB's criticism of the 360 is all the sequel games coming out in 2009? Yet the most looked forward to titles on the PS3 are sequels?

Why yes, I believe it was, and yes, they are.

To be fair though, there *do* seem to be more PS3 exclusives for 2009 vs what I could find of 360 exclusives, at least in several previews and 'games to look forward to lists' I've found (many were also cross-platform though). I did expect to find more 360 2009 exclusives that sound good than I did, though - know of more or specific others?

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@Lou

Quote:

Yes, it seems they put alot of resources into individual "stages" but it differs from Monster Hunter 3 in that MH3 is a wide open environment that feels fully alive. Call it the GTA4 of dinosaur slaying if you will. Also, MH3 has online 4 player co-op. I feel that MH3 looks more realistic as well. The lighting in MS3 is superior comparing the videos.

Oh, I didn't realize MH was more hrm, 'GTA or Fallout/Oblivion-like, but that should certainly make it fun, too.

No argument on graphics..Wii does look better than GoW2/PS2.

My intent wasn't to compare gameplay at all, just 'graphics quality or feel,' and as a result of watching GoW2 (I do own it, and have played it a bit, but it's always upscaled on my sets), I think while very nice for a 'last hurrah' on the PS2, the Wii character graphics and in general are certainly better. (So I've 'downgraded' GoW2 compared to MH3, actually). The textures (mostly environmentals)..I keep coming back to, though They are still better on Wii, just a compromise...like they certainly have used tricks to pull off GoW2 on PS2, it seems the Wii (MH3) shows good character detail, and ok environment, but somewhat flat on environmental textures (ground, walls, etc). It's not the end of the world, and wouldn't make me not play it.

Spartan looks like fun, with a good (one of the videos claimed up to 150 or 180) enemies/moving objects on screen at once, and yes, certainly has a resemblance in several ways to GoW2.

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@BrianK

Quote:

Wait wasn't MikeB's criticism of the 360 is all the sequel games coming out in 2009? Yet the most looked forward to titles on the PS3 are sequels?

What I stated and pointed to was quite obvious. For example the Halo 3 expansion, Halo 3 is already on the 360, so is unlikely to cause a major push to buy the platform (the most vivid fans of the series already own a 360). Similar with regard to Forza 3, Forza 2 is already on the 360 and so on.

Killzone 2 and God of War 3 are awesome looking sequels on the PS3 to PS2 games. Is it really so hard for you and Wegster to understand?

@wegster

Quote:

Will have to go look for a few of those. White Knight, KZ2, GOW3, are very likely purchases from me. Infamous, Uncharted 2 and GT5 are 'highly possibles' assuming no surprises/decent reviews

For me Killzone 2, God of War 3 and Uncharted 2 are the must-haves.

Quote:

Need to see what Heavy Rain, Quantum Theory and Twisted Metal are - is TM the next version of the 'crazy clown car game'? If so, I'm in on that one, awesome multi-player game.

Regarding Twisted Metal, yes.

Heavy Rain is one of the best looking games currently under development, very good real-time graphics and a great atmosphere judging from a level walkthrough by a dev. It's like a thriller game with maniac killers.



Quote:

Quantum Theory

A trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfpgRYq3nFM

@MikeB

Quote:

Killzone 2 and God of War 3 are awesome looking sequels on the PS3 to PS2 games. Is it really so hard for you and Wegster to understand?

Ahh I see Sony killed backward compatibility off so there is no GoW2 on the PS3 only GoW3 so clearly it's not a sequel.

If my memory serves I recall MikeB discounting Halo3 as a sequel that would surely not sell as well?

@Wegster

I think both consoles have some good exclusives coming. They also both have sequels. They also both have the shared games. Brutal Legend is one I'm looking forward to. Not sure which version I'd buy. I like the 360 controllers better so if the graphics are close then likely the 360.

Certainly exclusives can sell consoles. These days more and more days are multi-console. The question becomes do the multi-console release have a bigger audience draw. Are they enough and the economy still down enough that the lower priced console is more attractive for gaming? Certainly some of these cross platform titles -- Final Fantasy XIII -- would have driven a console more had that console owned more market share and been able to sustain the profits for a solo release.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Jan-2009 at 12:29 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Only places of concern are the United States, United Kingdom and Australia, but I think this will be overcome when the major PS3 blockbusters like Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4 hit those countries (there's nothing in the XBox 360 known line-up for 2008 which comes close to the anticipation of Halo 3, which has of course already been released a while ago).

Interestingly without a halo game (pun intenteded) the 360 beat the PS3. In Europe Microsoft claims to have doubled sales over last year.

I too made the mistake of expecting the PS3 to pull ahead of the 360 in 2008.

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote: @Lou (So I've 'downgraded' GoW2 compared to MH3, actually). The textures (mostly environmentals)..I keep coming back to, though They are still better on Wii, just a compromise...like they certainly have used tricks to pull off GoW2 on PS2, it seems the Wii (MH3) shows good character detail, and ok environment, but somewhat flat on environmental textures (ground, walls, etc). It's not the end of the world, and wouldn't make me not play it. Spartan looks like fun, with a good (one of the videos claimed up to 150 or 180) enemies/moving objects on screen at once, and yes, certainly has a resemblance in several ways to GoW2.

I guess we are focussing on different things then. I focus on the action. The environment just needs to support it or suffice.

Overall, I think the Wii will now meet or exceed Xbox (original) games in quality for future 'core' games.

Spartan: Total Warrior is an overlooked gem released at the end of 'last-gen'.
You upgrade abilities and skill into new ones, so it had a slight RPG element to it. There is an environment puzzle aspect to it as well. A well-rounded game really. I love Greek/Roman mythology and would probably love the God of War series but I'm not going to invest in a separate system for it at this point.

Interestingly, Ares is your ally in Spartan. Quite the contrast from GoW.
Another cool thing about Spartan is it feature special move effects like in the movie 300 where you are dual-wielding and lop 2 soldiers' heads off at the same time. Over all the game has quite an epic feel to it.

Last edited by Lou on 09-Jan-2009 at 01:02 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: Wait wasn't MikeB's criticism of the 360 is all the sequel games coming out in 2009? Yet the most looked forward to titles on the PS3 are sequels? What I stated and pointed to was quite obvious. For example the Halo 3 expansion, Halo 3 is already on the 360, so is unlikely to cause a major push to buy the platform (the most vivid fans of the series already own a 360). Similar with regard to Forza 3, Forza 2 is already on the 360 and so on. Killzone 2 and God of War 3 are awesome looking sequels on the PS3 to PS2 games. Is it really so hard for you and Wegster to understand?

But they are sequels to Sony exclusives. That means that people who would buy them already own a PS3 in anticipation of them and all the other prior titles you assumes would save the platform in the past...and probably bought it when the system still had some backwards compatibility. Sony is doing nothing to expand their user base. The only people who've downloaded home are people who follow Sony online already. No one went out and bought a PS3 when Home beta went public. That's like saying I should buy a new PC when Windows 7 is released.

The PS2 was successful because casuals found some comfort in it in Guitar Hero, Katamary and such...also I'm sure the out of warranty failure rate helped as well.

Speaking of failure rates...2 years out now and I've hear whispers of many a bluray drive failing in the PS3. Typical Sony 'drive' quality if you ask me. Great at initial quality, but not in the longer term. Perhaps the PS3 will sell more due to it's "quality" afterall...lol..

I've seen BR players for $170 now. If a PS3 was purchased mainly as a cheap BR player, it's out of warranty replacement may not be a PS3. In this case, PS3 sales have probably peaked already, meanwhile the 360 keeps looking more attractive to the core gamer and the Wii locks up the casual market.

Look at it this way. 360 Arcade is $200(US) and BR players are $170 now. For $370, I can have a great console and play the latest HD movies. How much is a PS3 again?
Expect a $30-$50 price drop circa April. At that point, MS simply drops their prices again circa E3. Doomed.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: Wait wasn't MikeB's criticism of the 360 is all the sequel games coming out in 2009? Yet the most looked forward to titles on the PS3 are sequels? What I stated and pointed to was quite obvious. For example the Halo 3 expansion, Halo 3 is already on the 360, so is unlikely to cause a major push to buy the platform (the most vivid fans of the series already own a 360). Similar with regard to Forza 3, Forza 2 is already on the 360 and so on. Killzone 2 and God of War 3 are awesome looking sequels on the PS3 to PS2 games. Is it really so hard for you and Wegster to understand?

Choose your words more carefully, then, if you wish to be 'understood' better, or if you think people don't near immediately pick out your 'one way tinting' of the PS3. Your words certainly referenced sequels somehow being inferior for sales..


Quote:

The 360 also saw an increase of hardware sales of around 40-45% worldwide, but the console sold for as low as 119 Euro including 19% taxes and free games. All major XBox games have now seen 360 sequels and the line-up for 2009 doesn't look as impressive: ... ... Most of these titles already had prequels which pushed people to buy the console. If we are going to see a PSThree this year, I think we can make ourselves ready for some fireworks.

Your bias and overwhelming opinion of your own opinion comes out in nearly every post. Is it so hard to understand most don't agree with you, though? (misleading total sales, and Xmas sales drop year over year for PS3 by claiming it's up for the year, or laughably in comparison to ps ONE sales..enough others.. : )

*shrug* Doesn't matter, really. As I did state, I haven't found many (nearly any) exclusive 360 titles of significance/interest for me for the 360 in 09 so far.

Your bias and overwhelming opinion of your own opinion comes out in nearly every post. Is it so hard to understand most don't agree with you, though?

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