@Lou

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You can't win an arguement because he simply changes the argument on the fly.

This statement doesn't sound too far off. I claimed Sony didn't want to lose all PS2 profits and his counter is Sony as a company is fine. One is partially dependent on each other but they aren't the same.

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It's a constant game of rock, paper, scissors.

The game appears to be this with a special rule. Say PS3 and you beat all 3.

@MikeB

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@BrianK Quote: Certainly there will be videos of all different games for Natal. The potential I see for Natal is Minority Report style of interactions with the OS and applications. Something neither Wii nor Wand could do as they're being held in your hand and you're still pushing buttons. What has been shown has already been done by Japanese consumer electronics companies with an ordinary camera (lacking an infrared sensor) well before Microsoft announced Natal. We have seen nothing of Minority Report style navigation with Natal.

Natal is named Kinect.

MikeB -- Catch the Xbox Dashboard + Kinect video from E3. The Dashboard is able to be controlled without a controller. Seems the potential for Minority Report like controls, sans glove, is something Microsoft has thought about and is bringing to the 360. The Kinect example also showed media playback. Raise your arm, fast foward, pull back to stop and play. Again no controller.

Is Kinect an Eyetoy? Sure if someone shot the EyeToy up with steriods.

@BrianK

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The $6Billion loss may be 'short term'

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You can't win an arguement because he simply changes the argument on the fly.

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This statement doesn't sound too far off.

Actually my arguments over the years have remained virtually steadfast, an example discussion between you and me here on Amigaworld before the PS3's global launch. In these discussion various people funnily speculated on the downfall of Sony.

MikeB: "Good overall financials allows them to invest huge amounts of money into their gaming devision (while running huge devision losses) without the company actually running into financial problems (a la Commodore).

It's clear the Playstation 3 is not only important to their gaming devision, but also with regard to their television (HDTV) and consumer electrionics (Blu-Ray). IMO it's not wise to adopt a tunnel vision and not look at the whole picture."

BrainK: "How would they handle the estimated $40 Billion loss?"

MikeB: "That's not going to happen, PS3 production costs will go down, software sales will go up."

So I never adopted a tunnel vision approach, and PS3 production costs have dropped dramatically and software sales are up dramatically (so much so that now PS3 software sold far more than XBox 360 software last year despite a 4.47 million hardware lead for the XBox 360 at the time)

Last edited by MikeB on 14-Jun-2010 at 07:31 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 14-Jun-2010 at 07:29 PM.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/14/microsoft-e3-keynote/

Looks like the next HALO will have better graphics:

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11:02AM This absolutely looks like a step up graphically, but it's still unmistakably Halo. There's a fantastic animation of one of the Covenant ships being blown out of the sky, and the enclosed Covenant flipping over our heroes. 11:04AM It's the interior of a base. One of our team climbs in an shuttle and blasts off. Oh ####, it's a fighter. There's space combat!

shipping today:


Meanwhile, Sony is set to announce a 500GB MOVE-bundled PS3 also with 802.11N.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/500gb-ps3-move-bundles-coming

Let's see if Nintendo upgrades to 802.11n as well...

Last edited by Lou on 14-Jun-2010 at 08:15 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 14-Jun-2010 at 08:08 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 14-Jun-2010 at 08:07 PM.

@BrianK

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Kinect video from E3

Sorry I'm not impressed. Only that dancing game looks mildly fun to me, but with the lack of accuracy combined with lag it's IMO not interesting beyond 'make believe', just like pretending with some Wii-mote games.

You call that something like minority report and not what I showed you? (dismissing it because it doesn't use a holographic display, so where is that holographic display in that video if we want to take equal measures?)

Actually what you are so impressed with has been around since many years ago (but was never really a popular feature amongst early adopters).

@Lou

Like I speculated some time ago the next Halo will not use that weird method for producing HDR lighting, so they can uppen the rendering resolution and add some anti-aliasing. Afterwards I read comments which seems to suggest I was correct on that speculation, assets may be polished up as well but I don't expect miracles. Halo will probably remain a cartoony game.

Regarding that new XBox 360 model, built-in WiFi IMO is a good addition (I assume it still includes an ethernet port).

The new PS3 models are rumoured to include a newer (much faster) operating Wi-Fi chip.

@MikeB

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PS3 production costs have dropped dramatically and software sales are up dramatically (so much so that now PS3 software sold far more than XBox 360 software last year despite a 4.47 million hardware lead for the XBox 360 at the time),

And yet the 360 profited for that year and the PS3 did not. This is another good example of the hole Sony has dug. The PS3 may have been #2 for software sales. In order to do that it had to take losses putting itself financially in the #3 spot. OUCH! Remember back when I said Microsoft did some damage to Sony's financials? Another great example. Thank you.

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You call that something like minority report and not what I showed you?

The comparison is fairly easy. Wand is a controller. In Minority Report there was no controller to hold. It was a glove used to detect finger movements. Kinect there is no controller.

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dismissing it because it doesn't use a holographic display,

Maybe Sony will announce a humor dector for PS3 fanbois at E3.


@Lou
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Looks like the next HALO will have better graphics:

I was one of the 2.7Million 'beta' testers for Halo:Reach. The graphics are markedably better than Halo3. The gaming engine and graphic engine was redesigned for the console. A popular game is about to get even more so IMO.

360 Slim looks to be a fairly good deal. Undoubtably this is the Vallhalla motherboard. Combining 2 chips onto 1 will give Microsoft further power to cut console pricing without taking Entertainment profits. That's good. A reserve now means more put into Gen 8.

Time for some Nintendo predictions since there have been no real bombshells by MS and nothing much more is expected of Sony either...:

These are my *predictions*:

Legend of Zelda to be both FPSand 3rd person at times. May use Vitality Sensor for more powerful magic attacks.

A 3rd party publisher may release and EyeToy-like peripheral.

New WiiMote has built-in WiiMotion Plus and a better speaker.

802.11N

More built-in Flashram, perhaps 16GB and removing the current SD slot to twart piracy...

No Wii successor announced. No Wii HD model.

More stuff to do with the Vitality Sensor that you can't think of, such as meditation, perhaps a lie detector game.

Last edited by Lou on 14-Jun-2010 at 08:39 PM.

@BrianK

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The comparison is fairly easy. Wand is a controller. In Minority Report there was no controller to hold. It was a glove used to detect finger movements. Kinect there is no controller.

But we didn't even see accurate finger recognition in that video, just waving gestures like already done in the distant past with simpler integrated TV/camera hardware. That Kinect camera is pretty huge, I wonder how much it will cost, anything above $99 I predict major fail.

@MikeB
...Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: The comparison is fairly easy. Wand is a controller. In Minority Report there was no controller to hold. It was a glove used to detect finger movements. Kinect there is no controller. But we didn't even see accurate finger recognition in that video, just waving gestures like already done in the distant past with simpler integrated TV/camera hardware. That Kinect camera is pretty huge, I wonder how much it will cost, anything above $99 I predict major fail.

No I don't think Kinect (I hate that name) is going to detect fine motion without the *hand* being much closer to the camera(s).

As for size, it's only 1.6x larger than a 360 controller.



I see an ethernet port on the back.


As for price of Kinect, I think they are waiting to see MOVE's price.

Last edited by Lou on 14-Jun-2010 at 09:24 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 14-Jun-2010 at 09:21 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 14-Jun-2010 at 08:43 PM.

@Lou

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As for price of Kinect, I think they are waiting to see MOVE's price.

The Kinect is goaling for the casual gamer. We'll see how compelling Microsoft makes the sales pitch and the price. Out of the 15 games announced there's about a half dozen I might be interested in trying. Personally, if it's a fair price I'll get it for the Minor Report like controls.

I was disappointed to see nothing about Hulu on the 360. 3500 ESPN games at no additional charge and in HD if one's a Gold Member is fairly compelling for many homes. Looking at the price of a Gold Membership that's a lower cost option than Cable or Satellite.

Might as well start the next series of questions. What will Christmas bring? All 3 consoles bundle. I expect Microsoft and Sony to bundle their new controller with their console as they try to steal the Wii's casual gamer. (EDIT:) Gamestop is rumored to have leaked the bundled price of the Kinect+Stealthbox for $100 more than the Stealthbox alone.

Last edited by BrianK on 14-Jun-2010 at 10:09 PM.

@BrianK

Woot @ http://kotaku.com/5563389/rumor-goldeneye-coming-back-exclusively-for-the-wii

@BrianK



Valhalla confirmed!

Last edited by Lou on 15-Jun-2010 at 12:28 AM.

@Lou

Goldeneye was a great game. I hope the sequel is excellent as well. I don't have a Wii but I can go to the neighbor's and use it so...

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Valhalla confirmed!

Saw that Thank you. (Edit: Snipped body it was to wordy) Recap: The new 360 Stealthbox, as some are calling it, has 'fixed' many of the complaints. There are two things left. One is the much smaller brick is still external to the console. The other is no Blu-Ray. Microsoft told us there would be no Blu-Ray so it's not unexpected. Plus I can't imagine Microsoft is ready to encourage a technology that gives money to it's competition, aka Sony. Nor do I suspect they want to add Java to the Xbox environment.

Last edited by BrianK on 15-Jun-2010 at 05:04 AM.

@BrianK

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has 'fixed' many of the complaints. There are two things left. One is the much smaller brick is still external to the console. The other is no Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray IMO is a criticial factor, not really for movie playback but for advancing blockbuster gaming. It would also be benefical technically if all XBox 360 models would come with a default harddrive. Multi-plaform gaming could then achieve so much more (thus would also benefit PS3 gaming).

This model being more quiet and including built-in Wi-Fi, like the earlier inclusion of a HDMI port I think are stuff which should have been there from the start. Hopefully hardware failures and disc scratching issues will from now on become a thing of the past (not really as not everyone will upgrade to this model).

One of the most critical complaints you seem to be forgetting is providing no free basic online gaming. For example Microsoft highlighted Gears of War, Halo and Call of Duty franchices as their most popular XBox titles, 1 thing all these games have in common is that without online gameplay they provide limited value as their single player campaigns are very short.

So you (as well as your gaming friends!) paying extra to play online is a valid for many critical complaint (at least here in my country most seem to be reluctant to pay Microsoft tax for sometsomething which should in our opinion be free like everywhere else).

@MikeB

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This model being more quiet and including built-in Wi-Fi, like the earlier inclusion of a HDMI port I think are stuff which should have been there from the start.

You don't understand the big picture Mike. This would have caused the console to be $600, had a slow sales rate, cost Microsoft $6 billions in cash, and likely would have forced a price drop sooner for one of the consoles that succcessfully held it's launch price for a long time.

On a serious note how quickly we forget the state of the Technology. This was designed in 2005 and launced in 2006. HDMI was rare. The common HD connections were VGA and DVI. The 360 does VGA. The 360 has components which carry analog HD signals. Once the 360 received HDMI the quality was tested. The result was no difference in output for the console. The only real value here to the 360 is 1 cable instead of 2. Meh!

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One of the most critical complaints you seem to be forgetting is providing no free basic online gaming

Actually I see Microsoft addressed this in a slightly different fashion. For your Gold Membership one now gets 3500 sporting events for free, most in HD. I paid a bit more than $30 for my last 13 month subscription. With a NetFlix account ($10/month) + Gold account ($3/month) that's a great deal of content and more cost effective than Satellite or Cable.

Last edited by BrianK on 15-Jun-2010 at 12:34 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 15-Jun-2010 at 12:18 PM.

@BrianK

I used NetFlix on the Wii last night. It's a better interface than the PC. No jaggies either. It looked like a normal DVD video.

@Lou

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I used NetFlix on the Wii last night. It's a better interface than the PC

I haven't seen the Wii's interface. I assume it's similar to the 360 one. I do like those better than the PC. The one problem is there is no search function on the consoles. This is fixed for the 360.

@BrianK

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This would have caused the console to be $600, had a slow sales rate, cost Microsoft $6 billions in cash

Not really, I think it's better to invest into consumer's hardware. They could have not rushed the XBox 360 onto the market and make it sturdy, that could have saved Microsoft 2 billion USD.

The 600 dollar version of the PS3 has a lot of extras and is more powerful compared to the highest specced 360s.

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Actually I see Microsoft addressed this in a slightly different fashion. For your Gold Membership one now gets 3500 sporting events for free, most in HD

So not addressed at all.

And ESPN is of limited value outside of the US (although I don't know the exact details on that). If it included worldwide Fifa's World Cup this could have been a nice bullet point.

BTW, Kinect is said to launch at 149 USD...

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: This would have caused the console to be $600, had a slow sales rate, cost Microsoft $6 billions in cash Not really, I think it's better to invest into consumer's hardware. They could have not rushed the XBox 360 onto the market and make it sturdy, that could have saved Microsoft 2 billion USD. The 600 dollar version of the PS3 has a lot of extras and is more powerful compared to the highest specced 360s. Quote: Actually I see Microsoft addressed this in a slightly different fashion. For your Gold Membership one now gets 3500 sporting events for free, most in HD So not addressed at all. And ESPN is of limited value outside of the US (although I don't know the exact details on that). If it included worldwide Fifa's World Cup this could have been a nice bullet point. BTW, Kinect is said to launch at 149 USD...

Old Xbox models are no longer being made. They are getting discounted now.
Atleast MS made their 'slim' without dropping features...and actually ADDED features (802.11N & wireless controllers). That's another bullet point in MS' favor over Sony's methods of cost-reducing...

I look forward to Nintendo's press conference today...and Sony's later.