@wegster

Quote:

I still don't think Resistance was the 'great' game you made it out to be, but it was fun, and I'm sad it was stolen along with my first PS3. I may yet pick up a used copy of Resistance to replace it, and will likely be getting Resistance 2.

How did that happen?

BTW Resistance 1 Gameplay to refresh your memory:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cDryfPucBaw

Some very nice touches, like bodies piling up, good weather effects, good physics and well done details like glass breaking in the video below:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lt-V6IaoZXA

A great launch title! If you think I am nuts like you often seem to want to portray me as some sort of blind fanboy, there's a huge fanbase and here an IGN video review:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yDSSbb7WbhI

Some quotes:
"yes it really is a killer app!"
"Everything about Resistance from start to finish screams must play!"

They state: Strong AI, great weapons, cool backstory, great gameplay especially great contols, never experienced a slowdown from start to fish and fantastic solid multiplayer. Points I can easily relate to, IMO and in the opinion of many others this makes Resistance: Fall of Man a great game!

Really looking foward to Resistance 2 and I am really interested in experiencing the huge technology leap they have achieved with their game engine. Resistance 1 just like Motorstorm 1, despite their impressiveness only used about 15% of available SPU power and there's even a lot of room for optimisations in addition).

Last edited by MikeB on 13-Apr-2008 at 08:50 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 13-Apr-2008 at 08:06 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster Quote: Ahh, right..I forgot about KillZone 2. That I will be buying, but it's release is much later, isn't it? Rumoured release date for Killzone 2 is September and Resistance 2 November. Quote: Ok, it's SO time to upgrade that CRT, Mike! What was that?

A response to the fact you own a 17" CRT or LCD

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@MikeB

I really didn't need a Resistance refresher. I like the game, I simply don't agree with anyone portraying it as the best game ever, which your often exaggerated or enthusiastic posts seem to do, often enough.

I'm looking forward to Resistance 2, and will buy it, but I won't be buying Resistance 1 again, at least not at full price. If I come across it used for < $30, I'll get it again.

To answer RE: 'how did that happen?' I had my motorcycle, PS3 and some other stuff robbed from my house while I was at a funeral, some time back. Very nice. :-/

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@wegster

Quote:

A response to the fact you own a 17" CRT or LCD

It's a very nice Dell LCD and it suits my desk well, I prefer this size for document writing and web browsing (the more square form factor works for this IMO vs widescreen monitors) due to the distance I am sitting from my desk. I won't be getting a bigger monitor and the big screens are usually still much smaller than the average widescreen HDTV (for entertainment purposes like watching Blu-Ray movies and games IMO widescreen suits very well).

Thanks for the advise, but no thanks. I don't consider myself a PC gamer anymore, maybe just maybe, if for example a new Civilization game can only be played well enough on a PC.

@wegster

Quote:

I really didn't need a Resistance refresher. I like the game, I simply don't agree with anyone portraying it as the best game ever, which your often exaggerated or enthusiastic posts seem to do, often enough.

You will have to quote me on that one, I do think and thought it was one of the best FPS games around. The amount of activity going on simultaneously without dropping a single frame was quite impressive, but they went even further with Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction another game we don't agree on. IMO R&C: Tools of Destruction is a great game just like Uncharted, both are regarded as technically the most impressive console games currently available.

Insomniac regarding R&C: Tools of Destruction:

"We are continuing to build our Insomniac Engine and have made many improvements to it since Resistance: Fall of Man. The one huge focus for us has been moving more of our processes over to the SPUs on the CELL processor. This has allowed us to get our physics and effects systems running roughly four times faster than it did in Resistance at nearly double the framerate, which is something you can see in weapons like the Tornado Launcher."

@MikeB

Quote:

Thanks for the advise, but no thanks. I don't consider myself a PC gamer anymore, maybe just maybe, if for example a new Civilization game can only be played well enough on a PC.

Civilization Revolution was built from the ground up for the 360/PS3. There is not going to be a PC version. Looks to be interesting so far.

@MikeB

Quote:

You will have to quote me on that one, I do think and thought it was one of the best FPS games around. The amount of activity going on simultaneously without dropping a single frame was quite impressive, but they went even further with Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction another game we don't agree on. IMO R&C: Tools of Destruction is a great game just like Uncharted, both are regarded as technically the most impressive console games currently available.

I really wasn't asking you to launch in to another ad campaign. Really, you can let others have their own opinions; it's ok.

You summed it up yourself right there, or for yet another example where Mike derails and won't let others to their opinions examples:
link to item

A majority of that thread went on for several pages because you were unable to leave others opinions at that.

Really, I'm trying to remain civil here, but there are times when you really do not have to respond with yet another 'ad,' and just leave it alone.

Last edited by _Steve_ on 17-Apr-2008 at 06:52 PM.
Last edited by wegster on 14-Apr-2008 at 03:44 AM.

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@MikeB
Quote:

The amount of activity going on simultaneously without dropping a single frame was quite impressive,

Resistance definitely had some intelligent designers/programmers. Instead of going for the gold - 1080p @ 60fps and subsequently dropping frame rates during lots of activity they locked in 30fps and 720p. Clearly they choose the lesser to give users a more consistent experience. They claim to be doing better with Resistance2 so hopefully they can reach that 1080p @ 60fps gold ring.

@wegster

Why not actually read that and other threads? I clearly accept other people's opinions nomatter if I agree with them or not. Providing counter view and information does not equal not accepting people's opinions.

Sadly you and a few others could not accept my views and opinions, so resorted to personal cheapshots, persona ridiculing and sometimes even namecalling you failed to react on as a moderator, this all instead of providing arguments.

Reading back, regarding the bulk of disagreements I was actually correct and those who resorting to insult were wrong on the bulk of accounts.

Gran Turismo 5 developer mentions coming to another platform and possibility of PCs also.

@MikeB

Quote:

Why not actually read that and other threads? I clearly accept other people's opinions nomatter if I agree with them or not. Providing counter view and information does not equal not accepting people's opinions.

Jumping in every time with the same regurgitation of what you have already stated, every time someone posts a differing opinion, or launching into what reads as a Sony wannabe ad campaign, adds little. You've expressed your opinions, people choose if they agree or not. Again, sometimes, it's best to let it lie and simply agree to disagree, versus spamming a thread with the same material over and over ad nauseam.

Regardless of your personal opinion on 'right and wrong', which I'm simply ignoring, I can assure you, you have no desire to once again start a discussion of moderation in public. If you wish to open that particular discussion yet again, you know the rules - PM, either myself, or to DaveyD or Steve.

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@wegster

I think anyone with a normal IQ can see why I posted a few links and statements with regard to Resistance. You out of the blue stated your repetitive: "I still don't think Resistance was the 'great' game you made it out to be" once again.

Again demonstrating you cannot accept my opinion on this game. Clearly IGN reviewers think it's a "killer app" and even "screams must play". I think they are probably the most widely respected online games website, so it's not strange that I quote them in support of my views in reply to any cheapshots on your part.

Last edited by MikeB on 16-Apr-2008 at 08:00 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

There is no discussion here, it's just the usual - I make a comment about Sony you don't like and you defend them like your grandfather started the company by putting words in my mouth and having quasi-delusional aspirations for PS3 world domination.

Now Lou, you better back up your claims, or be prepared for another report.

It is a fact you make, in your opinion, "funny" remarks about Sony and the PS3, but they are just lies or claims you can't back up.

When I correct you, you go into "berserk" mode, exaggerate my post and start attacking it from there. You, "my friend", better back up your claim about quasi-delusional aspirations for PS3 world dominations. Yes, actually start reading my posts and come back with a quote that supports your claim.

Quote:

Why are you bringing the 360 into this? Actually, the word you used in post #423 was "lame". Just as you say I said you called all developers lazy, you are saying that I am saying 3D games are not possible on the PS3. LOL. Do you actually know what the phrase "putting words into someone's mouth means. Are you blind? Can you read? I said it depends on the complexity of the game.

I used Gears of War, because it would lower the chance you started nitpicking about "60fps most of the time".

Now you better back up your claim I tried to point out you were saying "3D games are not possible on the PS3".

The whole thing that started this was your tirade that developers should focus on fluid 720p instead of stuttering 1080p. There was no caveat at that time about the complexity of the game. That statement from you came much later.

Quote:

You're grasping at straws with is "arguement" attempting to win...win what? You just like to pester me with your PS3-fanboyism. Meanwhile I secretly laugh at it and throw you another bone to chew on and resume my internal laughter. Let's see who can find the bone in this post...

In my world this is called trolling. At least you admit you never wanted a sensible discussion with me. Although I have to admit I had that suspicion already a long time.

@jiyong

Quote:

jiyong wrote: @Lou Quote: There is no discussion here, it's just the usual - I make a comment about Sony you don't like and you defend them like your grandfather started the company by putting words in my mouth and having quasi-delusional aspirations for PS3 world domination. Now Lou, you better back up your claims, or be prepared for another report. It is a fact you make, in your opinion, "funny" remarks about Sony and the PS3, but they are just lies or claims you can't back up. When I correct you, you go into "berserk" mode, exaggerate my post and start attacking it from there. You, "my friend", better back up your claim about quasi-delusional aspirations for PS3 world dominations. Yes, actually start reading my posts and come back with a quote that supports your claim.

What are my "claims"? These claims are where you continue to put words in my mouth.

Quote:

Quote: Why are you bringing the 360 into this? Actually, the word you used in post #423 was "lame". Just as you say I said you called all developers lazy, you are saying that I am saying 3D games are not possible on the PS3. LOL. Do you actually know what the phrase "putting words into someone's mouth means. Are you blind? Can you read? I said it depends on the complexity of the game. I used Gears of War, because it would lower the chance you started nitpicking about "60fps most of the time".

Any game on any system that normally runs at a cerain speed, then slows down, ruins immersion. It ruins the gameplay. For instance, it I am running along and have to jump and execute a manuver in mid air, but then the framerate drops and it seems gravity is halved and I execute my manuever at the same speed but the machine is only responding to 1/2 my inputs, then there is an issue. However, if the frame-rated is dropped manually by the game engine from 60 to 30, however it still renders everything "in time", I probably wouldn't notice at all.

So my point about rock solid 720p games has everything to do with smoothness and flow and nothing to do with capability. The system is irrevalent, but ofcourse you desired to go on a tirade about how infinity is possible behind the power of the PS3 and it's "lame" developer's faults, meanwhile you've developed nothing yourself to understand why some things have limits...

Let me ask you a question. Are you a coder?

Quote:

Now you better back up your claim I tried to point out you were saying "3D games are not possible on the PS3".

Please quote me where I say this rather than continue your propaganda...

Quote:

The whole thing that started this was your tirade that developers should focus on fluid 720p instead of stuttering 1080p. There was no caveat at that time about the complexity of the game. That statement from you came much later.

This "caveat" is implied. Again, you continue to show a lack of ability to read into things. That's your short-coming, not mine. Do you think I believe whether a game is fluid in 1080p or not has soley to do with the potential max display capability of the gpu?

Quote:

Quote: You're grasping at straws with is "arguement" attempting to win...win what? You just like to pester me with your PS3-fanboyism. Meanwhile I secretly laugh at it and throw you another bone to chew on and resume my internal laughter. Let's see who can find the bone in this post... In my world this is called trolling. At least you admit you never wanted a sensible discussion with me. Although I have to admit I had that suspicion already a long time.

All your "discussions" become abrasive. Just look at your prior one with BrianK. You just don't understand some things that are written and go into a battle mode to win something that can't be won. Your behavior is consistenly combative and I haven't reported you...or anyone else ever...because you really don't matter to me in the grand scheme of things in life. Feel free to go crying to a moderator. Your opinion of me is as important to me as the current price of tea in China.

Last edited by Lou on 17-Apr-2008 at 12:33 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 17-Apr-2008 at 12:26 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster I think anyone with a normal IQ can see why I posted a few links and statements with regard to Resistance. You out of the blue stated your repetitive: "I still don't think Resistance was the 'great' game you made it out to be" once again. Again demonstrating you cannot accept my opinion on this game. Clearly IGN reviewers think it's a "killer app" and even "screams must play". I think they are probably the most widely respected online games website, so it's not strange that I quote them in support of my views in reply to any cheapshots on your part.

Actually I found Resistance so heavily scripted that I walked through the first 1/3 of the game in a 2 hours despite the fact that I hate dual-analog controls.

I would move forward, then an ambush would happen and I would die.
Respawn.
Lob a grenade to where the ambush would appear.
Move forward.
Stop
Ambush appears.
Grenade explodes.
Maybe kill one enemy that just happened to be out of the blast radius.
Move forward to next area.

With games like that, I'd much rather wait for the movie.

@jiyong / Lou

Both of you please keep it civil. If you are going to start making things personal take it into PM, but keep it out of the forums.

If you are going to post "facts", back them up with evidence (links) rather than basing things on potentially a gut feeling of what is going on. I have seen in the past threads whereby someone claims that this particular thing is running at 60fps on this system, and only 30fps on that system simply because "it feels like it is when I saw it", rather than a definitive test measuring the frame rate precisely to show that this is the case.

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@MikeB

Shane Kim on the Xbox360
Thought you might like this.

My favorite question and answer
"Any ideas what I should do with my HD DVD add on besides stare at it with deep regret and a feeling of disgust?...
...It also is a terrific DVD player and it allows you to have game discs and movie discs, whether HD DVD or DVD, within the console at one time. The HD DVD player also adds two additional USB ports to your console. "
Terrific? Nah but good enough. Oh yeah $200 for 2 USB ports that's a worthwhile investment.

@BrianK

Is the playback quality of the HD DVD player any better than with the console can playback itself? Via some onboard chip or something? I think the horrible scores in DVD tests resulted from the state of the OS. I speculate they probably cannot improve this functionality as the 360 only has 16 MB flash memory for the firmware and there's simply no more room left.

The PS3 has 256 MB flash memory with AFAIK most of this memory still unused, at least for a past firmware version accoding to one developer. Meanwhile more features have been added (most recently DTS HD Master audio and DTS HD High Resolution Audio. support), but the OS also has been optimised considerably, for instance reducing the load on main memory.

Anyway they even claimed they didn't really take HD DVD so seriously when asked if they backed the wrong horse. I don't think that's nice towards consumers if that's really the case. Also more interesting PR from Microsoft for Europe:

Quote:

The momentum behind Xbox 360 continues to grow, as Microsoft today announced that European sales have more than doubled in the wake of recent adjustments of the estimated retail price (ERP), solidifying its leadership position as the number one next-generation console in Europe and significantly broadening the console’s audience.

Quote:

Xbox 360 continues to enjoy the highest software attach rate of any game console in Europe with more than 7.0 games sold per console (PS3: 3.8; Wii 3.5) after 27 months on the market.

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=26965

LOL, really funny. They are starting to act like clowns. Also for every NPD report in 2008 they claim hardware shortages are the reason for being outsold, while in fact people are reporting 360s in stock at nearly all US retailers....

Anyway IMO:

The 360's ass is being kicked in Europe by both Wii and PS3. Both in terms of hardware and software sales. No doubt about that and this trend continued despite the price cut, there's a lot of data on this. Doubling sales is not enough considering Sony announced the PS3 outsold the 360 3 to 1 for Europe just before the pricecut. Chart Track confirmed the PS3 is still outselling the 360 for the UK (the platform's strongest market within Europe)

IMO the Wii attach rate is lower as Nintendo is trying to suit both new type of gamers and its Nintendo fanbase. Some games sell much better amongst the traditional Nintendo fanbase other games sell better amongst the newly found casual market. And then you have the problem of some shovelware titles and multi-platform games usually being subpar compared to other new gen versions.

The 360 has seen sequels to nearly all its best selling XBox games and has relatively more FPS/shooter fans, thus this IMO leads towards a relatively high attach rate for shooters like COD4, Halo, Gears, etc.

The PS3 attach rate will improve when the big PS2 sequels are released, Sony so far mainly experimented with new franchices. For example GTA attach rates will probably be better for the PS3.

Also I don't think it's really surprising a person who may have owned a console for 2.5 years (360 European launch) bought more games for this console than someone who owned a console for less than 1 year and 1 month (PS3 European launch).

If Microsoft discontinued European hardware shipments altogether while software is still available the attachment ratio per console would improve much further . So if that's crucial to them that may be the way for them to go! Enjoying many new users will drop down their average.

@MikeB

Quote:

Is the playback quality of the HD DVD player any better than with the console can playback itself? Via some onboard chip or something? I think the horrible scores in DVD tests resulted from the state of the OS.

The HD DVD did come out with newer video drivers and improved the state of the 360 DVD playback also. Also, I think last fall a major update to DVD/HD DVD was released. I'm not saying the DVD is bad but it's not as great as MIcrosoft would like us to believe. I prefer my Marantz stand alone to either console, it's quieter.

Quote:

Also for every NPD report in 2008 they claim hardware shortages are the reason for being outsold, while in fact people are reporting 360s in stock at nearly all US retailers....

Early this year (Jan/Feb) there were 360 shortages around here. I don't see a stock level up to PS3 levels but they are available.

I too don't believe MIcrosoft will be #1. But, they will indeed have a better showing then last gen. The 360 is making Microsoft $$ and that's what is important to a business. They've already stepped up and stated they will make a 3rd console.

Last edited by BrianK on 17-Apr-2008 at 07:20 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Is the playback quality of the HD DVD player any better than with the console can playback itself? Via some onboard chip or something? I think the horrible scores in DVD tests resulted from the state of the OS. I speculate they probably cannot improve this functionality as the 360 only has 16 MB flash memory for the firmware and there's simply no more room left

I think we covered this a bit before.

The 360 does get bad quality reviews when tested with the HQV test disc, as does the HD DVD drive. The fall 07 update moved the player up from 20 to 40 out of 130. However, the HQV test disc has jaggies in it and fails to flag the jaggies. The unflagged content doesn't trigger the 360 deinterlacer. Store purchased movies have flagging on the CD encoding which indicates jaggies. When used with these discs the 360 performs well and does outperform some CD Players. Net result -- bad score in tests yet actual pretty good output when used with your favorite store purchased DVD.