@BrianK
BrianK wrote:
Quote:

@Lou Quote: I can buy a USB camera for my PC, but most laptop come with one built-in these days, the same will be true of Natal and a new Xbox 360 model. Having the camera on a USB allows users to place it wherever it best suits them. Having to place a whole console in some AV setups would be impossible. I'm betting Natal can be had on a USB cord.

Well if you read through, the Valhalla chipset is supposed to shrink the console so that it + Natal is about the size of the current console...

Natal-equipped 360 SKU confirmed!
http://www.edge-online.com/news/natal-equipped-xbox-360-confirmed-%E2%80%93-report

Interesting article:
http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/generation-when

Some speculation on WiiHD matching the 360/PS3 in power.

Now let me speculate on what this would take:

The Wii has an ARM processor that boots up the Wii and hands the Wii's extra functionality over the GC hardware. This ARM chip is a bit weak however, it can run code separately from the Wii's PPC. We know the Wii's main cpu is a PPC 740CL(based) and we know Hollywood is just Flipper running at 487Mhz with the old GC's 24MB of T1-SRAM on-die.

For a WiiHD, Hollywood needs to have it's internal framebuffer expanded and registers added to actually change resolutions about 480p as this is fixed rigjt now. It's already got an excellent pixel fill-rate, but clocking the gpu up to 650Mhz (+33%) won't hurt as it's already 3x faster than the GC's gpu...let's make it 4x. Frame+texture+Z ram needs to be bumped up to 6 or 8MB from the current 3.1MB. Hopefully they can also squeeze in 256MB of 1T-SRAM as well but I could see them trying to get away with only 48MB.

On the PPC side, it will need to go up to 975Mhz and possibly even be dual-cored. Again a 33% increase not taking into account a second core.

As for the ARM cpu, this is where they can make some big improvements to allow true dual but separate processing to free up alot of processing on the PPC side. With a beefier ARM with more memory dedicated to it, the ARM could handle all the WiiSpeak and W/LAN code freeing the PPC to handle bigger more complex games.

I would also like to see the 64MB of GDDR2 ram be bumped to GDDR3 and 256MB of it.

The wireless unit could be upgraded to support 802.11n.
Internal flash ram could be changed to a 16GB SSD.

This would make for a fine WiiHD console.

For good measure why not throw in an HD DVD drive for bigger games that won't fit on 1 dual-layered DVD...though this doesn't seem to be hurting the 360 much. HD DVD should be a cheap-enough commodity and why pay Sony roalties I say. It doesn't even have to offer HD DVD movie playback, though I know the homebrew community would enable it just like they do now with DVD playback.

I should note that the ARM cpu (called Starlet by the homebrew community) resides inside Hollywood. It would definitely need an internal ram upgrade. As Hollywood needs to be redesigned for HD anyway, why now upgrade Starlet as well.

Last edited by Lou on 19-Jun-2009 at 04:49 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 19-Jun-2009 at 04:46 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Natal-equipped 360 SKU confirmed!

Seems some interpreted this as a new 360... Major Nelson had this to say ---
"A few people have emailed me regarding something Steve Ballmer said earlier today about a new Xbox coming in 2010. As the Xbox team stated at E3 two weeks ago, we are not even halfway through the current console generation lifecycle and believe Xbox 360 will be the entertainment center in the home for long into the next decade. Project Natal will be an important part of this platform, but we have not confirmed a launch date at this time."

Here's my current Microsoft guess.... Xbox Elite 2010: built in Natal, CPU/GPU likely without new features, larger HD, and Blu-Ray included. If Microsoft expects another 5 years for the console might as well put the Blu-Ray in now.


In gaming related news...
*Nvidia President claimes 20Teraflops per video card by 2015.
*Intel confirmed H1 2010 is the ship date for Larrabee.
* 2010 also brings the more paralleled GT300 and R800.


Quote:

Some speculation on WiiHD matching the 360/PS3 in power.

I think completely do able at the same price point. God know Nintendo has the profits. Throw a Blu-Ray player in there and Sony would have no choice but a 50% (okay maybe not that high) PS3 price cut. Microsoft would have to make a Blu-Ray option.

Last edited by BrianK on 19-Jun-2009 at 06:41 PM.

@Lou

ATI could offer thier value end Radeon HDs.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Lou ATI could offer thier value end Radeon HDs.

But that would break compatibility with Wii software. BC must be maintained or it's not a Wii...

With the current flock of Wii game engines able to match 360/PS3 in features, a little more clock speed and thoughput all around with some more memory to play with and I think they are good.

With a beefier Starlet and multi-cored Broadway, I think the Wii can get close enough to the processing power of the 360/PS3 with fewer bottlenecks.

Recall that on unoptimized code that a single PPE core of the 360 and the PS3's PPE is only about twice as powerfull as the Wii. Give the Wii a 33% gain along with dual or quad core and a stronger ARM with more RAM and then the lines blur.

Even still, I think the WiiHD can be only 1/2 as powerful as the 360/PS3 and simply target 720p and avoid the pitfalls of 1080p and be just fine.

@Lou

That WiiHD you describe would be very nice to have!
But let's not forget to add USB2 and USBHDD native support that won't hurt WiiBrew!

BTW:
Activision menacing Sony "You drop the price of PS3 and I continue develop. You keep the price and I won't develop anymore for PS3"

http://nintendo-revolution.blogspot.com/2009/06/activision-blizzard-threatens-to-stop.html

Even More: Valve not happy to program for PS3:

http://buddhagaming.it/valve-la-ps3-e-difficile-da-programmare/

Bad times for Sony's console...

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God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@ErikBauer

Quote:

Activision menacing Sony "You drop the price of PS3 and I continue develop. You keep the price and I won't develop anymore for PS3"

Interesting. I wonder how much weight this might have in the console wars? And what happens if Sony cuts the price and it has a short lived sales increase? Then what would Activision do?

In semi- related news. We are now starting to see $99 Blu-Ray players. With some recent discounts one in my area was $79. Also recently I thought I saw South Korean companies saying they've been able to trim $50 out of their manufacture costs for BR. The Wii + seperate BR is clearly cheaper than the PS3. IMO the BR no longer holds a markup value for the PS3.

@BrianK

Didn't know BR player became this cheap!
Not good times for PS3 indeed...

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@Lou

In vector math, it should be around 4 times i.e. 64bit SIMD @ 729 Mhz vs 128bit SIMD @ 1.6Ghz(via L2 cache speed).

For BC, they could
1. inlcude software emulator
2. include legacy hardware (like early PS3 units).

Quote:

With a beefier Starlet and multi-cored Broadway, I think the Wii can get close enough to the processing power of the 360/PS3 with fewer bottlenecks.

One problem, Xbox 360 *is* efficient e.g. decoupled texture units, 64 threads front-end, tile render, unified shaders (vertex and pixel), memport, tessellation unit, global illumination unit, hardware AA, Early-Z cull and 'etc'.

Quote:

Recall that on unoptimized code that a single PPE core of the 360 and the PS3's PPE is only about twice as powerfull as the Wii. Give the Wii a 33% gain along with dual or quad core and a stronger ARM with more RAM and then the lines blur.

Xbox 360's main strength comes from ATI Xenos GpGPU.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2009 at 02:11 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2009 at 02:05 PM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Lou In vector math, it should be around 4 times i.e. 64bit SIMD @ 729 Mhz vs 128bit SIMD @ 1.6Ghz(via L2 cache speed). For BC, they could 1. inlcude software emulator 2. include legacy hardware (like early PS3 units). Quote: With a beefier Starlet and multi-cored Broadway, I think the Wii can get close enough to the processing power of the 360/PS3 with fewer bottlenecks. One problem, Xbox 360 *is* efficient e.g. decoupled texture units, 64 threads front-end, tile render, unified shaders (vertex and pixel), memport, tessellation unit, global illumination unit, hardware AA, Early-Z cull and 'etc'. Quote: Recall that on unoptimized code that a single PPE core of the 360 and the PS3's PPE is only about twice as powerfull as the Wii. Give the Wii a 33% gain along with dual or quad core and a stronger ARM with more RAM and then the lines blur. Xbox 360's main strength comes from ATI Xenos GpGPU.

I think that the new + legacy hardware factor would cost too much. Again, I point at how they "upgraded" the GB line, DS line and [cough] Gamecube(to Wii) line.

As for the strength of the 360, yes, but the Wii currently lacks memory and raw power to handle the more complex games on those platforms. The Wii's gpu has an excellent pixel-fill-rate so framerates aren't the issue, just features and like I said before, all the effects are possible on engines such as HVS Quantum3 engine. Some extra clock speed will help the gpu keep up as well as internal ram.

@Lou

http://kotaku.com/5297265/

Quote:

Adding the wand controller to games comes at a horsepower cost, Sony notes, writing that the "motion-tracking library has some SPU overhead and has an impact on memory as well, although these will be minimized."

Not suprising based on how their system works.
Microsoft's seems even more complex no matter how you slice it.
People are over-expecting on what kinds of games they will be playing with "motion" controls on the PS3/360.


Sees a Wii game from Ubisoft will ship with a camera:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/copycat-wii-titles-drown-before-existing-ubisoft

Last edited by Lou on 22-Jun-2009 at 05:43 PM.

@ErikBauer

Link US to see $50 Blu-Ray players in 2010.

Now if Blu-Rays sold for DVD prices we might see some migration. It appears that ~47% of US homes have at least 1 HDTV but 7% have Blu-Ray. Instead these users see an improvement with upscaling DVDs and high def content from cable, satellite, and over the air.

The Conduit released this week.

Here is an excellent video review. I must say, the graphics are excellent for a Wii game.

http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14248157/the-conduit/videos/conduit_vdr_062209.html

World of Warcraft's Azeroth gets architects' approval as #1 gaming world.
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/story.aspx?storyCode=5203736

Interesting NPD information:
Quote:

Resistance: Fall of Man is currently the only Sony published PS3 title to have topped one million sales in the US, according to NPD data. GameSetWatch reports that just six Sony published PS3 titles have surpassed 500,000 unit sales. LittleBigPlanet is the second highest selling, with sales between 750k and one million copies, while Resistance 2, Killzone 2, Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune and Gran Turismo 5: Prologue have each shifted 500k-750k. MotorStorm, Ratchet & Clank: Tools Of Destruction and Heavenly Sword have sold between 250k and 500k, while MotorStorm: Pacific Rift and Hot Shots Golf: Out Of Bound are yet to move 250k units. The sales figures were correct as of April 2009, and don’t include games sold as part of console bundles.

Now you can see why Activision Blizzard is threathening to drop Sony support.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article6531367.ece

Their only saving grace is the patented PS2 emulation software that may be coming however some speculate it will be used on downloadable PS2 games and not for actual discs.
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/06/29/sony-patents-emotion-engine-emulation-technology-for-cell-processors/

Last edited by Lou on 30-Jun-2009 at 03:59 PM.

Related likely to the next gen of consoles.

Direct 11 improvements in hardware: AMD/ATI Whitepaper

@BrianK

seems the gpu is becoming a cpu...

Looks like a hardcore console to me...

@Lou

gpGPU : General Purpose Graphics Processing Unit.

Are today's GPUs tied as tightly to the CPU as the Amiga? Are we getting back to the more "Denise" like systems?