@BrianK

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Wow the Gold standard of motion controllers

You FUDer! It's the Platinum standard nowadays!

DS vs 3DS . Seems to me the 3DS is about PS2 quality graphics, perhaps a bit better. We'll see how gameplay is. I think it's time to dump the DS.

@BrianK

I thought the PSP was about PS2 quality graphics! Surely the 3DS is comparable to a hypothetical PS2 console with 3D support with a touch screen to boot! Not really comparable!

Last edited by BigD on 18-Jun-2010 at 09:22 AM.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BigD

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Not really comparable!

Anything is comparable But I agree with you that it's not equivalent. The 3DS lets you play beyond the current handhelds clearly.

On a note on mobile gaming. Qualcomm has come out and said in the next few years they'll have PS3 quality gaming (Cell need not apply) in the mobile segement. WOW! Certainly the new 1.5Ghz dual core mobile processors will prove to be a powerful gaming platform. I'll be interested in seeing who uses those this fall (not Apple obviously) and how. WinPho7? Android? Both I see are possibilities.

@BrianK

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BrianK wrote: DS vs 3DS . Seems to me the 3DS is about PS2 quality graphics, perhaps a bit better. We'll see how gameplay is. I think it's time to dump the DS.

Well the 3DS does 800x240 and the PS2 did have some silly 720i mode for 1 game but intensive games limited it to 320x240.

the 800 horizontal is really 2x400 for the 3D effect. Still a baseline increase + 3D to ice it.

Truth be told, alot of games for PS2/Wii are rendered at 320x200 then stretched to 640x480.

The 3DS has (programmable)shaders...something the Wii doesn't (fixed-function).

@Lou

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PS2 did have some silly 720i mode for 1 game but intensive games limited it to 320x240

What? The best most intensive PS2 games actually support 480p and 567i!

Games including Ape Escape 3 (I bought this PS2 game for my PS3, looks sweet), God of War 1 & 2 (bought them as well, look even sweeter!) and there are many more (like Shadow of the Colossus, a good game which I hope will receive a HD makeover)!

Seriously, why do you need to say things you don't know?

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: PS2 did have some silly 720i mode for 1 game but intensive games limited it to 320x240 What? The best most intensive PS2 games actually support 480p and 567i! Games including Ape Escape 3 (I bought this PS2 game for my PS3, looks sweet), God of War 1 & 2 (bought them as well, look even sweeter!) and there are many more (like Shadow of the Colossus, a good game which I hope will receive a HD makeover)! Seriously, why do you need to say things you don't know?

Did you read the rest of what I wrote? Most games are rendered smaller and then stretched with filtering to 480p etc... This is common practice even before the 'HD' gen. For instance Halo3 is 640p but stretched, GTA4, etc... This is not news.

For instance, Resident Evil 4's target render was 240x192...or thereabouts. It's the filter/stretch that makes it look better.

Last edited by Lou on 18-Jun-2010 at 02:27 PM.

@Lou

Those games I mentioned above even all support 16:9 aspect ratio. God of War 2 is probably the most intensive PS2 game, it can even render in 576p on a PS3 (but does 480p/576i on a PS2 as well).

Sorry but those games do not render in 320x240.

@Lou

Golden Eye short review

@MikeB

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God of War 2 is probably the most intensive PS2 game, it can even render in 576p on a PS3 (but does 480p/576i on a PS2 as well).

Tim Moss - "It is actually 480p with FULL SIZE buffers, in other words 640x448 resolution" This was the hidden "HD" mode unlocked via Easter Egg. Running this slows the game down. Some may like a slower gameplay but prettier graphics. The native resolution is 420p.

Many PS2 games have a native resolution of 420i, especially older one's. Recall early on that the backwards compatibility in the PS3 had problems with some PS2 games. The reason was the 420i translation wasn't up to snuff. Sony fixed it with a patch.

GoWIII was at first claimed to be native 1080p by the developer. They have since cut back and it's still HD at 720p, a lesser resolution.

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What? The best most intensive PS2 games actually support 480p and 567i!

You knocked the 360 for supporting 1080p games but the game not actually being in that resolution. I believe you ripped on Halo for not truly being HD even if 'support' for HD output on the console exists. Just because 480p is supported that doesn't mean it's the game's native resolution. I think you know this.

Last edited by BrianK on 18-Jun-2010 at 02:58 PM.

@Lou

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PS2...ntensive games limited it to 320x240.

Just in case you wanted an example. One of the best selling PS2 games and games ever -- GTA: San Andreas was rendered in this resolution.

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @Lou Those games I mentioned above even all support 16:9 aspect ratio. God of War 2 is probably the most intensive PS2 game, it can even render in 576p on a PS3 (but does 480p/576i on a PS2 as well). Sorry but those games do not render in 320x240.

You aren't getting it.
GC RE4 had a frame of 240x180 (16x9)
On PS2 the frame was 320x200 (4:3)

The GC version was still better looking because of effects and polygon count.
Obviously the GC version ran in 480p(4:3) and had some top & bottom black bars to look widescreen on the 4:3 TV's of the time.

For the Wii version, they doubled the resolution of the GC version to 480x360 and strected it to fill a 480p widescreen. It's frame's render resolution was still below 720x480...but it still was stretched to fill the screen.

This happens all the time, you just don't notice it. You can figure it out by counting the platforms on an angled line drawn across the screen in the game.

MikeB, we all know GTA4 on the PS3 was rendered at something like 560p and stretched and the 360 version, 640p and stretched. What is the issue? Just because they output 1080p doesn't mean the source material is such.

The 360 has an upscaler in hardware. The PS3 has to do it's scaling in software. These are known things, but these things happen in older consoles too.

Yes, the PS2 is sending a 480p signal to your screen. This does not mean that the game engine renders a screen in 320x240 and then before it it sent to the TV that some software or hardware scales it. Yes, games can also render at the full 480p resolution, but even back then, that caused framerate issues depending on the game. This is not an insult to any system.

New 360 slim teardown .

There is 0 possibility of the Red Ring of Death now. Why? No Red LEDs.

Last edited by BrianK on 18-Jun-2010 at 03:06 PM.

@BrianK

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The native resolution is 420p.

Can you provide a source for that? In any case that's already a whole lot better for probably the PS2's most demanding game.

@BrianK

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There is 0 possibility of the Red Ring of Death now. Why? No Red LEDs.

What does this mean for 3 years RROD warranty? Last time Microsoft was pressured to re-include warranty on RRoD issues which were no longer giving RRoD but a failure report instead.

@Lou

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For instance, Resident Evil 4's target render was 240x192...or thereabouts. It's the filter/stretch that makes it look better.

I don't know the specifics for RE4, never owned that game. But I did read RE4 for the PS2 was quick & dirty port from the gamecube version. So nothing to judge the PS2 itself for, just the level of effort and/or competence can be judged if that's the case.

@MikeB

Not that much a Quick & Dirty port as the PS2 version had much more content that in the GC version hadn't.

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@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: For instance, Resident Evil 4's target render was 240x192...or thereabouts. It's the filter/stretch that makes it look better. I don't know the specifics for RE4, never owned that game. But I did read RE4 for the PS2 was quick & dirty port from the gamecube version. So nothing to judge the PS2 itself for, just the level of effort and/or competence can be judged if that's the case.

Somewhere in Neogaf, they listed the GC version as 240x180.
The PS2 version was rendered higher but the polygon count went down. Also they had to use FMV for the cut-scenes...not sure why...perhaps they felt that was an improvement.

They added extra levels and costumes to the PS2 version since it came out 10 months later.

The Wii version was the GC engine with the PS2's extra content but they upped the rendered frame to 480x360 + stretch to 480p + Wii controls. The multiplier on the stretch was higher horizontally to make the game widescreen on the GC+Wii.

It's truly one of the Wii's prettiest games...as it was on the GC.

Monster Hunter 3 on the Wii uses the full frame buffer. It's a very pretty game.
Red Steel 2 adds incredible full-screen AA and is to me a bit better graphically than MH3. It does not look 480p at all. It's also fast! And very responsive to WM+ controls.

If your wife still has a Wii, I would rent it (Red Steel 2) so that you get a feel for what Move games will be like. It includes WM+ to add to the Wii Remote.

Last edited by Lou on 18-Jun-2010 at 04:02 PM.

@ErikBauer

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ErikBauer wrote: @MikeB Not that much a Quick & Dirty port as the PS2 version had much more content that in the GC version hadn't.

It wasn't that much more.
The Wii version got all the content.

But I wouldn't call it a q&d port.

I think they felt PS2 audiences expected FMV so they gave them FMV for the cutscenes... Also, GC discs only held 1.4GB so FVM was out. The ingame engine was superb though so FMV was un-necessary.

@MikeB

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Can you provide a source for that? In any case that's already a whole lot better for probably the PS2's most demanding game.

I'll see what I can find. I'll gladly assume my memory is off and it's worse than that. We know already that the Tim Moss of SCE and GoW coder stated GoW2's Enhanced Defn mode is " 640x448 resolution"

Last edited by BrianK on 18-Jun-2010 at 04:00 PM.