@BrianK

http://247wallst.com/2009/08/27/microsoft-msft-makes-it-official-cuts-xbox-by-100/

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Hammer Thanks for the links. The Crytek 'low end' charge appears to be countered by PS3 fans by blaming Crytek for failing to properly optimize for the Cell. For certainly if the Cell was used more effectively the 'low end' video wouldn't be a problem.

I ussually post G84 vs G70/G71 benchmarks in these of type forums.

Examples of G70/G71 getting mauled by Geforce 8600 GT GDDR3(if we factor out 8 ROPs issues)

1. Geforce 8600GT (128bit wide 256MB VRAM) beats Geforce 7800GTX (256bit wide 512 MB VRAM) /7950GT (256bit wide 512 MB VRAM) in Mass Effect (Unreal Engine 3 uses deferred shading) Link1

2. Geforce 8600GT (128bit wide 256MB VRAM) beats Geforce 7800GTX (256bit wide 256MB VRAM) /7950GT (256bit wide 512 MB VRAM) in Assassins Creed v1.02 Link2

3. Geforce 8600GT (128bit wide 256MB VRAM) beats Geforce 7800GTX (256bit wide 256MB VRAM) /7950GT (256bit wide 512 MB VRAM) in Crysis 1.21. Geforce 8600 GT passes several G70/G71 based SLI. Link3

Complex shaders is not a friend for Geforce 7 series. If we factor in RSX's 8 ROPs and 128bit bus limits, it's no wonder RSX is a "low end" card relative to current generation PC GPUs.

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Aug-2009 at 11:22 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@BrianK

Quote:

@Hammer Thanks for the links. The Crytek 'low end' charge appears to be countered by PS3 fans by blaming Crytek for failing to properly optimize for the Cell. For certainly if the Cell was used more effectively the 'low end' video wouldn't be a problem. MikeB? No clue.

Crytek actually views the PS3 as a high tech system for their engine, the RSX of course as having been talked about in the past wasn't designed to overlap the Cell graphical strongpoints. The RSX by itself is a low spec (but still decent) GPU compared to other GPU cards which often cost more than the entire PS3 with all its extras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oAtTu0e02s

I must say it runs nicely for a cross platform gaming engine on the PS3, as expected. Character animations seem however weak compared to Killzone 2. Maybe if developers use this in PS3 exclusive settings it can measure itself with the PS3 exclusive engines once in usage.

@BrianK

Quote:

Will this rocket the PS3 to Superstardom as MikeB predicted? We'll see what Christmas brings.

It is at least nice to see my expectations regarding a slimline PS3 for 2009 a couple of years ago have now become reality.

Like I stated a few years ago, I now expect Sony to go full force with their marketing and I expect fiscal year 2009 to be a great year for the PS3 in closing.

Everything seems to be heading the right way for the PS3 this year, Final Fantasy XIII for Japan, Gran Turismo 5 release, other eye-popping new games like Uncharted 2 really showing off the technology and developer talent, great new features like VidZone, dynamic themes, very accurate motion tech demos, etc.

Last edited by MikeB on 29-Aug-2009 at 09:10 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Everything seems to be heading the right way for the PS3 this year,

Though I want to note that everything seemed to be heading the right way for the PS3 in all previous years too. Sales grew from spring to the Christmas season. While headed in the right direction the other 2 options headed in the right direction quicker.

I couldn't find the article I read yesterday. It was a summary of pre-orders in the US. Xbox leads the top few spots, the Wii is the next console. The PS3 had 1 title on the list and that title doesn't ship until after Christmas. Of course we have time for this to change.

GT5 will hit 12/29/09 so a last hurrah for the year. Though after the Christmas holiday. It'll be popular. I'd think it'd be more popular if they launched it 2 weeks earlier.

FF13 good for Japan. As a worldwide motivator, Spring 10. When the 360 version comes too.

I think 2009 may be better for Sony because the console should, in theory, lose them less money. Its unlikely to earn it this year.

Did you see some of the fat PS3 vs slim PS3 reviews? Slim PS3 good as it bitstreams the audio. Yeah the AV Receiver is the engine for the sound as it should be! The DVD output on the slim PS3 takes a hit. Blu-Ray is unchanged. Fan noise is up slightly in the slim PS3. Power usage is down a bit more than Sony stated.

Last edited by BrianK on 29-Aug-2009 at 02:23 PM.

PS3 Slim is still #1 on Amazon Bestsellers in Video Games List.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/ref=pd_dp_ts_vg_1


Xbox 360 Elite even at it's new $299 price #15, it was #13. The Elite does get you an added hardware feature not found on the Xbox 360 Pro. Elite has a black paint job.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 29-Aug-2009 at 02:38 PM.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: It is at least nice to see my expectations (...) become reality. Like I stated a few years ago (...)

This coming from someone whose expectations regarding PS3 sales and PS3 use for 3rd party OS have been proven wrong on so many occasions.

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@BrianK

Quote:

Though I want to note that everything seemed to be heading the right way for the PS3 in all previous years too.

Apart from no price drop since 2007 due to currency difficulties and weak economy, the PS3 performed fine indeed. Millions better than the 360 taking equal timeframes (this despite higher entry pricing and extra headstart/holiday seasons for the 360 taking such a measure).

Some past comments the last couple of years:

"So 2007 + 2008, about 20 million, I anticipate a slimline PS3 to launch somewhere in 2009."

"The Wii hype will dry down quite a bit, though still preferred by many young kids and females, after 2008 I expect HDTV penetration and higher expectations to considerably hurt worldwide sales, somewhere in 2009 I think HD DVD will have lost the format war and the Slimline PS3 really starts to take off."

"Personally I think all the extras (Wi-Fi, Home, PlayTV, PS3 games, webbrowser, large harddrive, MP3/MPG4/DivX/etc media support, etc) will likely still allow the PS3 to have an edge for a long period of time with regard to educated consumers. A future $299 priced slimline PS3 will likely do wonders."

""Lots of my past writings are available on the internet, want me to look them up for you? I also predicted in mid 2005 that it would be troublesome to get legacy engines onto the Cell's SPEs, so it's not all just rosey expectations neither.

"I expect the PS3 to continue to perform roughly on par with XBox 360 sales from the year before, until Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4 are all on the market (when that will be exactly may not even be known to the developers themselves."

"I always thought Japan would turn PS3 as soon as Metal Gear Solid 4 and / or Final Fantasy XIII hit the market"

I think it's roughly in line with expectations so far.

Last edited by MikeB on 29-Aug-2009 at 05:36 PM.

@polka.

Quote:

This coming from someone whose expectations regarding PS3 sales and PS3 use for 3rd party OS have been proven wrong on so many occasions.

Read above.

And with regard to "3rd party OS", what are you talking about?

@MikeB

Quote:

I think it's roughly in line with expectations so far.

A bit of cherry picking in there MikeB. I believe you were with me that PS3 would have a better 2008 showing than the 360, for one example. That didn't come to fruition. Also, I believe you stated several times that the 'play beyond' aspect means the 360 and Wii are doomed. This didn't come to fruition either. Well and the thought that this could be leveraged for a killer Amiga, won't happen.

But, I agree not all of your predictions have played out. Mine is the lower priced 360 and PS3 will make this Christmas difficult for the Wii. Next year with the new PS3 controller and Natal came out it'll be interesting to see what impact those have.

As for no price drops that's not quite right. It depends on how one slices the question. The launch price was announced in Japan and dropped just before the console launched. The console has changed it's configuration which changed pricing. If the later is not a price drop then the $299 price for another configuration change isn't one either.

Last edited by BrianK on 29-Aug-2009 at 06:25 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

A bit of cherry picking in there MikeB. I believe you were with me that PS3 would have a better 2008 showing than the 360, for one example.

We already talked about that before. I expected the official price to drop to 349 dollars in time for christmas 2008. Let me re-quote myself from the posting above:

"Apart from no price drop since 2007 due to currency difficulties and weak economy, the PS3 performed fine indeed."

This combined with Microsoft selling the 360 as low as 119 Euros with games and including taxes over the holiday season the odds turned against the PS3 last christmas.

Quote:

Also, I believe you stated several times that the 'play beyond' aspect means the 360 and Wii are doomed. This didn't come to fruition either.

Sorry, I'm not following you on this... No idea what you're talking about.

Quote:

Well and the thought that this could be leveraged for a killer Amiga, won't happen.

Hope isn't the same as expectation, I said having AmigaOS4 makes sense. World peace would IMO be great as well.

@MikeB

Quote:

Crytek actually views the PS3 as a high tech system for their engine

They didn't state it's was "high tech" i.e. the words was complex and challenging.
Are you implying PC (Games For Windows) and Xbox 360 are lower tech compared to the PS3?

To compete against Xbox 360, Cevat Yerli also states that they have tapped the CELL and abstracted the complexity from the developers. On PS3 vs Xbox 360, Crytek's statements are in-line with David Shippy's statements.

Quote:

I must say it runs nicely for a cross platform gaming engine on the PS3, as expected. Character animations seem however weak compared to Killzone 2. Maybe if developers use this in PS3 exclusive settings it can measure itself with the PS3 exclusive engines once in usage.

On character animations, this is a motion capture issue.

Last edited by Hammer on 29-Aug-2009 at 10:47 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 29-Aug-2009 at 10:32 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 29-Aug-2009 at 10:23 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@DiscreetFX

Amazon Bestsellers doesn't reflect the overall market.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

The Elite does get you an added hardware feature not found on the Xbox 360 Pro. Elite has a black paint job.

Black and more HDD space. It was good to remove the Pro and having only the Elite.

Though rumors of a 'Super Elite' are surfacing. 250GB drive, an extra controller, Forza 3, and the HDMI cable included for $100 more. If this is true a good deal is around the corner.

I expect all companies to be figuring out their 'special' editions for Christmas. For example, Australia is supposedly getting a Blu-Ray Pack that's 2 Sony movies and the PS3. Seems to me not focusing on games and marketing against much lower cost Blu-Ray players is a bit odd.

@Hammer

Quote:

They didn't state it's was "high tech" i.e. the words was complex and challenging.

The Amiga was also complex with its pre-emptive multi-tasking, 4096 colors, stereo audio, etc vs single tasking 2 color soundless Mac and PCs.

They say cryengine 3 is running at a "top level" on PS3. They implemented virtually everything which was in the orginal Crysis and added some more. Their gaming engine has received by far the most acclaim for its technical abilities, so IMO it's very good to see it running this well on a 299 dollar system.

Quote:

On character animations, this is a motion capture issue

Not only that, but also realtime ragdoll overlay when being shot in different body parts. Depending on the type of ammo/gun and position death sequences greatly differ in Killzone 2, awesome!

@all

Doing a quick search I was not able to find a full, in-context, transcript of what was said by Crytek.

Though there is some talk here between a few folks about it:

GameSpot thread

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

You don't need a transcript if you watch the video. But here's big discussion as well:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=53052&page=22

Gamespot is usually one of the worst places to get tech info from.

Last edited by MikeB on 30-Aug-2009 at 05:50 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @fairlanefastback You don't need a transcript if you watch the video. But here's big discussion as well:

No, but a transcript is something I can read on the run. The video I'll only be able to get to tonight or tomorrow.

Quote:

Gamespot is usually one of the worst places to get tech info from.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. As I mentioned its what came up when I googled the phrases you and hammer were mentioning.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 30-Aug-2009 at 06:41 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@MikeB

Quote:

And with regard to "3rd party OS", what are you talking about?

I think he's talking about your original justification for promoting the PS3 to Amiga users. It was going to be the natural platform for OS 4, except that you got it wrong and now Sony will not permit it on new machines.

Have I missed the post where you had the good grace to admit you were wrong about this issue?

By comparison, the prediction of a PS3 seems rather poor and not worthy of trawling through your own posts to find "told you so" self-quotes. The PS1 and PS2 both had slimline models, so Sony are only doing what they did twice before.

Chris

@clebin

clebin wrote:
Quote:

@MikeB By comparison, the prediction of a PS3 seems rather poor and not worthy of trawling through your own posts to find "told you so" self-quotes.

Actually he does seem to find it quite worthy of such.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 30-Aug-2009 at 08:51 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 30-Aug-2009 at 08:48 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200