@BrianK

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GoW2's Enhanced Defn mode is " 640x448 resolution"

That's a lot of vertical resolution for a PS2 game.

Vertical resolution matters most with regard to human perception.

@MikeB

http://thoughthead.com/89

Notice the true 1080p games on that list all have limited environments or are 2D-ish.

@Lou

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Lou wrote: @MikeB http://thoughthead.com/89 Notice the true 1080p games on that list all have limited environments or are 2D-ish.

One of MikeB's past criticisms of the 360 was that the native resolution of games was not HD. If I recall correctly Halo3 was one he strongly jumped on about this activity. (None the less it sold like pancakes and was enjoyed by many.)

I'm not sure why but MikeB's post seem to indicate that the PS2 didn't do this same sort of thing. Certainly the PS2 and PS3 both render games below their output resolution. With the advent of 3D I think this will be even more common for the PS3 as graphics take a bit of a hit for moving to 3D.

Having both systems one can see there are tradeoffs. The PS3 games seem to rely less often on AA and accept more jaggies. (This is in general certainly some games do go the other way.) Rendering at a slightly lower resolution and adding AA does make the game look better. Saying it's '1080p' doesn't mean it must look better. Resolution is but an aspect of the overall graphics.

Last edited by BrianK on 18-Jun-2010 at 05:08 PM.

Michael Jackson the Game Sweet! Something a dance pad would be nice for. Something I'd be interested in that the Kinect should do a more natural approach for than the Move or the WM+.

@BrianK

Quote:

One of MikeB's past criticisms of the 360 was that the native resolution of games was not HD. If I recall correctly Halo3 was one he strongly jumped on about this activity.

Halo 3 was a high profile, high budget XBox 360 exclusive, sub-HD and lacking anti-aliasing. Perfect material to counter all those XBox 360 fanboy attacks on 3rd party ports to the PS3.

Understand?

But seriously, I still don't understand what makes Halo 3 so special, you already said Halo doesn't really sport impressive graphics, IMO the campaign is too short and repetitive (did you get the feeling the campaign required skill?) and for the fun (but not special) multi-player you have to pay extra (as well as your friends).

Is it nostalgia or something or is it the weird story? I would like to know.

You called me a Halo hater, but I am not. I said it is a good game, but why would this be considered a great game?

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Understand?

Similar with regard to Alan Wake, XBox 360 fans (and other people on this forum) attacked the development times of early PS3 games. That's one exclusive game which has been under development for a very long time, more so than Too Human. Too human didn't live up to expectations, Alan Wake does but is rendering in SubHD significantly more so than Halo 3. I think Remedy are excellent developers, but it's perfect food for countering the fanboy attacks.

On the other hand Sony seems to be pumping out sequels to those early showpiece titles at a fast rate. Uncharted 2 was done only 2 years after Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and last year won by far the most awards in many different categories. Killzone 2 another showpiece title released last year is getting a sequel which again is a eye catcher in only 2 years. Such games including God of War 3 are the most impressive games you can currently find on a console and thus they are also great for counter examples of fanboy claims PS3 games need harddrive installs, as they play without harddrive installation and God of War 3, Uncharted 2 can play seamlessly without loading screens from start to finish and soon Killzone 3 as well.

Understand?

@BrianK

Regarding Kinect there are lots of comments floating around, a lot of fuss about this:

"Right now, Kinect only works when you stand. This includes menu navigation. All the cool options to grab a slider and advance through frames of a movie you are watching only work when you are on your feet."

If true I they are further behind with development than I thought. (let allone the MIA Milo stuff). What's your perspective on this?

New shooter for Kinect:

http://i46.tinypic.com/345hug4.jpg

I'm speechless... The future of gaming?

Last edited by MikeB on 18-Jun-2010 at 08:46 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 18-Jun-2010 at 08:45 PM.

CVG says Hideo Kojima has a "massive PS3 exclusive" to unveil at Tokyo Game Show.

This may be getting a bit over the top, the amount of high profile PS3 games being pumped out. Too many mustplay games already...

@MikeB

You possed question on why Halo is a great game?
First let me start off by saying everyone is different. How you rate something great is not the same as how the guy next to you does it.

Was a Halo3 great? It's the fastest selling entertainment item within 24 hours. Various places have awarded it it's share of awards such as IGN, and Time. And though you hate the graphics the Visual Effects Society awarded the game the best Real Time Visuals in a video game.

Each Halo introduced something new and did it good. Halo1 brought the right controller layout to consoles. It also brought 16 player LAN parting to consoles. Halo2 were the strong online multiplayer it brought to consoles. Halo3 brought the forge and it's strong ability to self construct maps. Things other games may have done in the past but simply weren't as successful at it.

HALO3 great? IMO what made it great was all the good. I can't think of anything it does badly. One thing it did good, if not great, was the social aspect of the game. Today we see Facebook and Twitter and how important the Social Media is to people. Halo2 and Halo3 were supported strongly by Bungie in many blogs and online forums. Certainly the strong Social that Bungie drove was a plus to the game. Gamers feel cared for when they are able to have a conversation with the developer direct.

Again to each their own. For another media example. Avatar is the best selling movie ever. It's not anywhere near great, IMO.

And no Halo3 isn't a great way to criticize the 360. There's a very large number of people that love this game. This often will put the 'opposition' into immediate defense mode. And since so many love the game the poster is viewed as clueless. (Even if they are prefectly right.) If you really want to continue the discussion it's a bad idea to do things which will be seen as offensive to the other party.

Perhaps something you can pick up from Halo3 is the reduced resolution is due to it's double framebuffering. Something I suspect will be repeated in the 3D gaming areas.


Kinect only working when one is standing? Various demos showed people sitting on the couch driving, video chatting, and using a Zune media interface. Microsoft said it'll be changing the Zune interface such that the Kinect will work with it. I'm doubtful you'll have to stand up to fast forward a video, such as you indicate. Once it's released we'll see what the truth is.

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: CVG says Hideo Kojima has a "massive PS3 exclusive" to unveil at Tokyo Game Show. This may be getting a bit over the top, the amount of high profile PS3 games being pumped out. Too many mustplay games already...

Grow up and stopping baiting. If you continue you will be on your permanent vacation. I let you slide on the name calling already once. If you can't treat this conversation with respect then bow out of it like an adult.

_________________
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@fairlanefastback

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Grow up and stopping baiting. If you continue you will be on your permanent vacation. I let you slide on the name calling already once. If you can't treat this conversation with respect then bow out of it like an adult.

I submitted an abuse report, let's see if the system works or not...

I don't understand what's wrong with you, nor the harmless opinion I shared in that posting...

@BrianK

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I'm doubtful you'll have to stand up to fast forward a video, such as you indicate. Once it's released we'll see what the truth is.

Can't imagine they are going to release without this being fixed for public release.

I think it may be better for Microsoft to start a Natal2 project, maybe for their next console. Make it faster and throw away the controller-less hype and instead allow a navigator with trigger, analo stick and some buttons to be used in combination.

@Lou

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Does Move even have rumble?

I already said it does, but for more technical details here's a tech interview by Digital Foundry regarding playstation Move.

"Battery life is about 10 hours when it's fully charged and obviously that changes depending on how much rumble is happening, how bright the light is; the light adjusts to the room lighting. It charges from USB and we've just announced the charger. It's pretty cool... Move snaps in, standing up. "

Some other stuff I said but you and BrianK may like conformation on from the developers:

"On the CPU, one of the SPUs does a little more work to track the other controllers."

"And it's not necessary. You can always use the DualShock instead of the sub-controller."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-playstation-move-tech-interview

@ BrianK

A Microsoft spokesperson has confirmed to Kotagu body tracking / gesture control while sitting for media control function currently does not work with Kinect.

So these reports are indeed correct.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Jun-2010 at 07:09 PM.

According to Engadget the new XBox 360 isn't much quieter than the old XBox, still a lot more noisier than common PS3s.

I also didn't realize that on all older XBox 360 models Kinect requires its own external power supply!

Lots of cabling involved for hardcore gamers using the original XBox 360, external Wi-Fi adapter with Wi-Fi cable, XBox 360 external power supply, Kinect external power supply, rigid AV cable / component cables (no HDMI), HD DVD usb to xbox cable, external power supply for HD DVD drive, external cooling unit, etc. I would love to see a picture of such a hardcore XBox fan setup!

@MikeB

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Can't imagine they are going to release without this being fixed for public release.

Assuming it is not working I agree. Though even if not working and it works prior to the Nov release then I really don't see a problem.

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I think it may be better for Microsoft to start a Natal2 project, maybe for their next console. Make it faster and throw away the controller-less hype and instead allow a navigator with trigger, analo stick and some buttons to be used in combination.

Do you always count your chickens before they're hatched. I know you believe the copied WiiMote of the PS3 will be the win. But, it hasn't sold any yet. Why don't you let the two new controllers at least launch?

@MikeB

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Lots of cabling involved for hardcore gamers using the original Xbox 360

Yup and the 'hardcore' gamer more then likely has even more cabling involved in their system. For example a minimum of 11 wires for 5.1 surround. This 'hardcore' gamer more often then not also has a TV stand. Any self respecting Tech Enthusiast takes pride in cable routing and move ability.

My TV stand has power in, ethernet in, and speakers out. Everything else is self contained within the chassis. TV, DVD, Computer, PS3, Receiver, 360, Wireless router, and HD DVD player. Oh and the center speaker too. The Kinect with 2 extra plugs will fit in the stand. Nothing for anyone to see.

While we all appreciate the deep concern you have for 1 extra power plug... If that's your major problem in life when then my friend enjoy it!

@BrianK

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Do you always count your chickens before they're hatched. I know you believe the copied WiiMote of the PS3 will be the win. But, it hasn't sold any yet. Why don't you let the two new controllers at least launch?

Sales will be dependent on a lot of factors, I think most importantly marketing (especially for the US) and provided information/misinformation.

My recommendation more regards the usefulness of the device and the end user experience. For example MSDOS was very popular in the past for all the wrong reasons. Although the market has improved a lot since then as more and better information can much more easily be provided (internet vs salemen of the past).

@BrianK

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Any self respecting Tech Enthusiast takes pride in cable routing and move ability.

I very much doubt that, certainly I would like to keep my livingroom slick and tidy. I would rather be ashamed.

For a hobby room this may be less important, I can imagine it being cool having 3 PS3s connected and working on some advanced science project in such a setup.

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While we all appreciate the deep concern you have for 1 extra power plug... If that's your major problem in life when then my friend enjoy it!

Finding something funny isn't exactly the same as feeling "deep concern" you know?

I do think the new XBox is a step in the right direction, the huge external power supply is now less huge, a bit more quiet, Wi-Fi built-in, HDMI connection built-in, nicer PS3-like boxing and hopefully it will be more sturdy as well.

@MikeB

On the new 360 250GB model's new sound it is slightly less. Here's one test . The unit saw a 5dB drop, fairly good. Certainly still not PS3 level which is about 10dB queiter still. Nor at the Wii level which is even quieter than the PS3.

BTW - Microsoft should come up with a clever name for this unit. They are just calling it the 360. I suppose it makes sense since it is now the only unit being produced. Slim makes no sense it's not really slim. Perhaps short? I like the 'StealhXbox' that some have been using.

I don't know if the new 360 will be more sturdy. How are you measuring this? Typically a curve is a stronger structure than a square. Though placing weights on a curve is tricker as it requires more even balancing of the object. Under what weight does your PS3 collapse?